F Charlie Stramel - Michigan State University, NCAA (2023, 21st, MIN)

[kyle44]

and had breakout seasons in the season after being drafted.

I wouldn't necessarily call this seasons performance a breakout for Heidt. He had 97 points as a 17-year old last year, which is a top-10 season points wise by a U-18 player in the WHL in the last 25 years. Its more of a natural progression after putting up ~100 points at 17.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

If you find a good 3C in the 20’s of a draft you did fine. Most late first round picks will be literal who’s or depth players in 5-10 years

 

[WarriorofTime]

4th liners don't score 4 points in 2 games.

Dinosaur coaches who stuff their lineup with super seniors and demote players they chose to play through injury do make bad decisions though, and shouldn't be used for appeal's to authority.

You are upthread bragging about not caring about NCAA Hockey, so you don't understand what you're talking about. "Dinosaur" coaches don't take teams that finished dead last a season ago and in their first year transform them into a top 10 team in the country. You keep saying "well I don't care about Wisconsin!" and you keep stubbornly imposing your ignorance regarding "super seniors" because you are clueless as to how American hockey functions.

It's very simple, Stramel was demoted because he was playing poorly. Not because the coach is a "dinosaur". If Stramel continues to play well, he will be given more ice time, just like how he earned his way onto the powerplay this past weekend. However, if his play regresses or he doesn't show more consistency, he will likely stay demoted. Hastings job is to win games, not to develop Charlie Stramel to the detriment of the team. Developing Charlie Stramel and helping him on his way to the NHL is in pursuit of his ultimate goal to win games. The better Stramel is, the better Wisconsin is this year and the more it will help future recruiting to bring in high quality talented players that are eager to make the NHL.

You can cling to your fantasies that Stramel is an Adam Fantilli tier prospect but Fantilli was able to step into college hockey, like Stramel as a late birthday 04 that turned 18 in his Freshman season, and he was the best player on his team, and in fact the best player in the country judging by the Hobey Baker.. and he was doing it on a team that was good enough to make the Frozen Four. This is what you love to see out of a big prospect, they are able to play a top line role clearly surpassing the older players with lower ceilings on their team and around the League, while being able to do so for a team that enjoys a lot of team success. This is what every Coach hopes they are getting when they recruit a big teen NHL prospect.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

You are upthread bragging about not caring about NCAA Hockey, so you don't understand what you're talking about. "Dinosaur" coaches don't take teams that finished dead last a season ago and in their first year transform them into a top 10 team in the country. You keep saying "well I don't care about Wisconsin!" and you keep stubbornly imposing your ignorance regarding "super seniors" because you are clueless as to how American hockey functions.

It's very simple, Stramel was demoted because he was playing poorly. Not because the coach is a "dinosaur". If Stramel continues to play well, he will be given more ice time, just like how he earned his way onto the powerplay this past weekend. However, if his play regresses or he doesn't show more consistency, he will likely stay demoted. Hastings job is to win games, not to develop Charlie Stramel to the detriment of the team. Developing Charlie Stramel and helping him on his way to the NHL is in pursuit of his ultimate goal to win games. The better Stramel is, the better Wisconsin is this year and the more it will help future recruiting to bring in high quality talented players that are eager to make the NHL.

You can cling to your fantasies that Stramel is an Adam Fantilli tier prospect but Fantilli was able to step into college hockey, like Stramel as a late birthday 04 that turned 18 in his Freshman season, and he was the best player on his team, and in fact the best player in the country judging by the Hobey Baker.. and he was doing it on a team that was good enough to make the Frozen Four. This is what you love to see out of a big prospect, they are able to play a top line role clearly surpassing the older players with lower ceilings on their team and around the League, while being able to do so for a team that enjoys a lot of team success. This is what every Coach hopes they are getting when they recruit a big teen NHL prospect.

Won’t take anything you say seriously until you either find what you claimed I said or admit you were wrong that I didn’t say it. All too typical on this website.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Won’t take anything you say seriously until you either find what you claimed I said or admit you were wrong that I didn’t say it. All too typical on this website.

Lol what a copout.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

Some quotes from Judd Brackett on him in the recent athletic article:

“He’s not a different player than what we saw before,” Brackett said. “You’re still talking 6-foot-3, 215 pounds, can skate, physical, plays the game with an edge. Is he producing points right now? No, but I don’t necessarily think that point-producing is what Charlie’s game’s going to be about. That’s not how it’s going to be defined.

