Erie Otters 2022-23 Off-Season Thread (Part 2)

[snipes29]

Dude North Bay is losing 4-1 and this was a dirty play to change momentum. Dirty dirty dirty. Oh nice to see the Bay lose anyway.

WJ

North Bay is dirty especially when there loosing

 

[Logosarejusttargets]

North Bay is dirty especially when there loosing

Let's be honest...you could actually say "<insert team name here> is dirty especially when losing". Just like every fan base thinks the refs are specifically bad for their team only.

 

[Mata]

Stan's message seems pretty straightforward and clear...

●Learn as much as possible this year about his players and the organization
●Push the middle of the table next season
●Look into a deeper run in roughly 2 years.

 

[Guy In Burlington]

Stan's message seems pretty straightforward and clear...

●Learn as much as possible this year about his players and the organization
●Push the middle of the table next season
●Look into a deeper run in roughly 2 years.

He may have said this at the meeting, but that sounds very much like his plan when he had an expansion team in Brampton. The plan worked well enough and could have worked better if he didn’t keep running to, uh, Erie, in the playoffs.

 

[Mata]

He may have said this at the meeting, but that sounds very much like his plan when he had an expansion team in Brampton. The plan worked well enough and could have worked better if he didn’t keep running to, uh, Erie, in the playoffs.

I think the message is on point with what most of the STH want...

Consistency to run a program in the 6 - 8 most seasons, a rebuild that doesn't take 7 years, and a championship run once every so often. We realize we won't get McDavid years and 50+ wins for 4 straight years, but 30+ wins would be a pretty reasonable goal to set for an annual one.

 

[DubCee21]

He may have said this at the meeting, but that sounds very much like his plan when he had an expansion team in Brampton. The plan worked well enough and could have worked better if he didn’t keep running to, uh, Erie, in the playoffs.

When did Brampton/NB ever meet Erie in the playoffs?

 

[Guy In Burlington]

First round in 2000 and second round 2001. Erie in six and Erie in five, respectively.

Brampton used to be in the Midwest before the old Centennials moved to Saginaw and made a realignment necessary.

 

[Guy In Burlington]

When did Brampton/NB ever meet Erie in the playoffs?

First round 2000 (Erie in six) and second round in 2001 (Erie in five).

Brampton was in the Midwest until the 2002-03 season. That’s when the old Centennials moved to Saginaw and the league did a realignment.

 

[OttersFan]

Lots came from the town hall with Coach SB last night. Basically, it’s his way or the highway and if they can’t get it together they don’t need to play. Next year he wants to be a middle of the pack team and the following year make a championship run. He’s looking for large defensemen this draft. He wants a guy in front of the goalie at all times. Butler talked for 40 mins and Waters briefly.

He mentioned that his first game in Erie there were 6500 on the ice. The fans deserve better production. He mentioned that he has been in arenas with 1,000 people and 600 for the away team and had better results.

Butler and Dale Hunter shook hands on Butlers first game back in the league and Butler told Hunter “it won’t be so easily playing Erie any longer at the EIA”.

Dave Brown was hiding in the corner and Butler had to call him out. Good indication his time here is done.

 

[NOA]

Lots came from the town hall with Coach SB last night. Basically, it’s his way or the highway and if they can’t get it together they don’t need to play. Next year he wants to be a middle of the pack team and the following year make a championship run. He’s looking for large defensemen this draft. He wants a guy in front of the goalie at all times. Butler talked for 40 mins and Waters briefly.

He mentioned that his first game in Erie there were 6500 on the ice. The fans deserve better production. He mentioned that he has been in arenas with 1,000 people and 600 for the away team and had better results.

Butler and Dale Hunter shook hands on Butlers first game back in the league and Butler told Hunter “it won’t be so easily playing Erie any longer at the EIA”.

Dave Brown was hiding in the corner and Butler had to call him out. Good indication his time here is done.

