Player Discussion Evan Bouchard

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

I'm not sure anyone is saying Bouchard is the same. But. He of course is absolutely in the same grouping of young inconsistent offensive defenseman. Makar was clearly better last year. Hughes obviously this year. Overall both those 2 likely to be better most years... but there are good reasons Bouchard is going to be a top 5 Norris Ballot...

His offensive is 4th to none and his defense better than credited. Overall he is a young superstar defenseman.

I'm not even sure how many are really even saying definitively he is a top 10 defenseman.

I also thought most are saying Ekholm is more important to the club...

defense is hard to accurately quantify. The default is to stat watch. Bouchards stats are sick.

I've lost track of who is who in this thread. I see some vastly underratting Bouchard and both stats and eye should show he deserves to be considered a young brilliant star in the league.

As for where exactly. Who cares. He would significantly help every single team in the NHL by joining their roster. His positive impact is massive over his defensive brain farts. There isn't a GM in the league that wouldn't push hard to get Bouchard on their team. Especially at the price he is currently at.

I was just defending myself from Jimmy who was attacking me on multiple threads saying Bouchard was a top 5 D in the NHL. Defending myself from people who say they would rather have Bouchard than Hedman in this years playoffs.

I was playing the other side because with the mistakes and blunders he makes the Bouchard love was getting out of hand.

You are correct that most posters are being reasonable about Bouchard. He will be 4th/5th in Norris voting and good for him

 

[Tobias Kahun]

I was just defending myself from Jimmy who was attacking me on multiple threads saying Bouchard was a top 5 D in the NHL. Defending myself from people who say they would rather have Bouchard than Hedman in this years playoffs.

I was playing the other side because with the mistakes and blunders he makes the Bouchard love was getting out of hand.

You are correct that most posters are being reasonable about Bouchard. He will be 4th/5th in Norris voting and good for him

Yeah, how dare oilers be excited about this budding superstar.

For someone who watches more hockey than most allegedly, you’d know Hedman has been shit defensively for more than a year.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

Yeah, how dare oilers be excited about this budding superstar.

For someone who watches more hockey than most allegedly, you’d know Hedman has been shit defensively for more than a year.

Last year he was hurt. Also the Bolts don't really give a rats about the regular season.

 

[Broberg Speed]

Vegas is a Bettman special? Dod anyone let Vegas know that, as they got royally hosed on 3 playoffs before their cup.

Statements like that and statements like Col wins a cup without Makar highlight how out of touch with common sense someone can be

bobby was up all night with his R2-D2 roleplay
beep-beep-boop-boop-beep-boop
that's one frisky little droid

Yeah, how dare oilers be excited about this budding superstar.

For someone who watches more hockey than most allegedly, you’d know Hedman has been shit defensively for more than a year.

If the Oilers had Victor Hedman they'd also have multiple cups. They'd win another one this season.

 

[Stoneman89]

bobby was up all night with his R2-D2 roleplay
beep-beep-boop-boop-beep-boop
that's one frisky little droid



If the Oilers had Victor Hedman they'd also have multiple cups. They'd win another one this season.

Yup, and if grandpa had tits he'd be my grandma. And if we had Bobby Orr and Marty Brodeur in their primes we'd win multiple cups. Not sure what you're point is.

 

[Broberg Speed]

Yup, and if grandpa had tits he'd be my grandma. And if we had Bobby Orr and Marty Brodeur in their primes we'd win multiple cups. Not sure what you're point is.

Someone was insinuating they'd prefer Bouchard over Hedman.

Pronger was one of the best defensemen of all time. Hedman is better. That's perspective.

I wanted to end the the latest cult ridiculousness in the bud.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Someone was insinuating they'd prefer Bouchard over Hedman.

Pronger was one of the best defensemen of all time. Hedman is better. That's perspective.

I wanted to end the the latest cult ridiculousness in the bud.

I would take Pronger in his prime over Hedman in his.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Someone was insinuating they'd prefer Bouchard over Hedman.

Pronger was one of the best defensemen of all time. Hedman is better. That's perspective.

I wanted to end the the latest cult ridiculousness in the bud.

lol no, pronger is way better than Hedman

 

[Aerchon]

Someone was insinuating they'd prefer Bouchard over Hedman.

Pronger was one of the best defensemen of all time. Hedman is better. That's perspective.

I wanted to end the the latest cult ridiculousness in the bud.

You need to read the honorable mention and who is #2 and why. Not saying I agree but, year to year players can vastly over or under perform...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://thehockeywriters.com/2023-24-norris-trophy-tracker/&ved=2ahUKEwixgZ7gibSFAxX8weYEHcSNBJsQFnoECA4QAQ&sqi=2&usg=AOvVaw3-jXN0PZ51FwmmawkOsRLQ

 

[Goose]

Came to this thread as I saw he is leading defensemen in Corsi and Fenwick across the league and is 4th overall (McDavid 5th.)

Advanced stats, blah blah, I know, but still impressive.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

Came to this thread as I saw he is leading defensemen in Corsi and Fenwick across the league and is 4th overall (McDavid 5th.)

