Value of: Elias Pettersson

[HairyKneel]

Wouldn't it make more sense for Vancouver (if Pettersson is traded) to go for picks? Sell Demko, Hughes & Kuzmenko too and do a total re-build from the ground up.

You realize there is a cap in the league right? When is the last time a team torched 30 million worth of players for picks and prospects?

 

[absolute garbage]

7 assets for 1 player isn't going to happen, unless you meant one of Bean/Peeke/Ceulemans/Bemström, instead of 3 of them.

Not to mention 2 unprotected 1sts and a guy taken 5th oa two years ago. Some of these demands are beyond ridiculous. No player I can think of has fetched that kind of return in the cap Era

Number of assets isn't really relevant, it's the quality of them.

Bemström is just a thrown-in body as he's a tweener with no real value, and Peeke/Bean wouldn't fetch much either. Ceulemans is a decent prospect but nothing great. I just thought those 3 could have some usefulness in Canucks' roster/system, even if they don't have that much value.

The core of that proposal is really Johnson (who likely will be a good player), one of Chinakhov/Marchenko (could become a goal scoring winger), and two 1sts which I would assume would be fairly late considering the improvements CBJ has already made and of course having EP in the lineup would push them even higher. But hey, maybe you could even throw top 10 protections to those picks.

Personally I think CBJ would prefer to make that trade over trading Jiricek. Those assets, even if high in quantity and some being good and some decent, are largely expendable from CBJ's view, where as Jiricek isn't. Again, if I'm a CBJ fan and I look at where the team is sitting currently, I make that trade over say Johnson+Jiricek for EP.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Take a look at what Winnipeg and Calgary got in their respective returns despite "dealing <insert> player as a rental." Keep in mind, PLD more or less limited his options to Montreal and LA while Tkachuk didn't want to play for Canada. Both ended up with huge returns relatively speaking.

Pettersson wants to play for a winning team. If it reaches the point of him not wanting to stay in Vancouver, he's not going to restrict where he's going outside of the basement dwellers lest he be forced to stay for however longer his arbitration hearing forces him to.

This whole "player is a rental. He'll get nothing" just hasn't played out at all how people insist. It's almost like age and production have a huge factor. A 24 top tier center being available means Vancouver will have tons of options even if Pettersson has some restrictions. That means a bidding war.

Calgary and Winnipeg did not get a lot for Tkachuk and PLD precisely for those reasons. I don't know how anyone could look at those returns and be happy.

Calgary - Got the right to pay Huberdeau $1M more than Tkachuk, and watch him put up 55 points last season. They're on the hook for 8 more years of him and he's over 30. On that contract he's not a valuable; although he still has great possession stats. Weeger is a solid player, but he's also signed until 37 at a decent sized cap hit. There's also a cap protected 1st, and a C+ tier prospect.

Winnipeg - Vilardi is the clear center piece of a deal which included Ifallo and Kupari as little more than ballast. Vilardi has a chance to show more, and Kupari could too, and the 2nd from Montreal should be early.

I'm not sure you couldn't make the argument Winnipeg got the better deal giving up less. Calgary destroyed their long term and short term cap; while getting worse both now and in the future. Unless Huberdeau bounces back in a big way while maintaining form well into his 30s or Schwindt shocks everyone by becoming a top player.

It's pretty clear these limited destination players with big salary requirements are often scuffed assets.

 

[majormajor]

Yeah it's a beyond generous offer. For a Columbus trade I would probably do Johnson and Jiricek straight up, thought it seems like Jiricek is considered to be untouchable by Jackets fans.

For me Johnson + Jiricek would not even be considered. I think they'll both be great players. But the Canucks could pick one (yes Jiricek if they want) with some big pluses on the table (Mateychuk, Sillinger, Ceulemans, 1sts, etc... )

Calgary and Winnipeg did not get a lot for Tkachuk and PLD precisely for those reasons. I don't know how anyone could look at those returns and be happy.

Calgary - Got the right to pay Huberdeau $1M more than Tkachuk, and watch him put up 55 points last season. They're on the hook for 8 more years of him and he's over 30. On that contract he's not a valuable; although he still has great possession stats. Weeger is a solid player, but he's also signed until 37 at a decent sized cap hit. There's also a cap protected 1st, and a C+ tier prospect.