Thanks for the info

So awesome to hear that we are looking for “large” defensemen. Such an outdated approach and why people were questioning or laughing at this hire. This isn’t 2005. You don’t win in the OHL with defense/size first. It starts with offense and skill. Team defense/structure is obviously critical but large defensemen? I don’t see how that is even as valuable in today’s game especially when half the hits in the league are suspension worthy or 10 min misconducts. If the team uses their top 4 pick on a defenseman, let alone one that relies on size and not speed/skill, it will be a mistake

Curious why you think that piece on DB indicates his time is done. Again, DB made the SB hire so it seems very odd for Jim Waters to let DB have that power in hiring the next guy if he already knew he was firing DB. Maybe it’s more just the approach they wanted to take, to let SB have that conversation with fans and JW as the top man. But they might have felt DB was redundant. Idk, def interesting but I’ll be more upset with this SB hire if they fire DB at the end of the year because in that scenario you should wait, don’t promote or hire any coach, and let the new GM take next steps with hiring the staff

 

[Mata]

Lalonde stood on his head for 40...then the wheels fall off after back to back 40 second goals to start the 3rd.

We got dominated in the first and played pretty even in the 2nd with all 3 goals being pretty solid.

As far as Butler goes...he's had to adapt and evolve over his 25 years as a coach. I trust he knows what he is doing. With regards to DB, have heard from multiple sources close to the team if he isn't gone this season it will be next when his contract is done (I believe it's up next season). So, regardless of their "friendship" he has a job to do to hire the best possible candidate for the job. Otherwise he just hired a good friend for the sake of hiring a good friend, which makes even littler sense.

 

[dirty12]

Thanks for the info

So awesome to hear that we are looking for “large” defensemen. Such an outdated approach and why people were questioning or laughing at this hire. This isn’t 2005. You don’t win in the OHL with defense/size first. It starts with offense and skill. Team defense/structure is obviously critical but large defensemen? I don’t see how that is even as valuable in today’s game especially when half the hits in the league are suspension worthy or 10 min misconducts. If the team uses their top 4 pick on a defenseman, let alone one that relies on size and not speed/skill, it will be a mistake

Curious why you think that piece on DB indicates his time is done. Again, DB made the SB hire so it seems very odd for Jim Waters to let DB have that power in hiring the next guy if he already knew he was firing DB. Maybe it’s more just the approach they wanted to take, to let SB have that conversation with fans and JW as the top man. But they might have felt DB was redundant. Idk, def interesting but I’ll be more upset with this SB hire if they fire DB at the end of the year because in that scenario you should wait, don’t promote or hire any coach, and let the new GM take next steps with hiring the staff

Sarnia, Barrie, London, Ottawa, NB, Peterborough al have three defencemen in the 6’2” - 6’5” range; you win with big defencemen.
It is not like the Otters need another 5’6” - 5’8” forward that will produce in their age 19-20 seasons and there will not be a Drysdale to pass up if the Otters draft big D in the U18 draft or their 2nd & 3rd picks in the 4th round of the OHL priority selection.

 

[Mata]

Sarnia, Barrie, London, Ottawa, NB, Peterborough al have three defencemen in the 6’2” - 6’5” range; you win with big defencemen.
It is not like the Otters need another 5’6” - 5’8” forward that will produce in their age 19-20 seasons and there will not be a Drysdale to pass up if the Otters draft big D in the U18 draft or their 2nd & 3rd picks in the 4th round of the OHL priority selection.

Someone gets it...

The McDavid years are done and the formula of small, fast, creative players is just not working. Most games (up until this season) we were out muscled time and time again with that formula. Sounds like if we keep going we are just beating a dead horse.

 

[OttersFan]

Thanks for the info

So awesome to hear that we are looking for “large” defensemen. Such an outdated approach and why people were questioning or laughing at this hire. This isn’t 2005. You don’t win in the OHL with defense/size first. It starts with offense and skill. Team defense/structure is obviously critical but large defensemen? I don’t see how that is even as valuable in today’s game especially when half the hits in the league are suspension worthy or 10 min misconducts. If the team uses their top 4 pick on a defenseman, let alone one that relies on size and not speed/skill, it will be a mistake

Curious why you think that piece on DB indicates his time is done. Again, DB made the SB hire so it seems very odd for Jim Waters to let DB have that power in hiring the next guy if he already knew he was firing DB. Maybe it’s more just the approach they wanted to take, to let SB have that conversation with fans and JW as the top man. But they might have felt DB was redundant. Idk, def interesting but I’ll be more upset with this SB hire if they fire DB at the end of the year because in that scenario you should wait, don’t promote or hire any coach, and let the new GM take next steps with hiring the staff

We are losing Morton next year and theoretically Kulakov if they want to go a different direction. I don’t think he’s gone but just as a scenario, that’s our two biggest players. We have no one who can stand in front of the net during the PP. That’s what Butler wants. He wants players who aren’t scared to block shots. He said that if it’s between you and the puck, you better block the shot to keep it away from the crease. We have scoring power, but we have to keep the puck out of the net. We’re small and get outskated with our current size.

