Prospect Info: Everything Swedish

[Gniwder]

I don't sell him short, i just see any point to sign Gelinas to play 10 games(?) after the TDL. Lashoff, McIlrath, Hicketts, Cholowski and maybe even McIsaac if he gets healthy can play those games as well as Gelinas would. And Seth Barton 3rd round pick from 2018 draft starts his 3rd year in college, maybe Yzerman signs him. Then Barton migh get the taste. Olausson had +900 games under his belt when he came to Detroit, he wasn't really a wildcard signing.

WHat does Lashoff, McIlrath, and Hicketts have to offer? They aren't NHL players, whereas Gelinas might be 3rd pair level. Plus it give Seider a partner with NHL experience that he's already familiar with. Basically a 10 game tryout.

Kinda funny that people are arguing that he's trash, and we have one person worried that he won;t clear waivers... could just have Holland sign him then claim him on waivers since the WIngs will be at the bottom of teh standings.

The way I see it, he'd be a one or two year fill in since Nemeth, Merril, Staal, and Biega are UFA after the season. I would much rather have Gelinas than Biega, especially since the team has enough righties and Biega is weak.

Plus he'd be cheap and the contact could be buried if necessary. Even as a 7D, he's a better option than what the team has now.

 

[SirloinUB]

What’s with the Gelinas infatuation? Why him?

he is dime a dozen player and there are plenty of equal or better options of we need a dman, which isn’t very likely anyway.

 

[MBH]

What’s with the Gelinas infatuation? Why him?

he is dime a dozen player and there are plenty of equal or better options of we need a dman, which isn’t very likely anyway.

Gelinas is interesting. But who cares.
You know who else is interesting?
Nolan Zajac.
This guy is trying every which way to get noticed.
Had a solid collegiate career. Goes to the ECHL and tears it up. Gets a cup of coffee in the AHL, scoring 1G and 4A in 11 games for three different teams has he's loaned around like an old book.
Goes back to the ECHL and has another good season.
Still can't get a look.
Goes to Sweden's second league and has a nice season.
Goes to Norway's pro league and kills it - 2nd in scoring.
Now he's in Sweden's top league and his 5-8-13 through 14 games and leads all SHL defensemen in goals and points.

Should Detroit sign him? No. But I'm rooting for this guy based on nothing but his crazy career path.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Gelinas is interesting. But who cares.
You know who else is interesting?
Nolan Zajac.
This guy is trying every which way to get noticed.
Had a solid collegiate career. Goes to the ECHL and tears it up. Gets a cup of coffee in the AHL, scoring 1G and 4A in 11 games for three different teams has he's loaned around like an old book.
Goes back to the ECHL and has another good season.
Still can't get a look.
Goes to Sweden's second league and has a nice season.
Goes to Norway's pro league and kills it - 2nd in scoring.
Now he's in Sweden's top league and his 5-8-13 through 14 games and leads all SHL defensemen in goals and points.

Should Detroit sign him? No. But I'm rooting for this guy based on nothing but his crazy career path.

Well...I'd give that guy a tryout. He's got Brian Rafalski vibes going on.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Well...I'd give that guy a tryout. He's got Brian Rafalski vibes going on.

Why has he bounced around so much?

 

[Henkka]

Gelinas is interesting. But who cares.
You know who else is interesting?
Nolan Zajac.

Now he's in Sweden's top league and his 5-8-13 through 14 games and leads all SHL defensemen in goals and points.

Should Detroit sign him? No. But I'm rooting for this guy based on nothing but his crazy career path.

That guy (Zajac) is not so good defensively.

But Gelinas was already before Seider arrived.

Think I'm the only guy in here, who noticed it before and others are just after Seider-hype.

 

[Oddbob]

People need to pump the brakes on NA players who do well in Europe. European league have lots of great AHL players who go over and do very well, but aren't ood enough for the NHL. Don't underestimate how big a jump the Euro leagues to NHL is, as it is big. Even looking at KHL vs AHL, there are quite a few guys who have similar stats in both leagues, which suggests to me that they aren't that far apart from each other in quality of competition. I think the KHL is better, but I don't think it is some gargantuan leap between the two.

 

[SantosHalper]

Who did say that Gelinas should jump in after the deadline?

He is mostly summer move after expansion draft, if there's any move.

We have DeKeyser and Stecher signed past 2021 (other could be lost on expansion), and Seider and Hronek obviously on the team. But there's no skill defenceman on left side (even if Merril extended, or McIsaac takes a role, guys are defensive), and that makes Gelinas an interesting option.