This is 100% hindsight after a rough season. After the trade folks were very surprised with how much the Flames got and thought it set them up nicely to keep their contention window open.

 

[innitfam]

For me Johnson + Jiricek would not even be considered. I think they'll both be great players. But the Canucks could pick one (yes Jiricek if they want) with some big pluses on the table (Mateychuk, Sillinger, Ceulemans, 1sts, etc... )

Johnson, Mateychuk, 1st would satisfy this Canucks fan

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

For me Johnson + Jiricek would not even be considered. I think they'll both be great players. But the Canucks could pick one (yes Jiricek if they want) with some big pluses on the table (Mateychuk, Sillinger, Ceulemans, 1sts, etc... )


This is 100% hindsight after a rough season. After the trade folks were very surprised with how much the Flames got and thought it set them up nicely to keep their contention window open.

There is no way people could pretend to be surprised Huberdeau didn't continue to outplay his previous career best year by 25% after turning 30.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Take a look at what Winnipeg and Calgary got in their respective returns despite "dealing <insert> player as a rental." Keep in mind, PLD more or less limited his options to Montreal and LA while Tkachuk didn't want to play for Canada. Both ended up with huge returns relatively speaking.

Pettersson wants to play for a winning team. If it reaches the point of him not wanting to stay in Vancouver, he's not going to restrict where he's going outside of the basement dwellers lest he be forced to stay for however longer his arbitration hearing forces him to.

This whole "player is a rental. He'll get nothing" just hasn't played out at all how people insist. It's almost like age and production have a huge factor. A 24 top tier center being available means Vancouver will have tons of options even if Pettersson has some restrictions. That means a bidding war.

Dubois was limited to LAK once he opened up the bidding. Montreal was not going to offer anything but futures. Probably LA was the only legitimate bidder. Dubois was not a rental. If he wasn't guaranteed to sign there would not have been a trade.

 

[majormajor]

There is no way people could pretend to be surprised Huberdeau didn't continue to outplay his previous career best year by 25% after turning 30.

People expected much more from Huberdeau than he delivered.

Stop pretending that isn't obvious.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Calgary and Winnipeg did not get a lot for Tkachuk and PLD precisely for those reasons. I don't know how anyone could look at those returns and be happy.

Calgary - Got the right to pay Huberdeau $1M more than Tkachuk, and watch him put up 55 points last season. They're on the hook for 8 more years of him and he's over 30. On that contract he's not a valuable; although he still has great possession stats. Weeger is a solid player, but he's also signed until 37 at a decent sized cap hit. There's also a cap protected 1st, and a C+ tier prospect.

Winnipeg - Vilardi is the clear center piece of a deal which included Ifallo and Kupari as little more than ballast. Vilardi has a chance to show more, and Kupari could too, and the 2nd from Montreal should be early.

I'm not sure you couldn't make the argument Winnipeg got the better deal giving up less. Calgary destroyed their long term and short term cap; while getting worse both now and in the future. Unless Huberdeau bounces back in a big way while maintaining form well into his 30s or Schwindt shocks everyone by becoming a top player.

It's pretty clear these limited destination players with big salary requirements are often scuffed assets.

As noted already, this a massive benefit of hindsight. Just go look up the thread. Calgary was near unanimously declared the winner and predicted to go on a massive run last season. Nobody expected them to fall off the cliff the did and Huberdeau to have the biggest point decline in NHL history. At the time of that trade, it looked like an absolute win fall for the Flames.

The key factor here is Winnipeg got significantly more than anyone here predicted, and with much more restrictions than Pettersson will have in a hypothetical trade. PLD essentially said Montreal or bust, then added a few teams (or just LA for all we know) when it became clear the Habs weren't giving up anything major for him. Pettersson simply wants to play for a winner.

Not only will the Canucks have a much larger pool to work with, he's a much better player than PLD. It's absurd to think teams won't offer the likes of a Nemec or Jiricek type prospect.

You think a team like Columbus, who has desperately needed a #1 center for the last decade is going to play hardball knowing they'll absolutely be in a bidding war? Not saying they're the ones pulling the trigger but just a quick example.

It's incredibly rare for a 25 year old, number 1 center to potentially be available via trade. Even teams cap strapped will make room. Vegas did when they had a chance at Eichel.

