Player Discussion Evan Bouchard

[Tobias Kahun]

McDrai aren't the only 2 good players in the NHL. Also, you seem clueless of Bouchards stats pre-draft

The sentiment that he's only good on the Oilers is just plain stupidity

He’d be so confused if he saw Hedmans stats with and away from kucherov

 

[guymez]

Let's not get it twisted.

I think Bouchard has a good chance at some top 5 votes. I don't think he's going to get any 1st place votes(if that's what you mean by "Norris contending Norris votes") unless some Edmonton homers or analytics guys go all-in.

Again...the only thing that seperates Bouchards offence from Ekholms offence is the PP.
Ekholm by every metric (and visually) is a better defender than Bouchard.

Barrie put up some good analytics when he was here as well and he was also a PP point king.
Not Norris worthy IMO.

How will the voters vote regarding Bouchard...we shall see.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

McDrai aren't the only 2 good players in the NHL. Also, you seem clueless of Bouchards stats pre-draft

The sentiment that he's only good on the Oilers is just plain stupidity

Dude chill. By hyped I mean like 7-10 points. I Know all about his days in London and I know that Holland would have drafted him if Zadina was off the board

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Again...the only thing that seperates Bouchards offence from Ekholms offence is the PP.
Ekholm by every metric (and visually) is a better defender than Bouchard.

Barrie put up some good analytics when he was here as well and he was also a PP point king.
Not Norris worhty IMO.

How will the voters vote regarding Bouchard...we shall see.

Barrie’s analytics never came close to what Bouchard is doing

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

Again...the only thing that seperates Bouchards offence from Ekholms offence is the PP.
Ekholm by every metric (and visually) is a better defender than Bouchard.

Barrie put up some good analytics when he was here as well and he was also a PP point king.
Not Norris worhty IMO.

How will the voters vote regarding Bouchard...we shall see.

And WHERE is Barrie today??????

THE PRESS BOX.

Did posters on here hype up Barrie to be a top 20 defensman when he played here?!?!

 

[Tobias Kahun]

And WHERE is Barrie today??????

THE PRESS BOX.

Did posters on here hype up Barrie to be a top 20 defensman when he played here?!?!

Bouchard is miles better than Barrie was defensively

So because Barrie isn’t very good anymore, that must mean Bouchard sucks too?

 

[guymez]

And WHERE is Barrie today??????

THE PRESS BOX.

Did posters on here hype up Barrie to be a top 20 defensman when he played here?!?!

I do remember some posters claiming the the PP would take a step back without Barrie.
It didnt.
Might have a little something to do with McDavid and Draisaitl.

Not to say that Bouchard hasnt done a great job on the PP...he absolutely has.
Its just that when you have the worlds 2 greatest talents on the PP it tends to strongly influence things (open up ice...etc).

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

I do remember some posters claiming the the PP would take a step back without Barrie.
It didnt.
Might have something to do with McDavid and Draisaitl.

so you think Ceci could put up similar Bouchard PP points then? since it's all Drai and McDavid?

 

[guymez]

so you think Ceci could put up similar Bouchard PP points then? since it's all Drai and McDavid?

See my edit.

 

[McDNicks17]

Again...the only thing that seperates Bouchards offence from Ekholms offence is the PP.
Ekholm by every metric (and visually) is a better defender than Bouchard.

Barrie put up some good analytics when he was here as well and he was also a PP point king.
Not Norris worthy IMO.

How will the voters vote regarding Bouchard...we shall see.

That only thing is 35 points haha.

Again, I'm not sure why you're making the argument that the PP doesn't matter when it's been proven very obviously that it's a huge factor in Norris voting.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

I do remember some posters claiming the the PP would take a step back without Barrie.
It didnt.
Might have a little something to do with McDavid and Draisaitl.

Not to say that Bouchard hasnt done a great job on the PP...he absolutely has.
Its just that when you have the worlds 2 greatest talents on the PP it tends to strongly influence things (open up ice...etc).

I’d argue RNH is more important than Bouchard also, he plays a more crucial role than people realize on the powerplay.

 

[guymez]

That only thing is 35 points haha.

Again, I'm not sure why you're making the argument that the PP doesn't matter when it's been proven very obviously that it's a huge factor in Norris voting.

I never said that the PP doesnt matter.
Show me where I said that.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

He’d be so confused if he saw Hedmans stats with and away from kucherov

Funny thing bud is Hedman put up 49 points last year while nursing an injury and not being on the PP with kucherov. That was Sergachev

I'm done with this argument because you guys are being delusional. I never said Bouchard is bad. He is a good player. I said he needs to stop his bone head turnovers. The intelligent posters here have acknowledged this.

I'm trying to humble you guys by saying he is not a top 10 defenceman in the NHL. He isn't even the best on the team.

Do you guys just argue whoever you want in life for no reason?

 

[AM]

Bouchard was worse than Nurse yesterday. Every time Bouchard has the puck I cringe/panic. I just pray he doesn't make a stupid turnover

Coffee was exactly the same when he was younger. He got better.

 

[guymez]

I’d argue RNH is more important than Bouchard also, he plays a more crucial role than people realize on the powerplay.

