Player Discussion Evan Bouchard

Trafalgar Sadge Law

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Nov 8, 2007
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Lmfao anyone who thinks Bouchard is bad b/c of brainfarts or shin pad assassin go load up a peak Drew Doughty playoff video and count how many inopportune giveaways, missed shots, shots fired into opposing skaters, and defensive f***ups he has. Heck this board seems to have started the narrative that Duncan Keith was carrying him but go load up a peak Duncan Keith video and you'll see the same thing. Both Keith and Doughty were permanent fixtures among league leaders in giveaways/missed shots/shots blocked by opponent and would seemingly lead their teams in these departments without fail. Heck Duncan Keith once finished 2nd in the NHL behind Ovechkin in terms of shots taken blocked by opponent in 2010-2011. The only defensemen who seem to consistently finish above Doughty/Keith in terms of number of giveaways/missed shots/shots blocked by opponents are noted offensively inept players Erik Karlsson and Brent Burns. Obviously peak Doughty and Keith are vastly superior players to 23 year old Evan Bouchard but when you're the one driving play, handling the puck and making plays, and responsible for challenging opposing defensemen, you're going to make mistakes.
 
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LTIR

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Nov 8, 2013
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Lmfao anyone who thinks Bouchard is bad b/c of brainfarts or shin pad assassin go load up a peak Drew Doughty playoff video and count how many inopportune giveaways, missed shots, shots fired into opposing skaters, and defensive f***ups he has. Heck this board seems to have started the narrative that Duncan Keith was carrying him but go load up a peak Duncan Keith video and you'll see the same thing. Both Keith and Doughty were permanent fixtures among league leaders in giveaways/missed shots/shots blocked by opponent and would seemingly lead their teams in these departments without fail. Heck Duncan Keith once finished 2nd in the NHL behind Ovechkin in terms of shots taken blocked by opponent in 2010-2011. The only defensemen who seem to consistently finish above Doughty/Keith in terms of number of giveaways/missed shots/shots blocked by opponents are noted offensively inept players Erik Karlsson and Brent Burns. Obviously peak Doughty and Keith are vastly superior players to 23 year old Evan Bouchard but when you're the one driving play, handling the puck and making plays, and responsible for challenging opposing defensemen, you're going to make mistakes.
And anyone comparing 0G 5A struggling Dman to first ballot HOFers like Doughty and Keith are also out to lunch.

Bouchard has ways to go before being considered a reliable NHLer... He could use some PB time if we had someone better than Desharnais on the right side to replace him
 

Trafalgar Sadge Law

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Nov 8, 2007
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And anyone comparing 0G 5A struggling Dman to first ballot HOFers like Doughty and Keith are also out to lunch.

Bouchard has ways to go before being considered a reliable NHLer... He could use some PB time if we had someone better than Desharnais on the right side to replace him
Yes that's why I typed that Bouchard is a vastly inferior player to peak Doughty and Keith... The entire point was that some of the criticism towards him is entirely unwarranted like the shin pad assassin garbage. Every playdriving defenseman has shots blocked by opposing players, usually the better you are the more gets blocked b/c opposing players are keying in on you as one of the biggest threats on the ice.
 

Roof Daddy

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Apr 1, 2008
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People scoff at the eye test because it’s full of bias and no more reliable than anything else.

Petry got crucified on this board because he would play a good game, but have one really visible error. That’s Bouchard right now. People either ignoring or not even noticing all the good subtle things he does to drive possession and just focusing on the brain farts.
Honestly, I want nothing more than to see Bouch succeed. There was no player outside of McDavid and Drai that I was more excited about to enter the season than Bouch, but he has be undeniably awful. I get your point that he does still make some breakout passes that other guys may not, does some subtle faints that create a new lane up ice, but that comes at the price of these glaring giveaways, and right now those are outweighing the good plays.

He had 3 godawful giveaways on the same shift in the first lastnight. If you’re gonna do that, you damn well better:

A) Get back in the play and blow somebody up or make an amazing defensive play.

Or

B) Be a dynamo at the other end of the ice….. but all we’ve seen lately is shinpad assassin.

He is playing soft, and playing with zero confidence. He should be in Bakersfield for two weeks to find his game, but our D is so bad he must remain on the roster by default.
 

Aerchon

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Jul 20, 2011
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Development isnt linear. Most defensemen take a minimum of 200 games to have an idea what they will be. its not uncommon for a defender to take until age 26-28 to round out their game.

Bouchard last year looked to be as good as Barrie and likely to surpass him easily moving forward.

But, he is struggling a bit this year.

I hope this fanbase doesn't get all frustrated with what certainly still looks like a very promising young player.
 

harpoon

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Dec 23, 2005
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Bouchard last year looked to be as good as Barrie and likely to surpass him easily moving forward.
That’s what some people wanted to see. Not at all what actually happened.

Note how you use the word ‘surpass him easily’. That’s the root of your problem there. You’ve built this kid up so high in your mind based on 100 sheltered games, that you actually find no problem writing Bouchard will ‘easily’ surpass Barrie. Think about what you are writing for a second. Barrie has been one of the premium offensive defensemen of the past ten years. Three 50+ point seasons. Six 40+ point seasons. 700 games and 450 points. That’s 0.64 PPG. And he does it every season.