That chemistry with Seider would definitely help, he could get some jump for his career, when riding with Seider, and then Yzerman will trade Gelinas for a pick. Free asset, thank you. That's the only meaning in this whole scenario. Gelinas could be at Red Wings for few years, until Wallinder and other kid lefties are ready to jump in.

Sign a free asset - Drive the price up - and sell him.

Same thing what has happened with Fabbri. Just repeat these scenarios continuously.

My mistake, there was someone other who said that, and got the impression you are onboard with that:

I wouldn't be surprised if they bring Gelinas in after the SHL season is over along with Seider.

But my mistake, you didn't say that. Im glad you made this clear, i stand corrected. But still i find it hard to believe that 2021 UFA markets are so dry, that 30-year old, former 2nd round pick, who hasn't played in NHL, for 4 years is best we can hope.... Come on....

There is going to be actual NHL players available, better free assets to trade for. Yzerman just signed Merrill and Stecher for peanuts, im pretty sure he can pull that rabbit out of his hat again. And theres haven't been any skill on the left side since Kronwall retired, and i have feeling that there won't be any until the kids graduates. If they sign Gelinas to play in GRG, i have no problem he seems like perfect man for a job. Good AHL depth defenseman.

WHat does Lashoff, McIlrath, and Hicketts have to offer? They aren't NHL players, whereas Gelinas might be 3rd pair level. Plus it give Seider a partner with NHL experience that he's already familiar with. Basically a 10 game tryout.
.

My point exactly, they don't have anything to offer in a long run, and Gelinas is just the same, good AHL depth defenseman. Gelinas hasn't played in NHL for 4 years, and he's nearly 30 years old. He has reach his ceiling, Gelinas can still have good career in Europe but has no future in NHL. Gelinas is still signed for a 1 more year in Rögle. So it's definitely seems like he doesn't have lot of one-way deal offers on the table. And those AHL salary checks are quite light compared the ones in Sweden. And Seider doesn't need anyone to hold his hand, he can create chemistry with anyone.

And the way i see 2021-2022 defence, 2 open spots to be filled with actual NHL players. Not with players whos been labelled as a bust in NHL level. Now Gelinas is more welcome to join Grand Rapids.
DeKeyser-Hronek
X-Seider
X-Stecher
Lindström

 

[Oddbob]

My mistake, there was someone other who said that, and got the impression you are onboard with that:



But my mistake, you didn't say that. Im glad you made this clear, i stand corrected. But still i find it hard to believe that 2021 UFA markets are so dry, that 30-year old, former 2nd round pick, who hasn't played in NHL, for 4 years is best we can hope.... Come on....

There is going to be actual NHL players available, better free assets to trade for. Yzerman just signed Merrill and Stecher for peanuts, im pretty sure he can pull that rabbit out of his hat again. And theres haven't been any skill on the left side since Kronwall retired, and i have feeling that there won't be any until the kids graduates. If they sign Gelinas to play in GRG, i have no problem he seems like perfect man for a job. Good AHL depth defenseman.



My point exactly, they don't have anything to offer in a long run, and Gelinas is just the same, good AHL depth defenseman. Gelinas hasn't played in NHL for 4 years, and he's nearly 30 years old. He has reach his ceiling, Gelinas can still have good career in Europe but has no future in NHL. Gelinas is still signed for a 1 more year in Rögle. So it's definitely seems like he doesn't have lot of one-way deal offers on the table. And those AHL salary checks are quite light compared the ones in Sweden. And Seider doesn't need anyone to hold his hand, he can create chemistry with anyone.

And the way i see 2021-2022 defence, 2 open spots to be filled with actual NHL players. Not with players whos been labelled as a bust in NHL level. Now Gelinas is more welcome to join Grand Rapids.
DeKeyser-Hronek
X-Seider
X-Stecher
Lindström

No offence, but if Dekeyser is our Top LD in 2021-2022 that is not good news for us trying to compete or being better. Dekeyser is a passable NHL defender and on most teams he would be 5-6 at best. He is only Top 4 on our team and maybe a few other bad teams. He is just so average at most things, and poor at certain things.

 

[Winger98]

And the way i see 2021-2022 defence, 2 open spots to be filled with actual NHL players. Not with players whos been labelled as a bust in NHL level. Now Gelinas is more welcome to join Grand Rapids.
DeKeyser-Hronek
X-Seider
X-Stecher
Lindström

Sliding a guy like Hanifin into that second spot would go a long way in making that blueline decent.