Okay...finally something we can agree on.
RNH is indeed important to the PP.
He should absolutely get more credit for that.

 

[McDNicks17]

I never said that the PP doesnt matter.
Show me where I said that.

Pretty tough to interpret it any other way. Why else do you keep saying "the only thing separating Bouchard and Ekholm's points is PP points" like it's something that shouldn't be acknowledged?

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

See my edit.

so it wouldn't matter if we had Hughes, Makar, Karlsson, Pronger...McDavid and Draisaitl will always influence numbers?

 

[guymez]

Pretty tough to interpret it any other way. Why else do you keep saying "the only thing separating Bouchard and Ekholm's points is PP points" like it's something that shouldn't be acknowledged?

What I am suggesting is that on this particular PP (one of the best in the League) why should PP points be a determining factor for Norris voting?
Especially when it was one of the best in the League prior to Bouchard being the point man.
Barrie put up massive points on the PP as well. His analytics were good too...why no Norris consideration?

so it wouldn't matter if we had Hughes, Makar, Karlsson, Pronger...McDavid and Draisaitl will always influence numbers?

What?

 

[Hockeylife2018]

Again...the only thing that seperates Bouchards offence from Ekholms offence is the PP.
Ekholm by every metric (and visually) is a better defender than Bouchard.

Barrie put up some good analytics when he was here as well and he was also a PP point king.
Not Norris worthy IMO.

How will the voters vote regarding Bouchard...we shall see.

As we seen last year, the only stats that matters in Norris voting these days seems to be total points

They really really need to split the trophy into best offensive and best overall defenceman

 

[McDNicks17]

What I am suggesting is that on this particular PP (one of the best in the League) why should PP points be a determining factor for Norris voting?
Especially when it was one of the best in the League prior to Bouchard being the point man.

That sounds like an issue with you disagreeing with how people vote on the Norris.

PP points have always mattered. People brought up Barrie's 20-21 year. Guess where the Norris winner and runner-ups(Fox, Hedman and Makar) ended up in PP scoring that year? 1st, T2nd and 4th.

Some writer from Pittsburgh or Florida isn't going to look back and compare how Bouchard and Barrie did on the PP. They're going to look at points and vote for him.

 

[guymez]

As we seen last year, the only stats that matters in Norris voting these days seems to be total points

They really really need to split the trophy into best offensive and best overall defenceman

The Norris is supposed to be awarded to the best overall defenceman.
The wording IIRC is the greatest all around ability in the position.

That sounds like an issue with you disagreeing with how people vote on the Norris.

PP points have always mattered. People brought up Barrie's 20-21 year. Guess where the Norris winner and runner-ups(Fox, Hedman and Makar) ended up in PP scoring that year? 1st, T2nd and 4th.

Some writer from Pittsburgh or Florida isn't going to look back and compare how Bouchard and Barrie did on the PP. They're going to look at points and vote for him.

Come on.
You know what I am saying here.
Its pretty clear that Bouchards offence is driven by the best PP in the NHL.
The very same PP that Barrie used to load up his point toals.

Again I ask...why wasnt Barrie consdiered a Norris candidate?

 

[Hockeylife2018]

The Norris is supposed to be awarded to the best overall defenceman.
The wording IIRC is the greatest all around ability in the position.

Agreed, but is there a single person that if they could create an all star line to defend a 1 goal lead with 1 minute left in the game, would have current Norris trophy winner karlsson on the ice?

 

[McDNicks17]

Come on.
You know what I am saying here.
Its pretty clear that Bouchards offence is driven by the best PP in the NHL.
The very same PP that Barrie used to load up his point toals.

Again I ask...why wasnt Barrie consdiered a Norris candidate?

Like I said, you've got your Oilers goggles on. The Oilers aren't the only team in the league with a good PP. Tampa has a great PP, New York has a great PP, Colorado has a great PP. Vancouver has a good PP. Guys that lead the league in PP points tend to play on good PPs.

Barrie played less, had significantly worse defensive metrics and didn't score anything close to Bouchard at 5v5. Just to illustrate the difference in metrics, Barrie was 160th in xGF% for defenseman that year. Bouchard is 1st this year.

 

[Fourier]

And WHERE is Barrie today??????

THE PRESS BOX.

Did posters on here hype up Barrie to be a top 20 defensman when he played here?!?!

Much of this discussion is about the Norris trophy not some absolute ranking of defensemen. The voting for the Norris is highly skewed towards a combination of offensive statistics and other things like possession stats because many people who vote on the awards may have very little opportunity to watch the players outside their home region. Regardless of how he is viewed Bouchard is having an elite year in terms of both his offensive production and his defensive metrics. While Barrie did lead the league in points by a defenseman, he was never close to elite in any other metric while with Edmonton.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Come on.
You know what I am saying here.
Its pretty clear that Bouchards offence is driven by the best PP in the NHL.
The very same PP that Barrie used to load up his point toals.

Again I ask...why wasnt Barrie consdiered a Norris candidate?

cause he never had close to 80 points, despite playing on the best PP in the league