I strongly believe SB will be the GM and HC. SB has plans for the long term. DB? We haven’t heard boo from him since 2017. He’s had enough time to change the structure of the organization and went 0/2 in head coaches. If you’re hiring a new coach, you do it because he’s the best option available and not because you’re best friends. He’s here to stop the bleeding this season, get to know the players, and scout for what we need in the draft. It’s a business. I’m sure JW stepped in and when I spoke with him before the hire, he seemed like he would make the decisions.

 

[NOA]

Sarnia, Barrie, London, Ottawa, NB, Peterborough al have three defencemen in the 6’2” - 6’5” range; you win with big defencemen.
It is not like the Otters need another 5’6” - 5’8” forward that will produce in their age 19-20 seasons and there will not be a Drysdale to pass up if the Otters draft big D in the U18 draft or their 2nd & 3rd picks in the 4th round of the OHL priority selection.

We aren’t talking about froward size so I’m not going to argue that piece of your comment. But size on their backend isn’t their primary issue right now. That doesn’t mean I’m saying it’s not an issue, but that is down the list on other issues like idk drafting better, developing and coaching better, goaltending, structure, discipline, etc. Everyone is over 6’0 and 5 players are over 6’1. The best 2 teams in the West, LDN/WSR, are pretty similarly sized in height/weight that the Otters have on their current backend. When Erie won in 2016-2017, they had 2 players that were 6’3 but also 2 players that were 5’11 on the backend. None of their defensemen were high OHL picks, but a few in the middle rounds 3-6 range. Ironically enough, when they won in 2002 when size was a bigger thing - they had just 1 player that was 6’3 on the backend, everyone else was 5’11-6’2. WSR currently has 2 defensemen that were drafted in the 1st round but 1 was acquired via trade and was a later first round pick and the other was picked 22nd overall and is “undersized” at 5’11. NB has just one 1st round pick defender and that was Ty Nelson, 1st overall, who is “undersized.”

I edited my original comment because it was too long and too confusing to explain. Figured it would be lost in translation and here we are. My point wasn’t that you don’t need larger sized defensemen. My point wasn’t to say Erie has good size and it’s not an issue. My point was not suggesting that they keep taking 5’10 guys in the draft (read my posts last 2 years on my complaints about their drafting of small players). Rather my point is really to say 1) Having “larger defensemen” in itself is not a direct correlation to winning 2) You can find size in many rounds of the draft, including 2-4th round picks which are still high picks, but you just need to develop them better and 3) SB saying this just shows his beliefs are still stuck in 2005 as it read like “this is priority 1”

If Erie fans don’t have concerns about this type of comment with SB than idk what to tell. I guess I’ll just say told ya so in 2 years when we are still banging our heads against the wall. He clearly hasn’t evolved and is who he is, which is expected with his age and I’m sure natural stubbornness. But his style of coaching was too old school to have worked 4-5 years ago, let alone in 2024. I probably don’t have a big issue with the comment if he generalized it more and just said “we need to get bigger, stronger.” That’s valid and that’s the bigger need. My fear is we take some 6’2-6’3 moose with our top 4 pick and I think, MY OPINION, that this will be a mistake

 

[NOA]

Someone gets it...

The McDavid years are done and the formula of small, fast, creative players is just not working. Most games (up until this season) we were out muscled time and time again with that formula. Sounds like if we keep going we are just beating a dead horse.

Smh, I just don’t think you read my posts anymore. Somehow spinning it like I’m stuck in 2015. I have been one of the BIGGEST critics of size on this team and had issues with the drafting smaller players (5’6-5’10). Brought up the issues before almost everyone else on the forum about 2 years ago. Also Erie’s “formula” isn’t working because of poor management and horrible coaching, don’t let size now be the scapegoat. “We just need to get bigger! That will save us!”

