Value of: Elias Pettersson

[Peter Griffin]

I clarified the "season before injury" which is what I meant. I've said that multiple times now. Eichel was 10th in scoring. EP was 10th in scoring now. I literally said this next season will be the most important for his value. The similarities are pretty obvious. To act like there isn't any seems like a cope.

I haven’t, in fact I said in post #248 of this thread that “Eichel trade is probably closest” with the caveat that EP is coming off an excellent season and hasn’t just had a disappointing season followed by major unproven surgery. My whole issue was with you incorrectly saying Eichel was coming off a top 10 scoring season. He wasn’t. He was coming off a disappointing season and MAJOR surgery. That clearly affected his value. Only if EP has a disappointing season that ends up in a major surgery would his value be similar to Eichel’s. Weird outcome to bank on.

 

[Weltschmerz]

And Pettersson could have as many as 8 as evidenced by the Tkachuk trade.

Yeah that trade worked out great for the flames.

 

[Peter Griffin]

That's not how it works. EP has to actually want to sign long term with that team. When we traded Jack we could've sent him anywhere. If EP doesn't want to sign with that team they won't trade for him. Almost acts like a NMC.

Signed with term is much more valuable than RFA rights.

You don’t think there would be multiple teams interested in EP? How many teams were actually interested in an injured Eichel? I would say it’s probably a similar amount if not more for EP.

Yeah that trade worked out great for the flames.

So because Huberdeau cratered that means an EP trade would work out terribly for Vancouver? I get they won’t “win” a trade, but weird point.

 

[PatLaFontaineASMR]

You don’t think there would be multiple teams interested in EP? How many teams were actually interested in an injured Eichel? I would say it’s probably a similar amount if not more for EP.

What matters is what teams would EP be interested in? That's what matters. Not how many teams would be interested in him. A team won't trade for him if he's not willing to sign long term.

 

[SRHRangers]

I don't think that person is a Habs fan and Habs wouldn't do that just because they'd want to add to Suzuki and Caufield, not replace them with Pettersson.

Habs offer would be something more like.

Kirby Dach
Habs 2024 1st around 10th (if it's 1st overall, I'd honestly deal for EP, but the rest would need to be edited)
2025 conditional 1st ( the 1st the Habs got from the flames and its only conditional, as the nucks now take on the same conditions the Habs have. Part of that condition is the ability to take Calgary's 1st this, but only if it's late, like 20th, or late. )
Adam Engstrom - not saying he's as good, but he put up similar point totals to Edvinsson and then had a really nice playoffs for a dman, solid prospect, but LD and furthest away from the NHL for the Habs, so most expendable)
Sean Farrell - small, but promising forward. Possibly the Habs best forward prospects with Roy, but Roy being drafted by the Habs and French makes it almost a non-factor for pretty much everyone. Not that there's a huge difference between himself and Farrell.
Joel Armia - 1 season left at not much. Should be able to return another pick.
2026 2nd(a little bit for EP, a little bit for taking on Armia

That's based on the offseason a year from now.

However, for fan proposals there's no point to even look at this if Johnson, Jiricek and whatever else that Cbus fan was offering is on the table. Take that and RUN.

I made that proposal. I'm not a CBJ fan.

But for a signed Petey, it's gonna hurt. And my offer was contingent on Petey signing with CBJ beforehand.

 

[Peter Griffin]

What matters is what teams would EP be interested in? That's what matters. Not how many teams would be interested in him. A team won't trade for him if he's not willing to sign long term.

Obviously. If EP pulls a Kesler I’ll agree.

 

[DyerMakar]

I haven’t, in fact I said in post #248 of this thread that “Eichel trade is probably closest” with the caveat that EP is coming off an excellent season and hasn’t just had a disappointing season followed by major unproven surgery. My whole issue was with you incorrectly saying Eichel was coming off a top 10 scoring season. He wasn’t. He was coming off a disappointing season and MAJOR surgery. That clearly affected his value. Only if EP has a disappointing season that ends up in a major surgery would his value be similar to Eichel’s. Weird outcome to bank on.

I've clarified multiple times I meant the season before he got injured. I mean it was pretty obvious when I showed the years.

 

[PatLaFontaineASMR]

Obviously. If EP pulls a Kesler I’ll agree.

So you agree that it's much different than Eichel were he was signed for 5 more years?

 

[Peter Griffin]

I've clarified multiple times I meant the season before he got injured. I mean it was pretty obvious when I showed the years.

So you agree then that they aren’t in a similar situation unless EP suffers a major injury and disappointing season next year.

 

[SRHRangers]

Also, off the top of my head, the last 100 point 24 yr old C that got traded for waw Jimmy Carson, and he was the centerpiece of the Gretzky to LA trade.

Roenick was 26 when dealt but wasn't coming off a 100 point season but had one in the bank.

 

[Bouboumaster]

EP

For

Suzuki
Caufield
Slaf
Habs 2nd.

 

[DyerMakar]

So you agree then that they aren’t in a similar situation unless EP suffers a major injury and disappointing season next year.

How are they not in a similar situation?

Both young centers. Both on bad teams. Both were 10th in scoring before the upcoming seasons.

 

[Weltschmerz]

You don’t think there would be multiple teams interested in EP? How many teams were actually interested in an injured Eichel? I would say it’s probably a similar amount if not more for EP.


So because Huberdeau cratered that means an EP trade would work out terribly for Vancouver? I get they won’t “win” a trade, but weird point.

Well it was your example.

 

[Peter Griffin]

So you agree that it's much different than Eichel were he was signed for 5 more years?

Much different? Not really when you factor in that he was coming off a major injury that came with huge question marks. How many teams were actually interested in adding him under those conditions? How many teams would EP be willing to go to and sign longterm? Obviously nobody knows but Tkachuk was willing to go to as many as 5. Not sure EP would strongarm management if they’re willing to trade him a year early than necessary allowing him to sign with a chosen team sooner.

