Prospect Info: Emil Heineman

[Scriptor]

Hughes is really trying to spark a bidding war for Chiarot while there are still many teams with bullets left in the cylinder to make deals, rather than waiting and seeing teams make moves that take them out of the running.

Is he bluffing that a deal is imminent and that all teams need to make their best offers? trading Toffoli to CAL raised the styles for a few other teams that are competing directly with CAL for a playoff spot or to get far in the playoffs. Smart move to amp up the pressure after the Toffoli trade.

For example (I wouldn't trade with them, but as an example), Du(m)bas(s) said that Toronto only had one trade in them and that he was waiting to make sure they were making the right trade.

 

[dcyhabs]

True, the thing is, can you think of a former 2nd round pick that was traded twice before his first game and then went on to become a top 6 forward or top 4 d?

We gave up Toffoli on a good contract. You don't want to do that unless you get one asset that will almost for sure become what Toffoli is or multiple assets that each could become what he is. The late first has about a 25% chance, if that. Statistically Emile has even less of a chance. Having said that there's a first for everything, or even if there's a low percentage chance it could happen.

The return isn’t going to match peak Toffoli, it’s intended to fit better 3-4 years from now when he may be done. Peak Heineman may he better than old Toffoli.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Hughes is really trying to spark a bidding war for Chiarot while there are still many teams with bullets left in the cylinder to make deals, rather than waiting and seeing teams make moves that take them out of the running.

Is he bluffing that a deal is imminent and that all teams need to make their best offers? trading Toffoli to CAL raised the styles for a few other teams that are competing directly with CAL for a playoff spot or to get far in the playoffs. Smart move to amp up the pressure after the Toffoli trade.

For example (I wouldn't trade with them, but as an example), Du(m)bas(s) said that Toronto only had one trade in them and that he was waiting to make sure they were making the right trade.

He never said that a trade was imminent though. He simply said that as soon as a team offers the canadiens what they want, then he will trade Chariot. Teams have likely not offered their 1st round pick yet, which is what Hughes is waiting for.

 

[26Mats]

The return isn’t going to match peak Toffoli, it’s intended to fit better 3-4 years from now when he may be done. Peak Heineman may he better than old Toffoli.

Toffoli's value has gone down this season, probably mainly due to lack of team offense. Would it go back up? That's uncertain. I think it's possible.

I like the way Bergevin was patient with the Pacioretty trade and ended up getting a top prospect like Suzuki. I don't think Toffoli would fetch small prospect with that pedigree. But you never know, perhaps worth the wait. Some years the market goes crazy at the TDL with the big teams getting into an arms race. Filip Forsberg was traded so washington could load with, not a Pacioretty player, but Martin Erat, smh.

 

[montreal]

I think it's a little odd that they had Lecavalier watch video of this kid but no word if they had our Swedish scout Tommy Lehmann give his input. Of course there's also Rockstrom who you don't hear if they consulted him either. just seems kind of odd that they would have someone with no experience as a video scout, as a source. Not saying that Gorton and Hughes didn't put their own work in or that they didn't consult our scouts, just that I guess you would think they would also say that in addition to Vinny scouting him, our Swedish scout really liked him or Rockstrom is a fan, etc..

 

[dcyhabs]

Toffoli's value has gone down this season, probably mainly due to lack of team offense. Would it go back up? That's uncertain. I think it's possible.

I like the way Bergevin was patient with the Pacioretty trade and ended up getting a top prospect like Suzuki. I don't think Toffoli would fetch small prospect with that pedigree. But you never know, perhaps worth the wait. Some years the market goes crazy at the TDL with the big teams getting into an arms race. Filip Forsberg was traded so washington could load with, not a Pacioretty player, but Martin Erat, smh.

Bergevin wasn’t following a GM who had completely destroyed the team and salary structure so that all the players looked bad and he was obliged to shed salary in the current season. Hughes pretty much has to shed 10 million before next season.

 

[morhilane]

I think it's a little odd that they had Lecavalier watch video of this kid but no word if they had our Swedish scout Tommy Lehmann give his input. Of course there's also Rockstrom who you don't hear if they consulted him either. just seems kind of odd that they would have someone with no experience as a video scout, as a source. Not saying that Gorton and Hughes didn't put their own work in or that they didn't consult our scouts, just that I guess you would think they would also say that in addition to Vinny scouting him, our Swedish scout really liked him or Rockstrom is a fan, etc..

There are multiple reports that they liked Heineman since the draft and that they wanted to draft him (he was taken a few spots before Tuch, 43 vs 47).
The main youtube scouting video on Heineman pre-draft and posted around since the Habs acquired him was done by the now video scout of the Habs (Yannick St-Pierre).

