Elias Pettersson vs Tim Stützle

[Korpse]

While that's true, it's not like he was far off prior to doing it.

66 in 71.
66 in 68.
21 in 26.

I think if he gets his head right, he can be a perennial 100+ point player.

Okay. My point being that generally players don’t peak offensively before 300gp. It holds true for so many other players. Mackinnon, Matthews, Draisital being some other examples. They had big increases in production during their 5th season. I’m still unclear about what you think Stutzle’s level is if you feel that Pettersson will still score at that level even in a down year.

 

[Xspyrit]

I think the poster is suggesting that Pettersson has been better when comparing years straight up rather than at similar developments, so would take the more proven player. Ie, Stutzle might have the potential to surpass him but he’d take Pettersson until proven otherwise.

That said, the difference in their D+3 seasons is exaggerated by the Covid shutdown and league scoring rising. Both finished 20th in league scoring and Stutzle was only 6 point ahead in adjusted numbers (85 to 79).

Although Pettersson is pissing me off to the point where I’d probably make this trade easily at this point.

Yeah I understand what he meant but is it factually true though?

He said : "Petterson has been better than Stützle at pretty much every steps IMO"

For those who know me and understand me, I am heavily fact driven so that's what popped for me right away :

TS D+1 : 29 pts in 53 GP
TS D+2 : 58 pts in 79 GP
TS D+3 : 90 pts in 78 GP
TS D+4 : 70 pts in 75 GP
TS D+5 : 6 pts in 4 GP (season underway)

EP D+1 : Sweden
EP D+2 : 66 pts in 71 GP
EP D+3 : 66 pts in 68 GP
EP D+4 : 21 pts in 26 GP
EP D+5 : 68 pts in 80 GP

I do think Stutzle is going to beat 68 pts in 80 GP this season, if he stays relatively healthy

Stutzle D+3 seasons wasn't the Covid shortened season. TS D+3 scoring was 3.18 goals per team per game, in EP's D+3, it was 3.02 per team per game, not a whooping difference.

That's great but I think the question is who would you rather have going forward and for me it's EP40 even with the contract and I like Stutzle but he has to actually do that and I'm not sure that he ever will.

Do what? Produce better pretty much all the way?

Sure, Stutzle is not guaranteed to reach Pettersson's best season in his D+6 but we'll see in 2025-26 as it will be Stutzle D+6

As of now, he is still 22 and developing

Hey brother you aren’t being sincere.

...

Both are great players and can definitely be compared , but let’s stay honest for our own good and the sake of a real argument

I suggest you read my 2 posts above. "Sincerity" for me comes from facts.

 

[Regal]

Yeah I understand what he meant but is it factually true though?

He said : "Petterson has been better than Stützle at pretty much every steps IMO"

For those who know me and understand me, I am heavily fact driven so that's what popped for me right away :

TS D+1 : 29 pts in 53 GP
TS D+2 : 58 pts in 79 GP
TS D+3 : 90 pts in 78 GP
TS D+4 : 70 pts in 75 GP
TS D+5 : 6 pts in 4 GP (season underway)

EP D+1 : Sweden
EP D+2 : 66 pts in 71 GP
EP D+3 : 66 pts in 68 GP
EP D+4 : 21 pts in 26 GP
EP D+5 : 68 pts in 80 GP

I do think Stutzle is going to beat 68 pts in 80 GP this season, if he stays relatively healthy

Stutzle D+3 seasons wasn't the Covid shortened season. TS D+3 scoring was 3.18 goals per team per game, in EP's D+3, it was 3.02 per team per game, not a whooping difference.

But comparing each developmental season is not what I’m suggesting the poster meant though. I think they meant Pettersson was better last year, he was better the year before and the year before that, etc, and suggesting that until Stutzle actually has a better year, they’ll take the more proven player, regardless of age/development. And if you know this, I’m not sure what the point of going over the development years is other than arguing the semantics of what was written.

The scoring differences between the years are evident in the leaders. There were 38 point per game players in 22-23 and only 22 in 19-20. It’s not the difference between the 80s and now but it still closes some of the gap.