How are they not in a similar situation?

Both young centers. Both on bad teams. Both were 10th in scoring before the upcoming seasons.

You still don’t get it do you? You’re glossing over the entire 20/21 season and Eichel’s major injury. Only if Pettersson suffers a similar fate in 23/24 will you have a point.

 

[PatLaFontaineASMR]

Much different? Not really when you factor in that he was coming off a major injury that came with huge question marks. How many teams were actually interested in adding him under those conditions? How many teams would EP be willing to go to and sign longterm? Obviously nobody knows but Tkachuk was willing to go to as many as 5. Not sure EP would strongarm management if they’re willing to trade him a year early than necessary allowing him to sign with a chosen team sooner.

All of that is irrelevant. We're just talking about contract status. You acted like there is no difference between a guy that is already signed long term vs. a guy that has to negotiate a contract. There is a huge difference.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Well it was your example.

That a player can be signed to an extension and then traded? Yes, I thought that was a fairly obvious outcome but I guess not.

 

[Peter Griffin]

All of that is irrelevant. We're just talking about contract status. You acted like there is no difference between a guy that is already signed long term vs. a guy that has to negotiate a contract. There is a huge difference.

No I didn’t, I was comparing the two situations. If Eichel had never suffered that injury I would agree that his contract status would’ve been a big factor. But that injury situation I think eliminated some teams from being involved. If you disagree with that so be it. My point is that I think a similar amount of teams would be interested in EP with a longterm contract in place as there were with Eichel or Tkachuk. The issue being whether EP strong arms management like Kesler did which I conceded too.

 

[PatLaFontaineASMR]

No I didn’t, I was comparing the two situations. If Eichel had never suffered that injury I would agree that his contract status would’ve been a big factor. But that injury situation I think eliminated some teams from being involved. If you disagree with that so be it. My point is that I think a similar amount of teams would be interested in EP with a longterm contract in place as there were with Eichel or Tkachuk. The issue being whether EP strong arms management like Kesler did which I conceded too.

You did lol. Your response to someone saying Eichel had 4 years left was

"And Pettersson could have as many as 8 as evidenced by the Tkachuk trade"

 

[Weltschmerz]

No I didn’t, I was comparing the two situations. If Eichel had never suffered that injury I would agree that his contract status would’ve been a big factor. But that injury situation I think eliminated some teams from being involved. If you disagree with that so be it. My point is that I think a similar amount of teams would be interested in EP with a longterm contract in place as there were with Eichel or Tkachuk. The issue being whether EP strong arms management like Kesler did which I conceded too.

Both the Injury and the uncertain contract status are a risk for the interested teams.

 

[Peter Griffin]

You did lol. Your response to someone saying Eichel had 4 years left was

"And Pettersson could have as many as 8 as evidenced by the Tkachuk trade"

You don't think there's anyway Vancouver could sign EP for 8 years and trade him exactly like Calgary did with Tkachuk?


How about you re-read my direct response to you when you asked this question earlier in the thread?

That's not how it works. EP has to actually want to sign long term with that team. When we traded Jack we could've sent him anywhere. If EP doesn't want to sign with that team they won't trade for him. Almost acts like a NMC.

Signed with term is much more valuable than RFA rights.

You don’t think there would be multiple teams interested in EP? How many teams were actually interested in an injured Eichel? I would say it’s probably a similar amount if not more for EP.

I was comparing their two situations. A seriously injured Eichel signed to a long term deal, and a presumably uninjured EP who could be willing to re-sign longterm with 5~ teams. The market for both players is probably pretty similar. The exception was if EP strongarms the Canucks which I conceded to in the very next interaction.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Both the Injury and the uncertain contract status are a risk for the interested teams.

If EP is traded without an extension in place, sure.

 

[Fogelhund]

You don’t think there would be multiple teams interested in EP? How many teams were actually interested in an injured Eichel? I would say it’s probably a similar amount if not more for EP.

The question being, who needs a #1C, is a team that is competitive, has the cap space, and capital to get the trade done. I don't think that would be a big list... but then again, all you need is two teams for the price to bid right up.

 

[PatLaFontaineASMR]

You don't think there's anyway Vancouver could sign EP for 8 years and trade him exactly like Calgary did with Tkachuk?


How about you re-read my direct response to you when you asked this question earlier in the thread?

That's not the point. Obviously EP will sign an extension with whatever team trades for him. There's still a big difference between a guy needing to negotiate a long term deal with a team & a guy already being signed for 5 years. Much more valuable for a guy to already be signed long term. You just don't seem to want to acknowledge that.

The question being, who needs a #1C, is a team that is competitive, has the cap space, and capital to get the trade done. I don't think that would be a big list... but then again, all you need is two teams for the price to bid right up.

Yea and if EP would actually want to sign with that team.

He will get a good return if he's actually traded, but some of the proposals from vancouver fans are insane. Just setting yourself up for disappointment.

 

[Peter Griffin]

That's not the point. Obviously EP will sign an extension with whatever team trades for him. There's still a big difference between a guy needing to negotiate a long term deal with a team & a guy already being signed for 5 years. Much more valuable for a guy to already be signed long term. You just don't seem to want to acknowledge that.

And you don't seem to get that trade value is largely based on the amount of interested suitors.

 

[Peter Griffin]

The question being, who needs a #1C, is a team that is competitive, has the cap space, and capital to get the trade done. I don't think that would be a big list... but then again, all you need is two teams for the price to bid right up.

If EP has a similar season as this year I would be surprised if at least 5 teams weren’t interested. A player like EP doesn’t come around often and you do whatever it takes to land him if possible.