Advanced stats, blah blah, I know, but still impressive.

I shows the potential is there.

The best test is how players play in the playoffs when the intensity is ramped up

 

[Broberg Speed]

Came to this thread as I saw he is leading defensemen in Corsi and Fenwick across the league and is 4th overall (McDavid 5th.)

Advanced stats, blah blah, I know, but still impressive.

the thing with advanced stats is variables aren't taken into consideration

 

[Donner]

Came to this thread as I saw he is leading defensemen in Corsi and Fenwick across the league and is 4th overall (McDavid 5th.)

Advanced stats, blah blah, I know, but still impressive.

Unfortuantly he is going to fall into the Oscar Klefbom issue. Hell have great underlying stats, but hell make 1 glaring mistake per game that will be burned into fans minds and theyll come away from the game remembering that big mistake

The 20 smaller, largely unremarakable great players he makes that impact the game way more positively than the 1 mistake, won't be rembered

You can see it play out in every GDT and the same thing happened with Klefbom. There would be 5 great breakout passes or N zone plays that resulted in positive results for the Oilers, crickets in GDT. But the moment there is one mistake where Bouchard/Klefbom are isolated and the "main" contributor, the pitchforks are out and this will be talked about ad nasaum.

 

[McDNicks17]

Unfortuantly he is going to fall into the Oscar Klefbom issue. Hell have great underlying stats, but hell make 1 glaring mistake per game that will be burned into fans minds and theyll come away from the game remembering that big mistake

The 20 smaller, largely unremarakable great players he makes that impact the game way more positively than the 1 mistake, won't be rembered

You can see it play out in every GDT and the same thing happened with Klefbom. There would be 5 great breakout passes or N zone plays that resulted in positive results for the Oilers, crickets in GDT. But the moment there is one mistake where Bouchard/Klefbom are isolated and the "main" contributor, the pitchforks are out and this will be talked about ad nasaum.

That's been happening for as long as I can remember. It's happening with Nurse(he deserves it a bit more now than in years past). It happened with Petry. Poti was before my time as an Oilers fan, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's what happened with him. I've even seen old-timers say it happened with Coffey.

I remember some posters legitimately thought Smid was carrying the Smid-Petry pairing because he made less mistakes meanwhile Petry had about twenty outlets for every one of Smid's touches.

For some reason some fans seem to think a defenseman's job is to be perfect and never make a mistake instead of simply just making more positive plays than negative ones.

 

[Donner]

That's been happening for as long as I can remember. It's happening with Nurse(he deserves it a bit more now than in years past). It happened with Petry. Poti was before my time as an Oilers fan, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's what happened with him. I've even seen old-timers say it happened with Coffey.

I remember some posters legitimately thought Smid was carrying the Smid-Petry pairing because he made less mistakes meanwhile Petry had about twenty outlets for every one of Smid's touches.

For some reason some fans seem to think a defenseman's job is to be perfect and never make a mistake instead of simply just making more positive plays than negative ones.

Exactly, how many times do you hear people say "a good D is one you don't notice". It's ingrained in people to value a low event D, even above ones that have a much more positive impact but make the occasional glaring mistake.

I blame minor hockey coaches.

In the past it seemed like D changed there game in order to avoid the one big mistake, and gave up the opportunity to make a lot more smaller good plays

For example, if a D gives up the blue line on a zone entry and gives the forward more room, yes they avoid getting burned wide (glaring mistake everyone remembers). But they then give the forward room and plays are able to develop in our zone. That D won't be assigned the blame if a GA happens 10 seconds after.

But if a D steps up and challenges the blue line, they could break up the rush before it develops and get the puck going the other way. But the time the forward gets around them and gets a partial breakaway, the D will be criticized to no end

 

[Aerchon]

Unfortuantly he is going to fall into the Oscar Klefbom issue. Hell have great underlying stats, but hell make 1 glaring mistake per game that will be burned into fans minds and theyll come away from the game remembering that big mistake

The 20 smaller, largely unremarakable great players he makes that impact the game way more positively than the 1 mistake, won't be rembered

You can see it play out in every GDT and the same thing happened with Klefbom. There would be 5 great breakout passes or N zone plays that resulted in positive results for the Oilers, crickets in GDT. But the moment there is one mistake where Bouchard/Klefbom are isolated and the "main" contributor, the pitchforks are out and this will be talked about ad nasaum.

Klefbom was far far far more frustrating to watch.

I agree with the similarities with the notable exception. As good as Klefbom was offensively he still, to my eyes, has about 1/10th the talent that Bouchard does.

Klefbom was also a lil worse than Bouchard defensively until he really just turned that around. His defensive game really became a strength his last couple years.

I hope Bouchard can turn that around as he still is very young

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Klefbom was far far far more frustrating to watch.

I agree with the similarities with the notable exception. As good as Klefbom was offensively he still, to my eyes, has about 1/10th the talent that Bouchard does.

Klefbom was also a lil worse than Bouchard defensively until he really just turned that around. His defensive game really became a strength his last couple years.