“Is he playing in straight lines? Is he getting pucks to the net? Is he hard to play against? Is he drawing penalties? Is he combative? Is he winning faceoffs? That’s a lot of what we see and have seen in him, but at the same time, we want to see him take a step forward. Last year was a hard year and it was an introduction to college hockey for him, so we want to see progress.”

Russo and Smith: Wild keeping faith in Charlie Stramel, but Judd Brackett says, 'We want to see progress'Russo and Smith: Wild keeping faith in Charlie Stramel, but Judd Brackett says, ‘We want to see progress’

 

[57special]

Well, i am hoping that last weekend wasn't a mirage, and that he continues to find his scoring game in college.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Some quotes from Judd Brackett on him in the recent athletic article:

“He’s not a different player than what we saw before,” Brackett said. “You’re still talking 6-foot-3, 215 pounds, can skate, physical, plays the game with an edge. Is he producing points right now? No, but I don’t necessarily think that point-producing is what Charlie’s game’s going to be about. That’s not how it’s going to be defined.

“Is he playing in straight lines? Is he getting pucks to the net? Is he hard to play against? Is he drawing penalties? Is he combative? Is he winning faceoffs? That’s a lot of what we see and have seen in him, but at the same time, we want to see him take a step forward. Last year was a hard year and it was an introduction to college hockey for him, so we want to see progress.”

Russo and Smith: Wild keeping faith in Charlie Stramel, but Judd Brackett says, 'We want to see progress'Russo and Smith: Wild keeping faith in Charlie Stramel, but Judd Brackett says, ‘We want to see progress’

This is a good take, and the bolded is I think the key about this player that a certain poster seems to be overlooking. Stramel wasn't drafted to be a scoring center. But that doesn't mean he can't be a helpful NHL player. I had him 35th in my final ranking, so while taking him at 21 was a bit of a reach, I didn't hate the pick, except for the fact that Musty and Brindley were still on the board (especially Brindley). Overlooking Cristall, Perreault, and Sawchyn also hurt, but they each have some question marks which I could understand Minnesota wanting to avoid.

Still, they could have done worse with the pick, as I do think they will get an NHL center out of him.

 

[OilersFanatics505]

4th liners don't score 4 points in 2 games.

Dinosaur coaches who stuff their lineup with super seniors and demote players they chose to play through injury do make bad decisions though, and shouldn't be used for appeal's to authority.

It’s comments like this that make me think the internet was a mistake.

 

[MNRube]

It’s comments like this that make me think the internet was a mistake.

Pride is a hell of a drug

 

[AKL]

I just want to point out that Connor Dewar, an actual 4th liner in the NHL, had a 4 point game and a hat trick like a week or two ago.

4th liners don't score 4 points in 2 games.

Loving the juxtaposition of these two posts being back to back in this thread

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Loving the juxtaposition of these two posts being back to back in this thread

How many fourth liners are there in the NHL and how many of them have a recent stretch of 4 points in 2 games? Find the answer.

Just because you can point to one outlier doesn't at all prove my point wrong. If you want to prove it wrong that there are a lot and it's actually very common, go ahead. I'm waiting.

What's actually sad is that you (and some other Wild fans) are essentially rooting against the player your team picked a few months ago (a hometown player) because you read some articles on Dobber or the Athletic and are convinced that you've drafted a bust three months into his D+1. Pretty sad.

 

[Saga of the Elk]

How many fourth liners are there in the NHL and how many of them have a recent stretch of 4 points in 2 games? Find the answer.

Just because you can point to one outlier doesn't at all prove my point wrong. If you want to prove it wrong that there are a lot and it's actually very common, go ahead. I'm waiting.

What's actually sad is that you (and some other Wild fans) are essentially rooting against the player your team picked a few months ago (a hometown player) because you read some articles on Dobber or the Athletic and are convinced that you've drafted a bust three months into his D+1. Pretty sad.

What I'm seeing is disappointment at reaching (by consensus ranks) for a player based on his height, not his upside. I'm happy to wait and be proven wrong but comparing him to Backes, who was a point per game player as a freshman, just shows that he's not a top prospect.

I've watched college hockey my whole life. There are guys like Eichel, Kariya, Heatley and Caufield who have star power from day 1 ... there are guys like Hull, Oshie, Perunovich, Pionk who come to show what they can do.... there are guys who develop even more slowly... and then there's a Stramel who was underwhelming as a freshman and seems ok as a sophomore, except now he has the twin burdens of being picked too high and playing on a better team. Time will tell, but nobody's rooting against the player, they're rooting against the pick made by a drunk GM in a deep draft.

