Erie Otters 2022-23 Season Thread

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OttersFan

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Many season ticket holders and I’m sure anyone who can do basic math knew that BJ’s time was near. His post game interview on Sunday was the hole in the coffin. You can’t tell everyone you played “fine” and you don’t know why the team isn’t seeing results when you lose every single time. Yes, it was an upgrade from Hartsburg, but the players stop trusting him. The biggest question, who replaces him?

My hope is they thoroughly look into a fresh face and that they don’t rush through the process. Out of everyone in two countries the best they could pick from was Chris Hartsburg to replace Knoblauch? I don’t buy it, but I don’t know the market either.

Dave Brown should’ve been gone long ago.

We aren’t elite, but we have enough talent to be a decent 6-8 team. It’s mind boggling how they’ve regressed from a 10-7 team to start the year taking down standing leaders to not having more than two wins since Thanksgiving.

When they did the signing after Sunday’s game you could tell everyone was down. Lalonde’s on ice frustration behavior probably helped in the relief of Adams. I could ramble on and on but I just want change and results. If that doesn’t happen, the season ticket revenue with drop significantly next year.
 
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dirty12

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I don’t think adding Stanley will help Erie attract players.
I would not make him GM. He is a fine coach though. And he would get good players pro contracts. That would help attract new prospects.
I was kind of hopeful that he would have been the wolves hire.
 
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Guy In Burlington

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I would not make him GM. He is a fine coach though. And he would get good players pro contracts. That would help attract new prospects.
I was kind of hopeful that he would have been the wolves hire.
I watched Butler for 15 years in Brampton. Not a bad coach, but one who at the end of the day made it to one conference final the whole time. In fact, from 1998-2009 he only had one team that won more than five playoff games. If memory serves.

And all the fans in Brampton used to say the same “he gets kids to the pros” line. But I think that’s exaggerated. I really don’t think his batting average in that area was much higher than the average, if it was higher at all.
 
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dirty12

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I watched Butler for 15 years in Brampton. Not a bad coach, but one who at the end of the day made it to one conference final the whole time. In fact, from 1998-2009 he only had one team that won more than five playoff games. If memory serves.

And all the fans in Brampton used to say the same “he gets kids to the pros” line. But I think that’s exaggerated. I really don’t think his batting average in that area was much higher than the average, if it was higher at all.
Actually conference final and OHL final in Brampton? NB as well in consecutive years
 

DWI Dale

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butler would be a great move 20 years ago.

his teams constructed of large, defensive players with no hands just don't cut it in anymore in the CHL.
 
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dirty12

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butler would be a great move 20 years ago.

his teams constructed of large, defensive players with no hands just don't cut it in anymore in the CHL.
Identical philosophy in place now with Butler disciples as coach and GM. Four consecutive years of 4-5 picks in rounds 2-4 makes all the difference. It was pretty much his team in the conference final last season.
 

Mata

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Identical philosophy in place now with Butler disciples as coach and GM. Four consecutive years of 4-5 picks in rounds 2-4 makes all the difference. It was pretty much his team in the conference final last season.

And we have no round 2/3 picks for the next 3 seasons thanks to some trades...

One thing is for certain, if Jim decides to remodel our management structure from top down he has to be very patient as it will take a lot of creativity, development, and finesse to build a team that produces quickly with so few assets in the cupboard.
 
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Guy In Burlington

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Actually conference final and OHL final in Brampton? NB as well in consecutive years
Sorry, yes, I should have added the league final, but really I was just trying to say his teams only got out of the second round once in 15 years in Brampton. For all the talent he had some years, they should have done more.

I knew they made the final again the first year in NB, but forgot they made the conference final the year after as well.

Still, I think he’s a guy whose rep overshadowed his actual record. And he’s 67 in a few weeks, not sure he’s the guy to connect with these players.
 

dirty12

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Sorry, yes, I should have added the league final, but really I was just trying to say his teams only got out of the second round once in 15 years in Brampton. For all the talent he had some years, they should have done more.

I knew they made the final again the first year in NB, but forgot they made the conference final the year after as well.

Still, I think he’s a guy whose rep overshadowed his actual record. And he’s 67 in a few weeks, not sure he’s the guy to connect with these players.
Brampton was given nothing to work with as an expansion team though; same can be said with Icedogs. It was pretty tough sledding for those teams for the first four year cycle, at least.
 

bobber

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Brampton was given nothing to work with as an expansion team though; same can be said with Icedogs. It was pretty tough sledding for those teams for the first four year cycle, at least.
We went to a few games in the Brampton rink when they were in that building. Great building. Trouble is you could hear your echo in there. Not sure if it was demographics but they just couldn't get the crowds. The great thing was if you didn't like your view you just moved to another area in the arena.
 