 

[Golden_Jet]

But comparing each developmental season is not what I’m suggesting the poster meant though. I think they meant Pettersson was better last year, he was better the year before and the year before that, etc, and suggesting that until Stutzle actually has a better year, they’ll take the more proven player, regardless of age/development. And if you know this, I’m not sure what the point of going over the development years is other than arguing the semantics of what was written.

The scoring differences between the years are evident in the leaders. There were 38 point per game players in 22-23 and only 22 in 19-20. It’s not the difference between the 80s and now but it still closes some of the gap.

Both are true
Comparing D+1,2,3….. Stutzle wins

Comparing a 3 year older player year to year, Pete wins.

 

[Regal]

Both are true
Comparing D+1,2,3….. Stutzle wins

Comparing a 3 year older player year to year, Pete wins.

For sure, that’s why I think it was important to know which way the poster was looking at it.

 

[Answer]

The only elephant in the room I will point out here is that fact you got Stutzle's contract completely wrong

 

[Golden_Jet]

Let's address the elephant in the room

Would you rather have Elias Pettersson @11.6 Million for 8 years or Tim Stützle @8.35 Million for 5 years

7 years not 5

I'd like to shoutout and honor my dear Senators friend @NyQuil and my dear Canucks friend @SillyRabbit with this fun, thought provoking poll


Thanks guys, let's have a good discussion here too.


cheers

Pete is UFA 2032
Tim is UFA 2031 - you have Stutzle contract wrong as @Answer mentioned.

 

[Coffee]

7 years not 5


Pete is UFA 2032
Tim is UFA 2031 - you have Stutzle contract wrong as @Answer mentioned.

The only elephant in the room I will point out here is that fact you got Stutzle's contract completely wrong

I apologize from my end. I have fixed it.

 

[Xspyrit]

But comparing each developmental season is not what I’m suggesting the poster meant though. I think they meant Pettersson was better last year, he was better the year before and the year before that, etc, and suggesting that until Stutzle actually has a better year, they’ll take the more proven player, regardless of age/development. And if you know this, I’m not sure what the point of going over the development years is other than arguing the semantics of what was written.

The scoring differences between the years are evident in the leaders. There were 38 point per game players in 22-23 and only 22 in 19-20. It’s not the difference between the 80s and now but it still closes some of the gap.

ok so Pettersson was better in his D+7 than the other guy was in his D+4 when that guy was playing through injury all season as well?

He was also better in his D+6 than the other guy in his D+3? ok and better in his D+5 than the guy in his D+2?

I mean, hard to be more fair and relevant! Comparing "regardless of age/development" is just DUMB

 

[SillyRabbit]

Stutzle: 9GP 5G 9A 14PTS
Pettersson: 8GP 1G 3A 4PTS

Stutzle with the same amount of points tonight as Pettersson has on the entire season.

This one isn’t looking great so far.

 

[Regal]

ok so Pettersson was better in his D+7 than the other guy was in his D+4 when that guy was playing through injury all season as well?

He was also better in his D+6 than the other guy in his D+3? ok and better in his D+5 than the guy in his D+2?

I mean, hard to be more fair and relevant! Comparing "regardless of age/development" is just DUMB

No, comparing players where they stand today is actually pretty standard stuff because they all develop differently and we can’t take projections for granted. It’s a little absurd that you’d suggest otherwise. There’s a bunch of players over the years who didn’t have a D3 season as good as Stutzle but are/were better than Stutzle will likely ever be. Development and age are certainly considerations in any assessment, particularly going forward, but where they are today should also always a consideration. And this isn’t even an argument for Pettersson, who is playing like poop still, but just a general statement.

 

[Akrapovince]

Stützle vs Hughes is the real comparison.

 

[Bobby9]

Let’s address the elephant in the room

 

[Akrapovince]

Let’s address the elephant in the room

Petterson is digging himself such a big hole production wise that only a player like Petterson can dig himself out of.