 

[My3Sons]

As noted already, this a massive benefit of hindsight. Just go look up the thread. Calgary was near unanimously declared the winner and predicted to go on a massive run last season. Nobody expected them to fall off the cliff the did and Huberdeau to have the biggest point decline in NHL history. At the time of that trade, it looked like an absolute win fall for the Flames.

The key factor here is Winnipeg got significantly more than anyone here predicted, and with much more restrictions than Pettersson will have in a hypothetical trade. PLD essentially said Montreal or bust, then added a few teams (or just LA for all we know) when it became clear the Habs weren't giving up anything major for him. Pettersson simply wants to play for a winner.

Not only will the Canucks have a much larger pool to work with, he's a much better player than PLD. It's absurd to think teams won't offer the likes of a Nemec or Jiricek type prospect.

You think a team like Columbus, who has desperately needed a #1 center for the last decade is going to play hardball knowing they'll absolutely be in a bidding war? Not saying they're the ones pulling the trigger but just a quick example.

It's incredibly rare for a 25 year old, number 1 center to potentially be available via trade. Even teams cap strapped will make room. Vegas did when they had a chance at Eichel.

I keep hearing that but it doesn’t really impress me as some sort of amazing return for PLD. It was one good but not great player who might improve and some filler. Maybe a similar type return would be something like EP for Chytl and Lafreniere from the NYR? I’m sure Van fans would be excited but the reality is Vancouver would not win a trade like that.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

As noted already, this a massive benefit of hindsight. Just go look up the thread. Calgary was near unanimously declared the winner and predicted to go on a massive run last season. Nobody expected them to fall off the cliff the did and Huberdeau to have the biggest point decline in NHL history. At the time of that trade, it looked like an absolute win fall for the Flames.

The key factor here is Winnipeg got significantly more than anyone here predicted, and with much more restrictions than Pettersson will have in a hypothetical trade. PLD essentially said Montreal or bust, then added a few teams (or just LA for all we know) when it became clear the Habs weren't giving up anything major for him. Pettersson simply wants to play for a winner.

Not only will the Canucks have a much larger pool to work with, he's a much better player than PLD. It's absurd to think teams won't offer the likes of a Nemec or Jiricek type prospect.

You think a team like Columbus, who has desperately needed a #1 center for the last decade is going to play hardball knowing they'll absolutely be in a bidding war? Not saying they're the ones pulling the trigger but just a quick example.

It's incredibly rare for a 25 year old, number 1 center to potentially be available via trade. Even teams cap strapped will make room. Vegas did when they had a chance at Eichel.

The Poll had them at just over 50%, if that's near unanimous than I guess you're right. These things are going to be skewed by a simple factor:

People are just absolutely unwilling to believe that most player decline near 30

WPG got nothing of any note for PLD. Something around 2 2nds in total value.

Teams are going to offer good things for Petterson, but they're not going to do things like Johnson & Jiricek. Cap is too valuable.

Vancouver has no cap space, they can't take more than 2M back. How many teams do you see with the ability to add this contract where he'd want to play? The pool they have to work with isn't that large.

There are only 5 teams with sufficient cap space: Detroit, Nashville, Buffalo, Chicago, Anaheim.

Detroit - Can't sign him because their cap would implode next year. They're not really a contender but they'd be a playoff team with him.
Nashville - They could, they don't have high end prospects. Also probably not a contender
Buffalo - They could, they have high end prospects. Possibly a contender with him certainly a playoff team with him. How do they afford him next year?
Chicago - High end prospects, not sure this move fits where they are in their rebuild. Probably not a contender right away. It's an intriguing landing spot.
Anaheim - They could certainly use everything he brings to the table, and they have prospects glare. But they're not really a contender or even a playoff certainty

Nashville can't make a suitable package, Detroit can't resign him; and it seems unlikely he'd go to Anaheim. You're left with Buffalo/Chicago.

If you want to squint at it and say Columbus finds someone to eat cap maybe they squeak into the conversation. They certainly can fit him next year.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

People expected much more from Huberdeau than he delivered.

Stop pretending that isn't obvious.

If people expected a 29 year old coming off a contract year where he was suddenly 25% better than any other point in his career to look more like that than the rest of his seasons; that's on them.