A poor man's Kevin Hayes might still be a serviceable player (and ergo a defensible pick at the spot), but hardly one you tune in to watch.

 

[AKL]

How many fourth liners are there in the NHL and how many of them have a recent stretch of 4 points in 2 games? Find the answer.

Just because you can point to one outlier doesn't at all prove my point wrong. If you want to prove it wrong that there are a lot and it's actually very common, go ahead. I'm waiting.

What's actually sad is that you (and some other Wild fans) are essentially rooting against the player your team picked a few months ago (a hometown player) because you read some articles on Dobber or the Athletic and are convinced that you've drafted a bust three months into his D+1. Pretty sad.

Why is it that every time you're proven wrong, you respond with a 1) deflection, 2) straw man, or 3) both?

Your "point" that 4th liners don't score 4 points in 2 games? But that is wrong because we have situations we can point to and see that it does happen. It's not like Stramel is scoring 4 points every weekend. With those 4 points this last weekend taken out, he has one singular point in the other 10 games. But he has a good weekend and suddenly we need to take the two games more seriously than the other 10?

You did this last season too, from the looks of it. You called out a single weekend, or 2 game stretch, where he had 3 points and said "see guys, he's heating up now", and if you take that weekend out too he had 9 points in the other 31 games.

I get that you like Stramel but this is embarrassing. He is not producing or standing out in college, he is in fact performing like a bottom six player, but you're clinging to this idea that he's some offensive weapon that his coach is just refusing to use for some reason (two coaches now, for that matter)? Because he did okay with the USNTDP a couple years ago? How many guys are good at one level and then fall off when they move up? It happens all the time. It's currently happening with Stramel.

No one's cheering against Stramel, we're just not f***ing blind. I would love for him to become the player you think he is someday, but unlike you, I'm looking at reality, not my hopes and dreams, to judge what this player is right now.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

What I'm seeing is disappointment at reaching (by consensus ranks) for a player based on his height, not his upside. I'm happy to wait and be proven wrong but comparing him to Backes, who was a point per game player as a freshman, just shows that he's not a top prospect.

I've watched college hockey my whole life. There are guys like Eichel, Kariya, Heatley and Caufield who have star power from day 1 ... there are guys like Hull, Oshie, Perunovich, Pionk who come to show what they can do.... there are guys who develop even more slowly... and then there's a Stramel who was underwhelming as a freshman and seems ok as a sophomore, except now he has the twin burdens of being picked too high and playing on a better team. Time will tell, but nobody's rooting against the player, they're rooting against the pick made by a drunk GM in a deep draft.

A poor man's Kevin Hayes might still be a serviceable player (and ergo a defensible pick at the spot), but hardly one you tune in to watch.

Backes also wasn't thrown onto the fourth line. No one can produce in that situation. Some players get into bad situations where a team misuses them. I think it's illogical to not have a measured view, especially considering in this situation the player was injured and the coach had him playing injured only to demote him for playing poorly through an injury. If your expectations were that he'd be winning the Hobey Baker this year or stepping into the NHL lineup after a year, that's unrealistic for the 21st pick. More likely, it's 2-3 years before thinking about the NHL, year by year progression. There are ups and downs with almost all players before they reach the NHL. Doesn't help if they are injured and misused. If they are just playing bad, that's a lot worse. Clearly not this situation.

 

[AKL]

Backes also wasn't thrown onto the fourth line. No one can produce in that situation.

He was thrown onto the fourth line because he wasn't producing, how is that hard to understand?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Why is it that every time you're proven wrong, you respond with a 1) deflection, 2) straw man, or 3) both?

Your "point" that 4th liners don't score 4 points in 2 games? But that is wrong because we have situations we can point to and see that it does happen. It's not like Stramel is scoring 4 points every weekend. With those 4 points this last weekend taken out, he has one singular point in the other 10 games. But he has a good weekend and suddenly we need to take the two games more seriously than the other 10?

You did this last season too, from the looks of it. You called out a single weekend, or 2 game stretch, where he had 3 points and said "see guys, he's heating up now", and if you take that weekend out too he had 9 points in the other 31 games.

I get that you like Stramel but this is embarrassing. He is not producing or standing out in college, he is in fact performing like a bottom six player, but you're clinging to this idea that he's some offensive weapon that his coach is just refusing to use for some reason (two coaches now, for that matter)? Because he did okay with the USNTDP a couple years ago? How many guys are good at one level and then fall off when they move up? It happens all the time. It's currently happening with Stramel.