That is the calibre of player that Petey is, that despite even a horrendous first quarter he can still put up close to triple digit points.

I’m just wondering if when the 52 points in 20 game stretch will come and if it will be too late for Vancouver.

 

[Phrasing]

Petterson is digging himself such a big hole production wise that only a player like Petterson can dig himself out of.

That is the calibre of player that Petey is, that despite even a horrendous first quarter he can still put up close to triple digit points.

I’m just wondering if when the 52 points in 20 game stretch will come and if it will be too late for Vancouver.

Nah Stutzle’s time has come. He good.

 

[Sens9292]

Stutzle has taken it to another level this season. That’s even after his 90 point season

 

[Killswitch]

Right this second Stutzle is one of the best in hockey

 

[Xspyrit]

Stutzle: 9GP 5G 9A 14PTS
Pettersson: 8GP 1G 3A 4PTS

Stutzle with the same amount of points tonight as Pettersson has on the entire season.

This one isn’t looking great so far.

I don't expect things to look like that at the end of the season but Stutzle is a player who will put the light on how some fans actually don't know that much about the game.

No, comparing players where they stand today is actually pretty standard stuff because they all develop differently and we can’t take projections for granted. It’s a little absurd that you’d suggest otherwise. There’s a bunch of players over the years who didn’t have a D3 season as good as Stutzle but are/were better than Stutzle will likely ever be. Development and age are certainly considerations in any assessment, particularly going forward, but where they are today should also always a consideration. And this isn’t even an argument for Pettersson, who is playing like poop still, but just a general statement.

What is absurd is that you're trying to double down on this.

I'll repeat and it is pretty simple :

Comparing "regardless of age/development" is just DUMB

 

[Regal]

What is absurd is that you're trying to double down on this.

I'll repeat and it is pretty simple :

Comparing "regardless of age/development" is just DUMB

You still seem to be misunderstanding what was being said. The phrase you took issue with initially was “better at every step of the way”, to which you then started comparing development seasons. I pointed out that this was in reference to a season to season comparison “regardless of age/development”, not comparing development years. This doesn’t mean the person was completely ignoring development and age at all in the poll question, and in fact specified that Pettersson was still young enough and the development years close enough that it didn’t supersede who was better now.

 

[NJ DevLolz]

Pettersson got absolutely smothered by Hischier last night

 

[Golden_Jet]

You still seem to be misunderstanding what was being said. The phrase you took issue with initially was “better at every step of the way”, to which you then started comparing development seasons. I pointed out that this was in reference to a season to season comparison “regardless of age/development”, not comparing development years. This doesn’t mean the person was completely ignoring development and age at all in the poll question, and in fact specified that Pettersson was still young enough and the development years close enough that it didn’t supersede who was better now.

There is 3+ years difference, yes Petey has had had more development time.
There is nothing wrong with comparing today, as there is nothing wrong with comparing at the same age levels.

Edit: I’d take Stutzle for 3.3 million less.

 

[Bgav]

Pettersson got absolutely smothered by Hischier last night

He's been awful in his last 40 games - not just yesterday.

It's been frustrating to watch

 

[Xspyrit]

You still seem to be misunderstanding what was being said. The phrase you took issue with initially was “better at every step of the way”, to which you then started comparing development seasons. I pointed out that this was in reference to a season to season comparison “regardless of age/development”, not comparing development years. This doesn’t mean the person was completely ignoring development and age at all in the poll question, and in fact specified that Pettersson was still young enough and the development years close enough that it didn’t supersede who was better now.

I'm not misunderstanding anything. Tim Stutzle is 22 y/o as we speak, Elias Pettersson is 3+ years older, OF COURSE he has been “better at every step of the way” as he should. It is simply stupid to compare them this way as they were nowhere near the same stages of development because of that 3+ years difference.

 

[NyQuil]

This poll was much more one-sided when it was made.

Change vote is a hell of a drug.

 

[Xirik]

This poll was much more one-sided when it was made.

Change vote is a hell of a drug.

I haven't voted yet, Debate and entertain me for my vote!