Player Discussion Evan Bouchard

[McDNicks17]

Let's be honest, if there was a best all-around and best offensive award, the PHWA writers wouldn't have any idea who to pick for the former, so it would just be the same guy winning both.

 

[Aerchon]

He's not even the Oilers best D man .

So if Bouchard is a top 5 d in this league. You'd take him in the playoffs over Q. Hughes, Makar, Josi, Heiskanen, Mcavoy?

He is the best Oilers offensive defenseman and the top 3 in the league... We can go round and round this again again...

Let me put it this way.

As good Ekholm obviously is, who is more likely to win the Norris him or Bouchard?

NHL Norris Trophy Odds, Favorites & Predictions for 2023-24

Discover the up-to-date NHL Norris Trophy betting odds & predictions. Our experts examine the favorites & analyze futures bets for the 2023-24 award.

www.si.com

Edit: I said the argument for Bouchard being in the top 5/10 is better than arguing he is isn't and a quick internet search pretty much confirms this. General Norris voting/odds confirms it.

2023-24 Norris Trophy Tracker: March Update - The Hockey Writers Top 10 Lists Latest News, Analysis & More

The Norris Trophy still seems to be Quinn Hughes trophy to lose, but Cale Makar and a few other defensemen will give him competition.

thehockeywriters.com

Have a read on this one. Has him at #2 in the league...

Proving my point with a crap ton of hockey pundits was even easier than I thoght it would be.

Mic drop. Moving on.

 

[VainGretzky]

Some more Bouchard stats all defenceman
On ice GF 1st (104)
On ice PP GF 1st (56)
Takeaways 5th (55)
ON Ice even strength GA 30th Makar is 22nd
He is so underrated

 

[Broberg Speed]

He is the best Oilers offensive defenseman and the top 3 in the league... We can go round and round this again again...

Let me put it this way.

As good Ekholm obviously is, who is more likely to win the Norris him or Bouchard?

NHL Norris Trophy Odds, Favorites & Predictions for 2023-24

Discover the up-to-date NHL Norris Trophy betting odds & predictions. Our experts examine the favorites & analyze futures bets for the 2023-24 award.

www.si.com

Edit: I said the argument for Bouchard being in the top 5/10 is better than arguing he is isn't and a quick internet search pretty much confirms this. General Norris voting/odds confirms it.

Whose more likely to help you win a Stanley cup? When Colorado won their last cup they were so loaded they would have won even if they didn't have Makar playing a single game.

And as deep as that Colorado team was Vegas played as such a cohesive unit during last years Stanley Cup drive they probably take out that Colorado championship team from the previous year.

We got stomped on by both.

That's just the way it is.

 

[VainGretzky]

Whose more likely to help you win a Stanley cup? When Colorado won their last cup they were so loaded they would have won even if they didn't have Makar playing a single game.

And as deep as that Colorado team was Vegas played as such a cohesive unit during last years Stanley Cup drive they probably take out that Colorado championship team from the previous year.

We got stomped on by both.

That's just the way it is.

And their rosters have had big changes as well as the Oilers lol , do a better argument

 

[Ol' Jase]

Whose more likely to help you win a Stanley cup? When Colorado won their last cup they were so loaded they would have won even if they didn't have Makar playing a single game.

And as deep as that Colorado team was Vegas played as such a cohesive unit during last years Stanley Cup drive they probably take out that Colorado championship team from the previous year.

We got stomped on by both.

That's just the way it is.

Wait, your argument is that Colorado won have won the Cup without the Conn Smythe winner even playing?

Holy shit. Lol.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Wait, your argument is that Colorado won have won the Cup without the Conn Smythe winner even playing?

Holy shit. Lol.

He just edge lerd shit posting, he's not serious about anything

 

[Broberg Speed]

Wait, your argument is that Colorado won have won the Cup without the Conn Smythe winner even playing?

Holy shit. Lol.

Colorado was a Bettman special as was Vegas.

Cale Makar deserves his trophies but he's not the most impactful defenceman in the league. He's the best offensive attacking defenseman in the league. He's no Chris Pronger. He's no Victor Hedman. He's no Scott Niedermayer. He's no Nicklas Lidstrom. He's no Drew Doughty. He's no Chris Chelios. You get the point.