I’m not saying let’s keep drafting small players but sure, twist the pretzel.

 

[NOA]

I strongly believe SB will be the GM and HC. SB has plans for the long term. DB? We haven’t heard boo from him since 2017. He’s had enough time to change the structure of the organization and went 0/2 in head coaches. If you’re hiring a new coach, you do it because he’s the best option available and not because you’re best friends. He’s here to stop the bleeding this season, get to know the players, and scout for what we need in the draft. It’s a business. I’m sure JW stepped in and when I spoke with him before the hire, he seemed like he would make the decisions.

Reading between the lines, DB said he hired SB because they have known each other for years and they are friends. It was clear cronyism.

 

[Mata]

We are losing Morton next year and theoretically Kulakov if they want to go a different direction. I don’t think he’s gone but just as a scenario, that’s our two biggest players. We have no one who can stand in front of the net during the PP. That’s what Butler wants. He wants players who aren’t scared to block shots. He said that if it’s between you and the puck, you better block the shot to keep it away from the crease. We have scoring power, but we have to keep the puck out of the net. We’re small and get outskated with our current size.

I strongly believe SB will be the GM and HC. SB has plans for the long term. DB? We haven’t heard boo from him since 2017. He’s had enough time to change the structure of the organization and went 0/2 in head coaches. If you’re hiring a new coach, you do it because he’s the best option available and not because you’re best friends. He’s here to stop the bleeding this season, get to know the players, and scout for what we need in the draft. It’s a business. I’m sure JW stepped in and when I spoke with him before the hire, he seemed like he would make the decisions.

Pretty much this...

Given the fact that Butler doubled as a HC and GM for multiple years and had relatively decent success one has to believe that's the direction with the only new exception, this time he's like 66. I have to assume DB is done this season or next and Stan, at the very least, assumes sole GM responsibility on top of HC. Will he continue to coach is the question mark for me. Does he have people he trusts enough to run the show while he puts together the team/direction.

Based on Bulter's history he likes full control. He wants to have a big say in everything. He's not coming here if he doesn't have that same level as before unless they paid him a stupid amount of money.

 

[hardclimate]

Typical SB d-men: Kyle Wood 6'5 - Riley Bruce 6'7

 

[ZinErie]

I'm hoping they do draft a defenseman. One in particular. I believe his name is Schaefer? I've seen him compared to Drysdale. Pretty much every scout says he is far and away the best dman in the draft. We have quality young forwards in our core, but not D.

So awesome to hear that we are looking for “large” defensemen. Such an outdated approach and why people were questioning or laughing at this hire. This isn’t 2005. You don’t win in the OHL with defense/size first. It starts with offense and skill. Team defense/structure is obviously critical but large defensemen? I don’t see how that is even as valuable in today’s game especially when half the hits in the league are suspension worthy or 10 min misconducts. If the team uses their top 4 pick on a defenseman, let alone one that relies on size and not speed/skill, it will be a mistake

Curious why you think that piece on DB indicates his time is done. Again, DB made the SB hire so it seems very odd for Jim Waters to let DB have that power in hiring the next guy if he already knew he was firing DB. Maybe it’s more just the approach they wanted to take, to let SB have that conversation with fans and JW as the top man. But they might have felt DB was redundant. Idk, def interesting but I’ll be more upset with this SB hire if they fire DB at the end of the year because in that scenario you should wait, don’t promote or hire any coach, and let the new GM take next steps with hiring the staff

 

[Guy In Burlington]

Can’t believe I forgot Schaefer when I mentioned Moore and Roobroeck earlier.

Schaefer is eye-poppingly good. I saw him a few times as a 14-year-old (my buddy coached him in Hamilton) and a few times this year (Halton Hurricanes) too. Gets better every time I see him. Speed, hands, vision, shot. All great.

I’m not a scout but I am in rinks a lot and happen to be there when he’s there fairly often I guess.

 

[Mata]

Can’t believe I forgot Schaefer when I mentioned Moore and Roobroeck earlier.