 

[lilidk]

People need to pump the brakes on NA players who do well in Europe. European league have lots of great AHL players who go over and do very well, but aren't ood enough for the NHL. Don't underestimate how big a jump the Euro leagues to NHL is, as it is big. Even looking at KHL vs AHL, there are quite a few guys who have similar stats in both leagues, which suggests to me that they aren't that far apart from each other in quality of competition. I think the KHL is better, but I don't think it is some gargantuan leap between the two.

But still we are talking about 19-20 years olds , kids who going to be better and better

 

[Pavels Dog]

No offence, but if Dekeyser is our Top LD in 2021-2022 that is not good news for us trying to compete or being better. Dekeyser is a passable NHL defender and on most teams he would be 5-6 at best. He is only Top 4 on our team and maybe a few other bad teams. He is just so average at most things, and poor at certain things.

Strong disagree and I actually hope he gets the chance to stick around for a bit and slide into his natural level of a 2nd pairing D so people can appreciate him again.

Asked to carry a top pairing with zero backup on a horrible team.. yeah, he's not that caliber of D (elite, franchise D), but he's not a #5-6 either. That's a Madison Bowey or Brian Lashoff, or in the best case a Nemeth (career high of 15 points).
In my eyes, Dekeyser's injury was one of the core reasons the floor fell out for our team last season. He's been logging 21+ minutes the last few seasons, staying on the + side and putting up a decent amount of points (24 in his last 60 games).

 

[TCNorthstars]

Strong disagree and I actually hope he gets the chance to stick around for a bit and slide into his natural level of a 2nd pairing D so people can appreciate him again.

Asked to carry a top pairing with zero backup on a horrible team.. yeah, he's not that caliber of D (elite, franchise D), but he's not a #5-6 either. That's a Madison Bowey or Brian Lashoff, or in the best case a Nemeth (career high of 15 points).
In my eyes, Dekeyser's injury was one of the core reasons the floor fell out for our team last season. He's been logging 21+ minutes the last few seasons, staying on the + side and putting up a decent amount of points (24 in his last 60 games).

Excellent post. DDK gets bashed for the same reason Ericsson got bashed. Asked to play top pair when they aren't top pair guys. Dekeyser is a good 2nd pairing guy on almost any team. And I totally agree if Dekeyser was healthy last season wouldn't have been abysmal.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Excellent post. DDK gets bashed for the same reason Ericsson got bashed. Asked to play top pair when they aren't top pair guys. Dekeyser is a good 2nd pairing guy on almost any team. And I totally agree if Dekeyser was healthy last season wouldn't have been abysmal.

And Ericsson was at least playing 2nd fiddle on the top pairing, with a pretty legit #1 guy next to him. Dekeyser has had... what? Certainly no legit #1 caliber D.

 

[19 for president]

Yeah DDK was definitely a top 4 dman, not evaluating that now until he plays as he is coming off pretty major surgery. DDK is a minute munching guy, not particularly great at anything but he eats up minutes.

We really do need at least 1 LD better than him though.

 

[Oddbob]

Well you guys keep overrating Dekeyser because he is the best of bad bunch, meanwhile I wish for much better blueliners than him on our team, especially at 5 Mil.

 

[lomekian]

Well you guys keep overrating Dekeyser because he is the best of bad bunch, meanwhile I wish for much better blueliners than him on our team, especially at 5 Mil.

When DDK is fit and playing well, he's worth is paycheck.
Unfortunately there have been too many times where at least one of those things isn't true. In the same way that Ericsson at his best was a good 2nd pair D. Sadly injuries and related loss of confidence reduced him to being a 5-7 guy for the last few seasons.
Detroit's problem since Lidstrom and Rafalski left was never having more than 1 or 2 genuine top 6 D playing at their optimum level at a time. There was always at least two playing above their level and at least two playing injured.

 

[TCNorthstars]

Well you guys keep overrating Dekeyser because he is the best of bad bunch, meanwhile I wish for much better blueliners than him on our team, especially at 5 Mil.

Tied for the 55th highest cap hit among defensemen. Not bad at all for a 2nd pairing guy. Would be better if he could stay healthy for sure. But again, he is slotted in to the #1 LD. Of course you want a better player than him at that spot. That would mean actually getting a first pair left d! Dekeyser would better slot in that second pair LD where he should be. You are underrating him for being forced to play on the top pair where he isn't suited.