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Mata

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This is honestly a long overdue article that regurgitated the Hartsburg dilemma. There is some honesty there, but Scheig still sugar coats things way too much.

Perhaps they keep Wes and Vince as assistants if they buy into whomever is named our new HC, however a new HC still might demand their own AC's, at least a higher end coach.

Dave Brown needs to be held accountable for some really awful trades and also now 2 bad decisions on coaches (hindsight).

If the article reads true and Erie is a great destination, then we should have almost no trouble going OUTSIDE the organization and landing an above average coach.
 

I Loveallsports

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We went to a few games in the Brampton rink when they were in that building. Great building. Trouble is you could hear your echo in there. Not sure if it was demographics but they just couldn't get the crowds. The great thing was if you didn't like your view you just moved to another area in the arena.
Very nice rink. Two rinks I believe in that facility
 
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Mata

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How much money would it take to get Kris Knoblauch back here? What a mess it has been since he left.

A lot in the hockey community around here have been asking where he is.

He is in the AHL with the Hartford Wolf Pack currently after ascending the ranks into the NHL.
It is vital Erie signs someone who will deliver and we are not a stepping stone so to speak, unless somehow some way there is a new prodigy coming up the ranks.
 

rangersblues

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Is it just me or is it possible that Sherry Bassin was also a huge part of Erie's success. McDavid fell into your lap but Bassin built a real strong, deep team around him. Among the things he did was signing Debricat as an undrafted FA. Maybe it's the GM - just saying.

Unsure if there's been a turnover in scouts too. At any rate good luck.
 
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Mata

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Is it just me or is it possible that Sherry Bassin was also a huge part of Erie's success. McDavid fell into your lap but Bassin built a real strong, deep team around him. Among the things he did was signing Debricat as an undrafted FA. Maybe it's the GM - just saying.

Unsure if there's been a turnover in scouts too. At any rate good luck.

It is possible...

McDavid was a pillar here and they used his name to lure in other talent almost like dominoes. If you were playing in the OHL wouldn't you want to play with a once in a generation talent? What Erie did to market him and the team was incredible even though McDavid being himself was likely a factor of attracting talent.

I think Bassin got a bad wrap for 2 reasons...1 financial woes which led to reason 2...rumors of team relocation and moving out of Erie. The organization was in horrible shape in spite of 4 years of 50+ win seasons.

Can't forget that Waters paid off all the debts to purchase the team. While Bassin may have had a hand in the four consecutive 50+ win seasons I think the larger factor was having a name like McDavid here and then knowing exactly how to market and build around it.

Erie wasn't exactly great before McDavid, mostly average and we are OK with that but what has transpired since 2017 is well below average and that just doesn't cut it. Most STH are grateful for any team, but want to at least sniff playoffs every few years and there is currently no clear vision of that happening any time soon.

The HC change needs to be drastic and possibly the GM needs to be changed as well. The AC's are not awful, but everything hinges on whether or not they hire outside and if a new person wants a complete regime change.
 

DubCee21

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Is it just me or is it possible that Sherry Bassin was also a huge part of Erie's success. McDavid fell into your lap but Bassin built a real strong, deep team around him. Among the things he did was signing Debricat as an undrafted FA. Maybe it's the GM - just saying.

Unsure if there's been a turnover in scouts too. At any rate good luck.
Yes, he was a huge part of that success. He brought a lot of high end talent here and I believe Debrincat was probably the most talented and impactful FA signing in the franchise's history. Bassin was also responsible for the extreme failure's that led to acquiring McDavid. For a few seasons he was distracted from his ownership/ GM duties because he was involved with an investment group trying to purchase the Sabres before the Pegulas did. As a result, we had 2 of the worst seasons on record and arguably the 2 worst coaches in Robbie Ftorek and Peter Siedorkewicz, and up until the last few seasons, some of the worst drafting and trades I've seen. The financial status of the team was a mess, leading to constant speculation of relocating, going into debt, and taking loans from Daryl Katz.
 