No one's cheering against Stramel, we're just not f***ing blind. I would love for him to become the player you think he is someday, but unlike you, I'm looking at reality, not my hopes and dreams, to judge what this player is right now.

Thanks for the five paragraph non-answer. You thought you had a wise remark, but when asked to prove the validity of what you were trying to suggest, you can't.

 

[AKL]

Thanks for the five paragraph non-answer. You thought you had a wise remark, but when asked to prove the validity of what you were trying to suggest, you can't.

I'm taking after you, I'm not going to spend my time finding you every fourth liner who has had 4 points in a 2 game stretch because you'll just find another way to deflect or straw man that post too, like you always do.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

He was thrown onto the fourth line because he wasn't producing, how is that hard to understand?

This is what I mean when I say his team's own fans are rooting for him to fail.

You deliberately remove all the context because that helps your agenda against Guerin or something.

He was playing through an injury and also missed time. Who plays well through an injury? Weren't Wild fans saying Kaprizov was struggling because he might be injured? But we can't extend that to Stramel because that'd be a point in favor of Guerin? Crazy.

 

[AKL]

This is what I mean when I say his team's own fans are rooting for him to fail.

You deliberately remove all the context because that helps your agenda against Guerin or something.

He was playing through an injury and also missed time. Who plays well through an injury? Weren't Wild fans saying Kaprizov was struggling because he might be injured? But we can't extend that to Stramel because that'd be a point in favor of Guerin? Crazy.

Straw man

 

[AKL]

but nobody's rooting against the player, they're rooting against the pick made by a drunk GM in a deep draft.

I'm not rooting against anything here. I think Guerin is an idiot, I don't think he's a competent GM, and I think Stramel was a reach.

But if Stramel was playing like he was worthy of that pick, it wouldn't be an issue. I didn't like the Wallstedt pick at the time because I don't like taking goalies that early, but Wallstedt came out and performed, and exceeded expectations, and now I will happily admit I'm good with the pick, and I love Wallstedt. Had Stramel done the same, he would be treated the same. I want Stramel to succeed because it helps my team be better, but I'm not going to sit here and say ludicrous things like "4th liners don't score 4 points in 2 games" to try to make myself feel better about an underwhelming pick continuing to be underwhelming.

The reality of the situation is that many people thought Stramel was a bad pick at the time, and he's done nothing to change their minds. That doesn't mean anyone's cheering against anything.

 

[Breakers]

He was thrown onto the fourth line because he wasn't producing, how is that hard to understand?

He had a headshot against Michigan State that was the final straw for Hastings
Wisconsin had all momentum to start a period, and he took a head shot against a guy that had NOTHING to do with the play, wasnt an energy play or hard forecheck. Just one of those penalties that everybody rolls their eyes at, like dude this is a big game in a huge weekend series.
just ruined all momentum in a big game

was benched then put on the 4th line.
so not producing and just plays like that.

 

[Saga of the Elk]

Backes also wasn't thrown onto the fourth line. No one can produce in that situation. Some players get into bad situations where a team misuses them. I think it's illogical to not have a measured view, especially considering in this situation the player was injured and the coach had him playing injured only to demote him for playing poorly through an injury. If your expectations were that he'd be winning the Hobey Baker this year or stepping into the NHL lineup after a year, that's unrealistic for the 21st pick. More likely, it's 2-3 years before thinking about the NHL, year by year progression. There are ups and downs with almost all players before they reach the NHL. Doesn't help if they are injured and misused. If they are just playing bad, that's a lot worse. Clearly not this situation.

now I see why nobody likes your posts

 

[OilersFanatics505]

How many fourth liners are there in the NHL and how many of them have a recent stretch of 4 points in 2 games? Find the answer.

Just because you can point to one outlier doesn't at all prove my point wrong. If you want to prove it wrong that there are a lot and it's actually very common, go ahead. I'm waiting.

What's actually sad is that you (and some other Wild fans) are essentially rooting against the player your team picked a few months ago (a hometown player) because you read some articles on Dobber or the Athletic and are convinced that you've drafted a bust three months into his D+1. Pretty sad.

“Just because you can point to one outlier” so Stramel can’t possibly be an outlier?

 

[OilersFanatics505]

Fact: Stramel is on pace for 13.75 points this year after a “monster weekend”. Let’s round up to 14 for arguments sake. Assuming 33 games played like last year.

Fact: last year in 33 games, Stramel had 12 points. Is an additional 2 points really that big of a leap forward to justify this kinda definitive “we’ll see who’s laughing in 5 years” kinda remarks?