Quinn Hughes is a tiny little shit floating in the toilet bowl. He's not going to be the center piece that wins Vancouver a Stanley Cup.

That's just the way it is.

 

[Broberg Speed]

And their rosters have had big changes as well as the Oilers lol , do a better argument

This is a misinterpretation.

I want the Oilers to win the Stanley Cup but they'll only do that on the back of systems play with every member of the team on board. Much like Vegas last year. The question is, "do the Oilers have a group with enough character to achieve this?"

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

He is the best Oilers offensive defenseman and the top 3 in the league... We can go round and round this again again...

Let me put it this way.

As good Ekholm obviously is, who is more likely to win the Norris him or Bouchard?

NHL Norris Trophy Odds, Favorites & Predictions for 2023-24

Discover the up-to-date NHL Norris Trophy betting odds & predictions. Our experts examine the favorites & analyze futures bets for the 2023-24 award.

www.si.com

Edit: I said the argument for Bouchard being in the top 5/10 is better than arguing he is isn't and a quick internet search pretty much confirms this. General Norris voting/odds confirms it.

2023-24 Norris Trophy Tracker: March Update - The Hockey Writers Top 10 Lists Latest News, Analysis & More

The Norris Trophy still seems to be Quinn Hughes trophy to lose, but Cale Makar and a few other defensemen will give him competition.

thehockeywriters.com

Have a read on this one. Has him at #2 in the league...

Proving my point with a crap ton of hockey pundits was even easier than I thoght it would be.

Mic drop. Moving on.

Stop the Norris discussion. I literally told you Bouchard is more likely to win the Norris. He will be 4th or 5th on all ballots. I never once said he wouldn't get consideration.

I'm defending my stance that he isn't a top 10 defensemen in the NHL and that Ekholm is more important to the Oilers in the Playoffs. I'm fighting back against the Oilers fans who think Bouchard is the same player as Hughes, Makar, Josi.

I like Bouchard, but lets be realistic

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Stop the Norris discussion. I literally told you Bouchard is more likely to win the Norris. He will be 4th or 5th on all ballots. I never once said he wouldn't get consideration.

I'm defending my stance that he isn't a top 10 defensemen in the NHL and that Ekholm is more important to the Oilers in the Playoffs. I'm fighting back against the Oilers fans who think Bouchard is the same player as Hughes, Makar, Josi.

I like Bouchard, but lets be realistic

Find one poster that says he’s on the level of those guys.

You’re fighting some argument that isn’t even there.

 

[Fourier]

I started the discussion by saying he has to stop his brain dead turnovers. Then people said he's on Makar and Hughes level (which he isn't) then I guess you guys directed the conversation to Norris Voting.

Bouchard will come in at 4th or 5th in Norris Voting and we already know this so who cares. Waste of discussion.

We should care about Stanley cups, not dumb awards

He is a good offensive D man who needs to stop turning the puck over and making stupid plays

Fair enough. I probably jumped into the middle of the discussion. though frankly I don't know of any defenseman who pushes the envelop offensively does not make "stupid plays". It really is a matter of the balance between good and bad. This year the good has far out weighed the bad.

 

[Fourier]

Whose more likely to help you win a Stanley cup? When Colorado won their last cup they were so loaded they would have won even if they didn't have Makar playing a single game.

And as deep as that Colorado team was Vegas played as such a cohesive unit during last years Stanley Cup drive they probably take out that Colorado championship team from the previous year.

We got stomped on by both.

That's just the way it is.

I completely disagree on Avs vs Vegas. The Vegas series last year could have easily gone the other way. If your team leads in every game and is up and controlling the game going into the second half of game 5 your team definitely did not get stomped. That Avs team was just a lot better.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Fair enough. I probably jumped into the middle of the discussion. though frankly I don't know of any defenseman who pushes the envelop offensively does not make "stupid plays". It really is a matter of the balance between good and bad. This year the good has far out weighed the bad.

I see this in soccer as well. Kevin De Bruyne is probably the best attacking midfielders of his generation. I've seen him say that when he makes mistakes he does them again and again and again until he gets it right. This is called taking chances and being unpredictable. This is what great players do that sets them apart from meat and potatoes players. Do we crap on McDavid for going 1 on 2 or 3 or even 4 when he busts through and scores? Name me 1 hockey coach that would preach that to his players? Bouchard makes some risky plays but that's part of being the player that he is. He's been cleaning up his play in his own end so at least there's the willingness to do so which is huge.