OttersFan

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Terrance-Fimis-Molnar
Spence-Saganiuk-Gilmartin
Sedore-Cohen-Alfano
Artichuk-McDonald-Smith

Morton-Johnston
Kulakov-Sova
Daviault-Sauder

New lines tonight
 
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Moroz

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Yes, he was a huge part of that success. He brought a lot of high end talent here and I believe Debrincat was probably the most talented and impactful FA signing in the franchise's history. Bassin was also responsible for the extreme failure's that led to acquiring McDavid. For a few seasons he was distracted from his ownership/ GM duties because he was involved with an investment group trying to purchase the Sabres before the Pegulas did. As a result, we had 2 of the worst seasons on record and arguably the 2 worst coaches in Robbie Ftorek and Peter Siedorkewicz, and up until the last few seasons, some of the worst drafting and trades I've seen. The financial status of the team was a mess, leading to constant speculation of relocating, going into debt, and taking loans from Daryl Katz.
I think this discussion of Sherry Bassin is a very good one. There are several facets of Bassin's stewardship of this franchise that need to be kept in mind:

1. He brought the franchise to Erie after the ECHL team here folded. I had season tickets to that team (was it the Golden Blades or the Panthers - my memory fails me at the moment and that tells you how old I am). I had no idea what junior hockey was about, the quality of the hockey, or the fact that you would be seeing future NHL stars on the ice. For that we are indebted to Bassin.

2. Bassin is a warm, charming person, whose hockey stories go back decades and are quite entertaining. He gave a franchise that was brand new to Erie some pretty deep hockey roots that it would not otherwise have had.

3. He did win an OHL Championship in 2001-02, without tanking and without any McDavid quality players. Erie has had two OHL championships over its 25 year history, which is actually more than most OHL franchises can claim over those 25 years.

4. He did put together a team around McDavid that was nothing less than spectacular and had an unprecedented run of four 50+ wins. However, I would say that of equal importance, if not greater importance, was his naming of Kris Knoblauch as head coach. I remember Bassin saying that Knoblauch would someday be a head coach in the NHL. That has not happened yet, but I think Bassin may well prove prophetic in this regard.

5. Bassin did not have the financial wherewithal to run this franchise properly. It should be kept in mind that the league changed dramatically over the time that Bassin was the owner. It went from what some would call a "mom & pop" league to being big business. That outstripped Bassin and, frankly, the OHL brass. Bassin did not have the money to play in this new sand box and the OHL hierarchy did not grasp the critical need to monitor its franchises to make certain that they remained financially sound, to wit, prohibiting franchises from taking on excessive debt.

6. We know from the bankruptcy that Bassin's financial desperation led him to borrow money which in reality he had no realistic means of paying back. And the terms of the deal were such that it would permit the lender to move the team to Hamilton upon Bassin's inevitable default.

This, in my opinion, is the biggest blot on Bassin's tenure in Erie. The community had supported the Otters at a level that was as good as or better than most OHL cities. He had a good partner in the Convention Center Authority, which provided the franchise one of the larger and better rinks in the OHL, and which was planning and ultimately executed upon a spectacular improvement program for the Arena. But Erie almost lost its team because of Bassin's financial desperation and financial mismanagement. And the rumors swirling about while all this was happening were most damaging and most disheartening.

7. One last thing. A bankruptcy filing is normally considered proof positive evidence of failure. It is also something embarrassing for an individual with a great deal of personal pride. But Bassin took that step as a means of staving off the foreclosing lender and creating the opportunity to sell the team to a buyer that would keep the team in Erie. There are a lot of things that can go wrong in a bankruptcy case. But they did not in this instance. Every creditor was paid in full. The team kept playing, not missing a single game. The employees did not miss a single paycheck. And, most importantly, the opportunity was created for a Jim Waters to step forward, to keep the team In Erie and to put it on a sound financial basis.


In sum, there are many facets to Bassin's ownership and operation of the Otters. I think it is a mistake to focus on only one facet in evaluating Bassin, both as an individual and as an owner of an OHL franchise. It is only one person's opinion, and I can understand why some may disagree, but I think Sherry Bassin, on a whole, has done more for Erie hockey than any other individual in the history of the sport in Erie. In saying this I am consciously willing to put down the financial disaster to someone who found himself in a situation with which he was neither professionally nor financially equipped to cope. He made some bad decisions in what for him was a desperate situation. But in the end he made the right move in filing bankruptcy and navigating those waters. We are all human and I wonder what I would have done had I found myself in similar personal circumstances.

In this regard, I think the good far outweighs the bad, and I prefer to think of him, and the history of this franchise, in that light.

 

Mata

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BJ being let go seems to have had a negative effect on the players IMO after that first period. They are playing rather sloppy and uninspired. I can't say I don't blame them one way or another, just my observation during the first frame.
 

Mata

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Something a little different in period 2. The coaches were rewarding players based on hustle with more shifts. Both Artichuk and Alfano played more that period sometimes going every other shift.

Maybe they will stop feeling sorry for themselves and build off of that.
 
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