Barrie is also +9 in Edmonton over almost 150 games. He knows how to run a PP. He knows how to play the minutes the coach asks. He’s the sort of veteran player that you want on your team. Not this board though. They unironically write that Bouchard will ‘easily surpass’ Barrie and Barrie should be traded because … I mean who knows why they think that would be a good idea, ‘moar bouchbombs’ maybe? But any move like that would instantly make this club weaker on both offense and defense since Barrie has been one of the steadier defenders so far this season and on pace to put up 50+ points again.
 

Aerchon

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Jul 20, 2011
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That’s what some people wanted to see. Not at all what actually happened.

Note how you use the word ‘surpass him easily’. That’s the root of your problem there. You’ve built this kid up so high in your mind based on 100 sheltered games, that you actually find no problem writing Bouchard will ‘easily’ surpass Barrie. Think about what you are writing for a second. Barrie has been one of the premium offensive defensemen of the past ten years. Three 50+ point seasons. Six 40+ point seasons. 700 games and 450 points. That’s 0.64 PPG. And he does it every season.

Barrie is also +9 in Edmonton over almost 150 games. He knows how to run a PP. He knows how to play the minutes the coach asks. He’s the sort of veteran player that you want on your team. Not this board though. They unironically write that Bouchard will ‘easily surpass’ Barrie and Barrie should be traded because … I mean who knows why they think that would be a good idea, ‘moar bouchbombs’ maybe? But any move like that would instantly make this club weaker on both offense and defense since Barrie has been one of the steadier defenders so far this season and on pace to put up 50+ points again.
Prior to Woodcroft I wouldn't trade a ham sandwich for Barrie.

His gap control was more like air craft traffic control. Aka a jumbo jet could easily fly through his "gap" control.

Anyone who thinks Barrie, through the bulk of his career, is a clear cut net positive to his teams because he can put up points... Just doesn't know hockey.

Barrie was run off two teams in his career because his defensive game is so bad even a troglodyte can see he was a net negative. Despite racking up points like a kids racks up Candy at Halloween.

A "premium" offensive defenseman doesn't sign for 4.5 mill multi year deal in today's NHL. That in itself should quash any talk of him being a premium player. Neither he or his agent believe he is worth more than Adam Larsson just as a quick comparable.

Now since Woodcroft I have Barrie better than Bouchard but it's not clear cut in any way shape or form. Last year if Bouchard got PP time we would all be saying "Barrie who?". Even this year it's impossible to predict that Barrie would be better than Bouchard if their PP roles were reversed. That's a huge massive advantage that you are strangely glossing over to proclaim easy minutes for Bouchard.

Last year, with little to no imagination, it's easy to project Bouchard as the better of the two if you reversed their PP roles. And Bouchard's defense, while not good either, was also easy to project being better than Barrie. Because outside of a couple years Barrie is abysmal defensively.

This board has always had a few posters that have just been huge Barrie fanboys. Unable or unwilling to see that through most his career Barrie just isn't that good. Now with Bouchard, practically a rookie, struggling it appears like some are trying you put a strange spin on this situation.

Bouchard was a legit high ranked special prospect when we drafted him. That fell to us in what appeared to be pure luck due to other teams desperatelyneeding centers. He was brought up very slowly despite showing strong even as an 18 year old at the nhl level. Last year he was great for us. This year 20 games into basically his second season he is struggling.

No biggie.
 

McDNicks17

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Jul 1, 2010
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I feel like Bouchard is one of the main guys getting hurt by the team's complete 180 to terrible system play from the early Woodcroft days. They've been so much worse at defending the blue line and breaking out.

When you aren't great in your own zone, playing there a lot more isn't going to make you look good.
 
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MessierII

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Aug 10, 2011
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People scoff at the eye test because it’s full of bias and no more reliable than anything else.

Petry got crucified on this board because he would play a good game, but have one really visible error. That’s Bouchard right now. People either ignoring or not even noticing all the good subtle things he does to drive possession and just focusing on the brain farts.
It’s not the eye test telling me he has 0 goals and is -9
 
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McDNicks17

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Bouchard with the top6: 176 minutes, 7 goals for, 5 goals against

Bouchard with the bottom6: 116 minutes, 0 goals for, 10 goals against


It's definitely Bouchard's fault for his +/-. :sarcasm:
 

MessierII

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Aug 10, 2011
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Bouchard with the top6: 176 minutes, 7 goals for, 5 goals against

Bouchard with the bottom6: 116 minutes, 0 goals for, 10 goals against


It's definitely Bouchard's fault for his +/-. :sarcasm:
I mean yeah it is. Not everyone’s leading the green jacket race and other d men believe it or not play on this team with the same players. Weird eh?
 

McDNicks17

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Jul 1, 2010
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I mean yeah it is. Not everyone’s leading the green jacket race and other d men believe it or not play on this team with the same players. Weird eh?
Those other defensemen don't have a 0 onSH% or .850 SV% with them.

People always lose their mind over PDO benders at the beginning of each season and always end up looking silly when the numbers normalize.
 

MessierII

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Aug 10, 2011
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Those other defensemen don't have a 0 onSH% or .850 SV% with them.

People always lose their mind over PDO benders at the beginning of each season and always end up looking silly when the numbers normalize.
The reason his on ice save % sucks is because he’s playing like garbage.
 

MessierII

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Aug 10, 2011
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Is everyone else on the ice shooting literally 0% because he's playing like garbage too?
Partially yes. He’s not getting shots through or making plays in the O zone. PDO isn’t 100% random luck. He has a bad PDO because he’s crapping the bed in all aspects of hockey right now.
 

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