 

[Broberg Speed]

Fair enough. I probably jumped into the middle of the discussion. though frankly I don't know of any defenseman who pushes the envelop offensively does not make "stupid plays". It really is a matter of the balance between good and bad. This year the good has far out weighed the bad.

"Stupid plays", can you beat the great teams or win a Stanley Cup while making them in a 7 game series?

I completely disagree on Avs vs Vegas. The Vegas series last year could have easily gone the other way. If your team leads in every game and is up and controlling the game going into the second half of game 5 your team definitely did not get stomped. That Avs team was just a lot better.

You have the democratic right to be wrong. Colorado was loaded, they could outscore their mistakes against the likes of the Oilers, but a talent loaded team that plays a fantastic defensive system, like Vegas, will win in today's NHL.

Hopefully we can emulate Vegas.

 

[Fourier]

"Stupid plays", can you beat the great teams or win a Stanley Cup while making them?

You have the democratic right to be wrong. Colorado was loaded, they could outscore their mistakes against the likes of the Oilers, but a talent loaded team that plays a fantastic defensive system, like Vegas, will win in today's NHL.

Hopefully we can emulate Vegas.

Again, I watched the 80's Oilers. That team took risks and traded chances. They won because their risks paid off far more than they failed. In the playoffs you take fewer risks and at the right times. But in the end it still comes down to the balance between success and failure.

As to the Vegas series do you honestly think that if Skinner had a series like Hill did and vice versa that the result would have been the same? If your answer is no then your argument is pretty much dead in the water. If it is yes, I think we may well have watched a different series.

Vegas had one line that did almost all the damage vs the Oilers. The Eichel/Marchesault line outscored the Oilers 8-1 5vs 5. despite only a modest advantage in scoring chances. They had an 18+% sh% 5 vs 5 which is insanely high. When neither player was on the ice the Oilers outscored the Knights 5 vs 5 with a significant advantage in scoring chances and overall play. The rest of the team had a 5 vs 5 sh% of 8.1%. Hill simply bailed the Knights out far more often than the Oiler's goalies did.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Perhaps there should be a catagory for the best offensive dman and a separate catagory for the best all around dman.
Just like what @Hockeylife2018 suggested.

That might be better.

In any event there has been too much time spent on this topic for me anyway. The good thing is that the more I talk about it the more I realize that I dont really care.

Ultimately (the more I think about this) if Bouchard becomes a legit Norris candidate or not...does it really matter?
From a team perspective it only matters (if he were to win) because it influences how much cap space Bouchard ends up taking up. It becomes contract negotiation leverage.
So in terms of the Cap winning an indivdual award in some cases ultimately becomes a negative anyway.

Regarding any other individual awards....

If Connor wins the Art Ross...fine.
If he doesnt....thats fine too.
If Desharnais wins the Masterton trophy...good for him. If he doesnt...oh well.
If Bouchard gets some Norris votes...fine. If he doesnt thats fine too.
Looking back I dont really care about Skinner getting some Calder consideration.

I mean in the grand scheme of things (in terms of what really matters with this team) why do we care so much about this?
Its a question I have recently (thanks to this discussion) come to a conclusion on.
I dont really give a shit.

The players on this team can win as many indivudual awards as they want and it really doesnt mean anything.
A Stanley Cup is all I really care about...the rest is window dressing.

I agree that would be better. If a guy does both then he's likely a generational guy. A defenseman Art Ross, Rocket Richard, etc. would also be pretty cool IMO.

Awards IMO are great because I wasn't a fan when the Boys on the Bus were shredding the league and they were winning them left, right and center. That said it often times raises the player's price tag unless their name is Darnell Nurse because reasons!

At the end of the day I too care more about the cup because we need to may hay now while we have Connor and Leon under contract. There's no telling how things will unfold after this season. If they both walk we may never see the cup lifted in Edmonton again during our lifetimes.

 

[Broberg Speed]

Again, I watched the 80's Oilers. That team took risks and traded chances. They won because their risks paid off far more than they failed. In the playoffs you take fewer risks and at the right times. But in the end it still comes down to the balance between success and failure.