 

[majormajor]

If people expected a 29 year old coming off a contract year where he was suddenly 25% better than any other point in his career to look more like that than the rest of his seasons; that's on them.

They did not expect that much and that isn't being suggested here by anyone. You characterized Huberdeau as a 55 pt player, and people expected a lot more than that from him. It's purely a lame hindsight argument to call him a 55 pt player. At the time people thought that the Flames did much better than expected in the trade.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

They did not expect that much and that isn't being suggested here by anyone. You characterized Huberdeau as a 55 pt player, and people expected a lot more than that from him. It's purely a lame hindsight argument to call him a 55 pt player. At the time people thought that the Flames did much better than expected in the trade.

I said he put up 55 last season, he did. Currently I think he's about a 70 point player if I were to "characterize" him. He's a good player, but not worth 10.5M until he's 38.

 

[majormajor]

I said he put up 55 last season, he did. Currently I think he's about a 70 point player if I were to "characterize" him. He's a good player, but not worth 10.5M until he's 38.

I'd say 70 pts is a reasonable expectation for him now, after last season. But a year ago nearly everyone would have expected more (that does not imply they expected 115 pts, I shouldn't have to say this).

 

[dirtydanglez]

if detroit isn't going to build through the draft this is who they should target. i think larkin is better as a higher end 2c.

 

[biturbo19]

 

[quat]

The Poll had them at just over 50%, if that's near unanimous than I guess you're right. These things are going to be skewed by a simple factor:

People are just absolutely unwilling to believe that most player decline near 30

WPG got nothing of any note for PLD. Something around 2 2nds in total value.

Teams are going to offer good things for Petterson, but they're not going to do things like Johnson & Jiricek. Cap is too valuable.

Vancouver has no cap space, they can't take more than 2M back. How many teams do you see with the ability to add this contract where he'd want to play? The pool they have to work with isn't that large.

There are only 5 teams with sufficient cap space: Detroit, Nashville, Buffalo, Chicago, Anaheim.

Detroit - Can't sign him because their cap would implode next year. They're not really a contender but they'd be a playoff team with him.
Nashville - They could, they don't have high end prospects. Also probably not a contender
Buffalo - They could, they have high end prospects. Possibly a contender with him certainly a playoff team with him. How do they afford him next year?
Chicago - High end prospects, not sure this move fits where they are in their rebuild. Probably not a contender right away. It's an intriguing landing spot.
Anaheim - They could certainly use everything he brings to the table, and they have prospects glare. But they're not really a contender or even a playoff certainty

Nashville can't make a suitable package, Detroit can't resign him; and it seems unlikely he'd go to Anaheim. You're left with Buffalo/Chicago.

If you want to squint at it and say Columbus finds someone to eat cap maybe they squeak into the conversation. They certainly can fit him next year.

you don't think any other teams might try and shed a few players to make room for a player like Pettersson? From this post, it seems like RFA Pettersson has very little value.

 

[rypper]

If Vancouver trades Pettersson (which they won't) but that's 7.35m off the cap. That would open up flexiblity in trades.

 

[LemonSauceD]

If Vancouver trades Pettersson (which they won't) but that's 7.35m off the cap. That would open up flexiblity in trades.

Gonna cost us a 1st, cap dumps and stuff )

 

[jackjohnson]

Petersson wont be traded. Lets just end this useless thread about his perceived value. They wont trade a young phenom for a bunch of peanuts or only picks either because he would have a very high value in an open market if he was ever traded.

 

[NyQuil]

I remember thinking that the guy lost the race but still owns a Ferrari and is dating a beautiful woman while pretty boy is making a cop’s salary.

 

[biturbo19]

I remember thinking that the guy lost the race but still owns a Ferrari and is dating a beautiful woman while pretty boy is making a cop’s salary.

 

[Intermission]

Marcus Pettersson to your particular NHL hockey club?

 

[Qwijibo]

Petersson wont be traded. Lets just end this useless thread about his perceived value. They wont trade a young phenom for a bunch of peanuts or only picks either because he would have a very high value in an open market if he was ever traded.

I'm sure a lot of Calgary fans didn't think Tkachuk would ever be traded either. It's not the most likely outcome but it is possible and worth a conversation. There's nothing requiring you to participate