 

[ridilon]

Tied for the 55th highest cap hit among defensemen. Not bad at all for a 2nd pairing guy. Would be better if he could stay healthy for sure. But again, he is slotted in to the #1 LD. Of course you want a better player than him at that spot. That would mean actually getting a first pair left d! Dekeyser would better slot in that second pair LD where he should be. You are underrating him for being forced to play on the top pair where he isn't suited.

There are 62 (about to be 64) top pair D-men. Tied for 55 puts him in the top pair salary. And he's been making $5M for a while now.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

There are 62 (about to be 64) top pair D-men. Tied for 55 puts him in the top pair salary. And he's been making $5M for a while now.

I read an article earlier this year (with all kinds of advanced stats examples, year over year etc.) where it showed DDK is worth $4.3-$4.4M. He's over paid by 500-600K & has been Kenny signed him...he should've never been paid more than Kronwall ($4.75m), while Kronner was on the team.

 

[SantosHalper]

No offence, but if Dekeyser is our Top LD in 2021-2022 that is not good news for us trying to compete or being better. Dekeyser is a passable NHL defender and on most teams he would be 5-6 at best. He is only Top 4 on our team and maybe a few other bad teams. He is just so average at most things, and poor at certain things.

Only time will, how good DDK is going to be in 2021-2022. Right now he is only NHL caliber LHD signed to play for 2 more years, that's why he is in the 1st pair in that line up. And of course it's also going to depend a lot who Yzerman is able sign or acquire via trade.

 

[TCNorthstars]

There are 62 (about to be 64) top pair D-men. Tied for 55 puts him in the top pair salary. And he's been making $5M for a while now.

Then it is a good thing he plays on the top pair then, isn't it!

 

[ShippinItDaily]

Gelinas is interesting. But who cares.
You know who else is interesting?
Nolan Zajac.
This guy is trying every which way to get noticed.
Had a solid collegiate career. Goes to the ECHL and tears it up. Gets a cup of coffee in the AHL, scoring 1G and 4A in 11 games for three different teams has he's loaned around like an old book.
Goes back to the ECHL and has another good season.
Still can't get a look.
Goes to Sweden's second league and has a nice season.
Goes to Norway's pro league and kills it - 2nd in scoring.
Now he's in Sweden's top league and his 5-8-13 through 14 games and leads all SHL defensemen in goals and points.

Should Detroit sign him? No. But I'm rooting for this guy based on nothing but his crazy career path.

I think, as much as anything, this demonstrates the limitations in the classic stats and the challenges of players who do not have a lot of draft capital attached to them to produce in the AHL, where playing time decisions are strongly dictated by a parent club.

I think that the production is often a lot higher for players who go to Europe because those teams are trying to find the players that are most ready to help them win now. Many leagues have relegation challenges and so they don't have the luxury of time to allow players to come along slowly. When their young players do "develop" significantly, they end up going to the AHL or the NHL anyways.

This production concept applies to the NHL as well. William Karlsson didn't just magically become a great player. He took advantage of an opportunity that was not provided to him in another situation and gelled very well with 2 other players who had career years at the same time.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Well you guys keep overrating Dekeyser because he is the best of bad bunch, meanwhile I wish for much better blueliners than him on our team, especially at 5 Mil.

Keep wishing really hard and maybe one will materialize.

I think absolutely no one is overrating Dekeyser in any significant way. We've seen him when he was able to be our #3D and that's the best our defensive group has looked since Lidstrom left. That's the last time we won a playoff series btw.
Maybe now he has declined a bit, #4 is probably more accurate. But it's meaningless until we can actually find better D-men to play instead. And money ain't the issue. Dekeyser could be paying to play for the Wings and we still wouldn't be able to sign a legit top pairing LD very easily.

 

[ricky0034]

Strong disagree and I actually hope he gets the chance to stick around for a bit and slide into his natural level of a 2nd pairing D so people can appreciate him again.

Asked to carry a top pairing with zero backup on a horrible team.. yeah, he's not that caliber of D (elite, franchise D), but he's not a #5-6 either. That's a Madison Bowey or Brian Lashoff, or in the best case a Nemeth (career high of 15 points).
In my eyes, Dekeyser's injury was one of the core reasons the floor fell out for our team last season. He's been logging 21+ minutes the last few seasons, staying on the + side and putting up a decent amount of points (24 in his last 60 games).

calling Brian Lashoff a #5-6 is just as ridiculous if not more as calling DeKeyser one(just in a different way)