As to the Vegas series do you honestly think that if Skinner had a series like Hill did and vice versa that the result would have been the same? If your answer is no then your argument is pretty much dead in the water. If it is yes, I think we may well have watched a different series.

Vegas had one line that did almost all the damage vs the Oilers. The Eichel/Marchesault line outscored the Oilers 8-1 5vs 5. despite only a modest advantage in scoring chances. They had an 18+% sh% 5 vs 5 which is insanely high. When neither player was on the ice the Oilers outscored the Knights 5 vs 5 with a significant advantage in scoring chances and overall play. Hill simply bailed the Knights out far more often than the Oiler's goalies did.

The Oilers were schooled badly playing against Vegas. I don't know if it was greater part humiliation or demoralization. We were out coached by a magnitude of one thousand. It was nothing like the Colorado series where we got steamrolled by a team with superior depth.

I'm all about the systems. If you don't play a good system and you don't have "vastly superior depth" you don't stand a chance. The team playing the better system, or more appropriate system against a particular opponent, defeats the other team even if they have better depth. Character goes a long way too.

I believe in the flow of a game. I agree with you, you can take chances when it's the right time to take a chance. If you win it all you can look back and say you took chances at the right time. You make one mistake at the wrong time and you're finished.

Look back at Bouchard's complete works including his mistakes. Can you say he took chances at the right time? Not so far.

 

[Oilhawks]

Find one poster that says he’s on the level of those guys.

You’re fighting some argument that isn’t even there.

Dude is fighting windmills

 

[On The Prowl]

He is an impressive offensive player who has some obvious shortcomings defensively, what is most exciting about him is the possibility that he actually could become more well-rounded in the future as he puts on more strength and experience. Who really knows how good he can become if he masters the other side of the puck.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Vegas is a Bettman special? Dod anyone let Vegas know that, as they got royally hosed on 3 playoffs before their cup.

Statements like that and statements like Col wins a cup without Makar highlight how out of touch with common sense someone can be

 

[Giggleplex]

He's 4th on the team and 6th amongst all NHL d-men in +/- with +31 (!), so he's got to be at least pretty good defensively already.

 

[Aerchon]

Stop the Norris discussion. I literally told you Bouchard is more likely to win the Norris. He will be 4th or 5th on all ballots. I never once said he wouldn't get consideration.

I'm defending my stance that he isn't a top 10 defensemen in the NHL and that Ekholm is more important to the Oilers in the Playoffs. I'm fighting back against the Oilers fans who think Bouchard is the same player as Hughes, Makar, Josi.

I like Bouchard, but lets be realistic

I'm not sure anyone is saying Bouchard is the same. But. He of course is absolutely in the same grouping of young inconsistent offensive defenseman. Makar was clearly better last year. Hughes obviously this year. Overall both those 2 likely to be better most years... but there are good reasons Bouchard is going to be a top 5 Norris Ballot...

His offensive is 4th to none and his defense better than credited. Overall he is a young superstar defenseman.

I'm not even sure how many are really even saying definitively he is a top 10 defenseman.

I also thought most are saying Ekholm is more important to the club...

defense is hard to accurately quantify. The default is to stat watch. Bouchards stats are sick.

I've lost track of who is who in this thread. I see some vastly underratting Bouchard and both stats and eye should show he deserves to be considered a young brilliant star in the league.

As for where exactly. Who cares. He would significantly help every single team in the NHL by joining their roster. His positive impact is massive over his defensive brain farts. There isn't a GM in the league that wouldn't push hard to get Bouchard on their team. Especially at the price he is currently at.

 

[McDoused]

Even though Bouchard and Ekholm together are one of the best pairings in the league, I don't think either will win the Norris. When you look at Fox, Makar and Hughes they all have decent partners but are clearly better than their partner. Ekholm and Bouchard compliment each other so well that both look like #1 Dmen but it doesn't help with voting.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

Find one poster that says he’s on the level of those guys.

You’re fighting some argument that isn’t even there.

- Jimmy Mcjenkins


"He's absolutely playing the level of those players. It's reality"

" Bouchard is right there with those guys. He gets less credit because those guys have done it before"