Schaefer is eye-poppingly good. I saw him a few times as a 14-year-old (my buddy coached him in Hamilton) and a few times this year (Halton Hurricanes) too. Gets better every time I see him. Speed, hands, vision, shot. All great.

I’m not a scout but I am in rinks a lot and happen to be there when he’s there fairly often I guess.

I figure as long as we get a top 3 pick AND they agree to commit to us we will be in a pretty solid spot...

Bressette, Terrance, Spence, Fimis, Alfano...

Hopefully Molnar returns we could have a fairly solid top 6 heading into camp.

 

[dirty12]

We aren’t talking about froward size so I’m not going to argue that piece of your comment. But size on their backend isn’t their primary issue right now. That doesn’t mean I’m saying it’s not an issue, but that is down the list on other issues like idk drafting better, developing and coaching better, goaltending, structure, discipline, etc. Everyone is over 6’0 and 5 players are over 6’1. The best 2 teams in the West, LDN/WSR, are pretty similarly sized in height/weight that the Otters have on their current backend.

LDN has 6’2”, 6’3”, 6’3” D

When Erie won in 2016-2017, they had 2 players that were 6’3 but also 2 players that were 5’11 on the backend. None of their defensemen were high OHL picks, but a few in the middle rounds 3-6 range. Ironically enough, when they won in 2002 when size was a bigger thing - they had just 1 player that was 6’3 on the backend, everyone else was 5’11-6’2.

McDavid, Strome, & Dibrincat …Erie didn’t need much else

WSR currently has 2 defensemen that were drafted in the 1st round but 1 was acquired via trade and was a later first round pick and the other was picked 22nd overall and is “undersized” at 5’11. NB has just one 1st round pick defender and that was Ty Nelson, 1st overall, who is “undersized.”

Ty Nelson is 206 lbs. Christopolous is a 2nd round pick, Mathurin & Kennedy & Turley 3rd round, Lukin import 1st …plenty invested.

I edited my original comment because it was too long and too confusing to explain. Figured it would be lost in translation and here we are. My point wasn’t that you don’t need larger sized defensemen. My point wasn’t to say Erie has good size and it’s not an issue. My point was not suggesting that they keep taking 5’10 guys in the draft (read my posts last 2 years on my complaints about their drafting of small players). Rather my point is really to say 1) Having “larger defensemen” in itself is not a direct correlation to winning 2) You can find size in many rounds of the draft, including 2-4th round picks which are still high picks, but you just need to develop them better and 3) SB saying this just shows his beliefs are still stuck in 2005 as it read like “this is priority 1”

Priority #1 is get at least top 3 in the lottery, nail the import pick #2, #3 is a large D imo.

If Erie fans don’t have concerns about this type of comment with SB than idk what to tell. I guess I’ll just say told ya so in 2 years when we are still banging our heads against the wall. He clearly hasn’t evolved and is who he is, which is expected with his age and I’m sure natural stubbornness. But his style of coaching was too old school to have worked 4-5 years ago, let alone in 2024. I probably don’t have a big issue with the comment if he generalized it more and just said “we need to get bigger, stronger.” That’s valid and that’s the bigger need. My fear is we take some 6’2-6’3 moose with our top 4 pick and I think, MY OPINION, that this will be a mistake

Butler has won with talent, and I think he can again a year or two after consecutive lottery picks

 

[NOA]

LDN has 6’2”, 6’3”, 6’3” D

McDavid, Strome, & Dibrincat …Erie didn’t need much else

Ty Nelson is 206 lbs. Christopolous is a 2nd round pick, Mathurin & Kennedy & Turley 3rd round, Lukin import 1st …plenty invested.

Priority #1 is get at least top 3 in the lottery, nail the import pick #2, #3 is a large D imo.

Butler has won with talent, and I think he can again a year or two after consecutive lottery picks

As an outsider who isn’t from Erie or an Otters fan, wow you are heavily invested in SB !!!!

 

[dirty12]

As an outsider who isn’t from Erie or an Otters fan, wow you are heavily invested in SB !!!!

Seen a lot of NB & Barrie having wolves’ season tickets. Since I’ve had the OHL Pak and now OHL (live?), I see almost every central division game plus games with top teams facing off