I don't think they need to come out and say that all the heads scouts loved the guy. The Flames didn't bother, they just said they wanted him, like the Habs.

 

[Schooner Guy]

I think it's a little odd that they had Lecavalier watch video of this kid but no word if they had our Swedish scout Tommy Lehmann give his input. Of course there's also Rockstrom who you don't hear if they consulted him either. just seems kind of odd that they would have someone with no experience as a video scout, as a source. Not saying that Gorton and Hughes didn't put their own work in or that they didn't consult our scouts, just that I guess you would think they would also say that in addition to Vinny scouting him, our Swedish scout really liked him or Rockstrom is a fan, etc..

I'm sure they would have checked with their scouts. In Vinny's case, I think the Habs were just trying to point out that he's already been involved in their Hockey Ops work.

 

[26Mats]

Bergevin wasn’t following a GM who had completely destroyed the team and salary structure so that all the players looked bad and he was obliged to shed salary in the current season. Hughes pretty much has to shed 10 million before next season.

I don't think he needed to trade Toffoli's low cap hit to shed salary.

It will be interesting to see if Hughes will be able to move Gallagher. Probably have to take back another contract as in the Voracek for Atkinson trade.

 

[Scriptor]

He never said that a trade was imminent though. He simply said that as soon as a team offers the canadiens what they want, then he will trade Chariot. Teams have likely not offered their 1st round pick yet, which is what Hughes is waiting for.

What he said was, "Make your best offer", which implose he's going to pull the trigger shortly. It's intended to create a sense of urgence and comes on the back of the Toffoli trade which went to a team with a lot of direct competition.

It's an attempt at parking a bidding war. "Well, I got this from them, can you do better?"

 

[Bacchus1]

True, the thing is, can you think of a former 2nd round pick that was traded twice before his first game and then went on to become a top 6 forward or top 4 d?

We gave up Toffoli on a good contract. You don't want to do that unless you get one asset that will almost for sure become what Toffoli is or multiple assets that each could become what he is. The late first has about a 25% chance, if that. Statistically Emile has even less of a chance. Having said that there's a first for everything, or even if there's a low percentage chance it could happen.

I think we could have gotten a little more, but looking forward, we really didn’t need TT, he wanted a chance to compete (not on rebuilding team), and by the time Habs will be ready to compete, TTs great contract will be over. I think the two pieces we got will almost definitely play for the Habs (if the avoid injury), and will be ready to play soon enough to join our emerging core. .

We also gain a bit of cap space immediately, which could help as we move towards trade deadline.

 

[yianik]

He never said that a trade was imminent though. He simply said that as soon as a team offers the canadiens what they want, then he will trade Chariot. Teams have likely not offered their 1st round pick yet, which is what Hughes is waiting for.

I am really interested to see if a Chiarot trade does happen by this weekend because it will be another tell on how Hughes wants to be known in terms of trades.

With Toffoli he said he wasn't concerned about the market establishing itself so that he got the very best return. He had an expectation and if somebody met that, the trade would be done.

Similarly if he voiced that any team who is interested in Chiarot needs to put in its best offer, and Chiarot is traded within a few days of that, he is establishing his credibility.

Very unlike MB approach. MB would put in stink bids, be constantly on the phone and trying to eke out that extra asset in a trade. MB loved the wheeling and dealing buzz. Hughes is coming across the as the polar opposite. He doesn't care about maximizing an assets value. He is doing things more methodically, structured, under control.

 

[Archijerej]

Not in the lineup today as per @Adam Michaels.

I'm not sure I can take any more bad news this season.

 

[PhysicalHABuse]

Not in the lineup today as per @Adam Michaels.

I'm not sure I can take any more bad news this season.

Do we know the extent of the injury? Did it look like something that would keep him out for a while?

 

[Habs]

That's quite an answer. Why are you insinuating that anyone said Heineman has "magical" potential? He projects to be a solid 3rd line winger with a powerful shot and looks like a sure NHLer. If he was an "A" prospect like you keep complaining that he isn't, we wouldn't have got him and a 1st for Toffoli.

I have a feeling you would think anyone we received as a prospect is a 'sure NHLer'. I'm done arguing, we are never going to agree.

 

[Habs]

The team is cap-strapped and they needed some cap relief as well as securing that extra 1st rounder. They achieved that. It’s a tough market to navigate with so many cap-strapped teams. This is why you’re seeing Chiarot being marketed at 50% retention — if you play the long game in this type of market, you risk not having the ability to use leverage since many suitors can ill afford one move, let alone an expensive acquisition and many of them will easily take themselves out of the running by making just the one move, so less suitors for that player at the deadline.