I hope Bouchard can turn that around as he still is very young

Klefa's biggest issue was brutal pinches, iirc.

 

[Aerchon]

Klefa's biggest issue was brutal pinches, iirc.

Brutal pinches yes but one his reasons for doing so was because his partner would also pinch poorly leaving him to defend 2 v 1's.

Literally, Klefbom was the worst at playing 2 v 1's I have ever seen in his early years. "Seemed" like a guaranteed goal every time Klefbom was defending in those situations.

I remember he once got turned around so badly doing nothing comprehensible that it actually looked like he decided to turn around and join the rush against the Oilers 3 on O.

 

[MoontoScott]

No GDT today?

 

[Stoneman89]

Bouch had another of his sleepy games last night. You can always have a good indication of how he and Draisaitl will play in their first 2-3 shifts. When Bouch doesn't seem to be mentally engaged, and Draisaitl refuses to move his feet, there is trouble brewing.

 

[guymez]

Bouch had another of his sleepy games last night. You can always have a good indication of how he and Draisaitl will play in their first 2-3 shifts. When Bouch doesn't seem to be mentally engaged, and Draisaitl refuses to move his feet, there is trouble brewing.

I think that for both players its a really good indicator for how they are likely to play that night.

If I see Drai (like he did repeatedly against the Canucks early on) not moving his feet then once he is pressured its an almost certainly means a change in puck possession. Same for Bouchard.
Niether are gifted skaters either (both are big bodies) so when they dont move their feet its big time trouble.

This is why I dont put Bouchard on the same level as Hughes and Makar. Aside from their ability to process the game quicker than Bouchard both of those players also have excellent wheels.
They can skate themselves out of trouble much of the time.
That is not an option available to Bouchard.
If he isnt moving the puck quickly enough he is in trouble. His processing is such that he has a propensity to either be easily stripped or he throws the puck into dangerous locations on the ice.

If Bouchard wants to take the next step IMO he really needs to improve the defensive puck management part of his game. That involves moving his feet to buy himself some additional time to process puck distribution.
Something he seems to be much better at in the O zone.
Thats likely because he isnt on his heels (short on time) reacting to the play (pressure).
In the O zone he is on his toes, has more time and is initiating the play.

 

[bucks_oil]

I think that for both players its a really good indicator for how they are likely to play that night.

If I see Drai (like he did repeatedly against the Canucks early on) not moving his feet then once he is pressured its an almost certainly means a change in puck possession. Same for Bouchard.
Niether are gifted skaters either (both are big bodies) so when they dont move their feet its big time trouble.

This is why I dont put Bouchard on the same level as Hughes and Makar. Aside from their ability to process the game quicker than Bouchard both of those players also have excellent wheels.
They can skate themselves out of trouble much of the time.
That is not an option available to Bouchard.
If he isnt moving the puck quickly enough he is in trouble. His processing is such that he has a propensity to either be easily stripped or he throws the puck into dangerous locations on the ice.

If Bouchard wants to take the next step IMO he really needs to improve the defensive puck management part of his game. That involves moving his feet to buy himself some additional time to process puck distribution.
Something he seems to be much better at in the O zone.
Thats likely because he isnt on his heels (short on time) reacting to the play (pressure).
In the O zone he is on his toes, has more time and is initiating the play.

Wise post...

My take is that it's about wiring. He's wired to see potential offensive plays. Those have high reward in the O-zone and high risk in the D-zone. And he's simply less confident in himself in the D-zone... that's what has him playing off his back foot. The mental calculus of risk-reward just isn't something that comes super natural for him yet... he'll get there with experience.

And this isn't really a blame thing. Bouchard's vantage point on the game is one very few people have... many of us who see the game as minimizing risk and protecting our own net can't necessarily see what Bouchard can see - and I'd argue we can't ever learn what he's got.

On the flip side, Bouchard is going to struggle for a while to see what a defensive-minded person can see. It's going to cause some tentative play in the D-zone (he's busy processing) and it's going to lead to (has definitely led to) some massive miscues at the O-zone blue line... it simply takes him longer to switch from offensive focus to defensive and recognize a threat against, because he's still concentrating on making an offensive play many players can't see.

And I'm fine with all of that, you take the brilliance with the naiveté... what drives me bonkers (at least earlier in the season) was when the mistake was already made and the effort to get back and recover was... defeatist at best (often coasting and hoping for the best of his goalie/lone defender). That seems to have been drilled out of him, he is more consistent making the effort... could still improve, but he's getting there.

 

[VainGretzky]

the thing with advanced stats is variables aren't taken into consideration

None of them do only Broberg on speed eye test is credible even though every metric out there says otherwise

 

[guymez]

Does the $9.25M Nurse contract affect Bouchards next contract?

 

[Slats432]

Does the $9.25M Nurse contract affect Bouchards next contract?

I think the biggest effect will be when Bouch gets paid that he will get crapped on like Nurse does for his defensive play wondering if a guy getting paid "X" should make defensive errors like that.