I think the Toffoli deal was the easiest way to get the ball rolling and for them to set the market on their other players for quick deals.

Again I don't mind moving him, do not like the return. Should have held out

 

[montreal]

Do we know the extent of the injury? Did it look like something that would keep him out for a while?

the vid was in the sticked prospect thread,

 

[billy piton]

I doubt Florida, and Calgary missed out on some magical potential .. c'mon..

because calgary and florida never miss on players potential. ahem, st.louis, ahem, boyle...

 

[montreal]

There are multiple reports that they liked Heineman since the draft and that they wanted to draft him (he was taken a few spots before Tuch, 43 vs 47).

who's they? Gorton or the Habs? Sorry I didn't see that, I only heard the part about Vinny video scouting him and thought that seemed odd. I saw the Yannick video and I know he is a video scout for the Habs as I have talked to him several times in the past on this site. If our Swedish scout liked him then I'm very interested to see how it goes as I'm hoping we keep him as I love the Norlinder pick even if it doesn't work out, that's the kind of player I want us going for in the 3rd round.

 

[26Mats]

I think we could have gotten a little more, but looking forward, we really didn’t need TT, he wanted a chance to compete (not on rebuilding team), and by the time Habs will be ready to compete, TTs great contract will be over. I think the two pieces we got will almost definitely play for the Habs (if the avoid injury), and will be ready to play soon enough to join our emerging core. .

We also gain a bit of cap space immediately, which could help as we move towards trade deadline.

I also wanted to move Toffoli for futures. I'm just saying it wasn't clear to me might have gotten more - though we also might have gotten less.

I think Todfoli's a really good scorer, and solid defensively. I think he might light it up on a good offensive team like Calgary. I think ot might be that his numbers were down in LA and this year in Montreal, because those weren't good offensive teams. I think ot might be that his numbers in Vancouver and here last year are really what he's capable of, which is pretty similar to Pacioretty. But Pacioretty got a much higher return - or at least he got the one piece I would hope to get in any sell off of a good player deal: a really good prospect or a lottery pick. Suzuki qualified as a really good prospect. As MB said at the time, he was the key to the deal.

I would try to get as many of those type of prospects and lottery picks as possible, even without getting secondary pieces like the 2nd, Tatar, Emile, etc... but that just may not be possible with Toffoli amd Petry anymore. I hope Price can return to form and get us one.

 

[PhysicalHABuse]

the vid was in the sticked prospect thread,

Looks like a high hit…..likely a concussion.

 

[eklund the clown]

I am really interested to see if a Chiarot trade does happen by this weekend because it will be another tell on how Hughes wants to be known in terms of trades.

With Toffoli he said he wasn't concerned about the market establishing itself so that he got the very best return. He had an expectation and if somebody met that, the trade would be done.

Similarly if he voiced that any team who is interested in Chiarot needs to put in its best offer, and Chiarot is traded within a few days of that, he is establishing his credibility.

Very unlike MB approach. MB would put in stink bids, be constantly on the phone and trying to eke out that extra asset in a trade. MB loved the wheeling and dealing buzz. Hughes is coming across the as the polar opposite. He doesn't care about maximizing an assets value. He is doing things more methodically, structured, under control.

I think we are giving Hughes way too much credit or lack there of.Hughes has zero GM experience.Gorton is making the deals and Hughes probably has 25% input at best at this point.

 

[Schooner Guy]

I have a feeling you would think anyone we received as a prospect is a 'sure NHLer'. I'm done arguing, we are never going to agree.

Well that's quite a difference from you telling us he's not an "A" prospect or "magical". You're all over the map dude!

 

[morhilane]

who's they? Gorton or the Habs? Sorry I didn't see that, I only heard the part about Vinny video scouting him and thought that seemed odd. I saw the Yannick video and I know he is a video scout for the Habs as I have talked to him several times in the past on this site. If our Swedish scout liked him then I'm very interested to see how it goes as I'm hoping we keep him as I love the Norlinder pick even if it doesn't work out, that's the kind of player I want us going for in the 3rd round.

Heineman did an interview with TVASport.ca (in french) after the trade. He says his agent told him Montréal was very interested at the draft but Florida took him first. He mention that he talked a lot to the Habs Swedish scout pre-draft and Lehman called him after he was traded to the Habs (another person from the Habs also called him).

 

[26Mats]

I think we are giving Hughes way too much credit or lack there of.Hughes has zero GM experience.Gorton is making the deals and Hughes probably has 25% input at best at this point.

And, while it seems Gorton did a good job getting the Rangers re-tooled, I'm not sure he was the best with trades of vets for futures. He traded McDonagh and J.T. Miller for a 1st, Bowden, and Namestnikov.

That's an awful return for those two players.