Player Discussion Elias Pettersson Talk | Also Chiropractors, the Medical Staff, and You

[strattonius]

Dude, if you just turned it down like 5 notches you might be able to make some good points. If you would read other people's posts you'd see that they're saying that it's up to the player and the coach to figure out how to make it work. Nobody thinks that he's playing well or is making excuses for him. We're just not hyperventilating and calling him names.

You need to turn it down 5 notches as well.

We are criticizing one of the top paid players in the league for his inconsistent play. It's not hating; it's not hyper-ventilating; it's not calling him names. It's genuine concern for a player of his pay and stature - he's not allowed to go missing for these stretches and it's completely reasonable to be frustrated and question where his head is at.

You've staked your claim that you're not worried but you'd be in the minority. To me it's a head in the sand type problem. I can't fathom not worrying about Pettersson when he plays like this.

 

[Ernie]

You need to turn it down 5 notches as well.

We are criticizing one of the top paid players in the league for his inconsistent play. It's not hating; it's not hyper-ventilating; it's not calling him names. It's genuine concern for a player of his pay and stature - he's not allowed to go missing for these stretches and it's completely reasonable to be frustrated and question where his head is at.

You've staked your claim that you're not worried but you'd be in the minority. To me it's a head in the sand type problem. I can't fathom not worrying about Pettersson when he plays like this.

All these things have been happening in this thread.

I'm more curious than concerned as to what is going on with Pettersson. And given that I'm a fan, I'm definitely cheering him on every time he's on the ice.

The team needs him to win, that much is true, just like we need a healthy Demko, something that is also utterly out of our control

 

[MS]

Dude, if you just turned it down like 5 notches you might be able to make some good points. If you would read other people's posts you'd see that they're saying that it's up to the player and the coach to figure out how to make it work. Nobody thinks that he's playing well or is making excuses for him. We're just not hyperventilating and calling him names.

Your posts said that, others didn't.

But again, having a system take you from a 100-point player to a 40-point player isn't 'they need to work it out'. It's 'that's unacceptable' from the player.

You said that Hughes would deserve some heat if he had a down season. Why does he deserve this? He's the same person that won Norris trophies, and yet for some reason he should have his feet held to the fire and somehow that will improve matters?

Again, what on earth are you talking about here?

Nobody thinks that criticizing players 'improves matters'. Nobody is posting here in an attempt to improve the team.

People are posting here because they want to express their opinions. If Quinn Hughes has a really crappy season, he will be criticized for it - maybe fairly, maybe unfairly depending on the circumstances. That's how it works.

If Pat Mahomes has a QB rating of 70 at the end of this season and KC misses the playoffs, he'll be torched for it. Part of being a superstar is that you get the accolades and the $$$ when things are going well but when they don't, you will be the guy held accountable.

You need to turn it down 5 notches as well.

We are criticizing one of the top paid players in the league for his inconsistent play. It's not hating; it's not hyper-ventilating; it's not calling him names. It's genuine concern for a player of his pay and stature - he's not allowed to go missing for these stretches and it's completely reasonable to be frustrated and question where his head is at.

You've staked your claim that you're not worried but you'd be in the minority. To me it's a head in the sand type problem. I can't fathom not worrying about Pettersson when he plays like this.

Thank you.

 

[Ernie]

Your posts said that, others didn't.

But again, having a system take you from a 100-point player to a 40-point player isn't 'they need to work it out'. It's 'that's unacceptable' from the player.



Again, what on earth are you talking about here?

Nobody thinks that criticizing players 'improves matters'. Nobody is posting here in an attempt to improve the team.

People are posting here because they want to express their opinions. If Quinn Hughes has a really crappy season, he will be criticized for it - maybe fairly, maybe unfairly depending on the circumstances. That's how it works.

If Pat Mahomes has a QB rating of 70 at the end of this season and KC misses the playoffs, he'll be torched for it. Part of being a superstar is that you get the accolades and the $$$ when things are going well but when they don't, you will be the guy held accountable.

I am going to take my own advice and stop responding to people who are going off here.

 

[Hodgy]

Lots of good discussion. This is a complex issue and we likely will never know truly what is causing Pettersson's struggles. I am, at least, happy to see that people are looking beyond his patellar tendinitis which was used by many to almost solely excuse his poor play.

In terms of the whole idea that criticizing Pettersson is bad and that we need to support him (mostly @Ernie ), I am left almost speechless given the incredible reception Pettersson had by the fans during the playoffs. Never had I ever seen a player play so poorly but have his name chanted in Rogers Arena as the fan base was collectively trying to encourage him on. And this was a concerted ever. I think it was Halford and Brough that came up with the idea of getting behind Pettersson to hopefully spur on some better player.

So not only have fans not turned on him, at least publicly and openly, the exact opposite has been true.

But in terms of discussing or even criticizing Pettersson's play on this forum: who cares. This is a niche forum with what amounts to an incredibly small proportion of the Vancouver fan base. If the fanbase in general openly turns on Pettersson it won't be because of HF, it will be because he plays terribly for so long (and at least appears to stop trying). But even then, what will likely get to Pettersson more in that event, is the media. The media will ask him the "tough" questions, and they will be looking to create a story. And so I really don't think its going to be the general fanbase that gets to Pettersson, if anything actually does, its going to be the media. Its going to be Pettersson continually needing to answer questions about is poor play.

 

[F A N]

There are a multitude of players who don't like the microscope of the Canadian market, and then suddenly they're winning the cup in a place it never snows.

Some players manage to play through the noise, but it's been cited as a reason that players avoid Canadian cities, and a big reason that a Canadian team hasn't won a cup in an almost statistically impossible length of time.

Usually these players aren't star players though. Can you think of a star #1C (or top 10-15 player in the league) who choked under the pressure of a Canadian market who goes on to lead a US team to a Cup victory?

All I'm saying is shut up and let this player get through whatever funk he's in. Ranting and raving on the Internet is just going to do your own mental health in and do nothing to improve whatever he's deal with.

With respect, I don't get this mindset. This is a discussion board. If you want to start a Petey appreciation thread and have mods limit the discussion in that thread to positive posts you can try and do that. I also don't expect my post or anyone's post here to have an effect on Petey's on ice performance. It may impact how the local media approaches their work but I don't think it's fair to blame HF discussions if the local media amplifies our talking points to the point it affects Petey's on ice performance. I also hope that, in person, fans are supportive of Petey and don't do anything to harass him (including on his social media page) or boo him.

Certainly, if posting here or reading posts here is negatively impacting your mental health I do suggest taking a break from here and do what you can to take care of yourself.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

You said that Hughes would deserve some heat if he had a down season. Why does he deserve this? He's the same person that won a Norris trophy, and yet for some reason he should have his feet held to the fire and somehow that will improve matters?

Not sure if this is a trick question or what, but if/when a player doesn't play up to his standard, there should be some heat on him no matter who he is. There are expectation for each player, so if he is not meeting it he deserve some heat. It is doubly so if that player is a highly paid player. It is different if Aman struggles mightily making league min (for example), comparing to Hughes at $7.8m or $15m or whatever he is making later on. Again, this is pretty much the norm in all jobs/industries, I'm not sure why hockey is any different.

If Hughes has a down year and take some heat, that is a critique on the player, not the person. So whether he is a good person or not makes no difference.

Fans having expectation doesn't affect the player one way or another. Its not like if we have absolutely no expectation, that a player will suddenly plays better. Otherwise Eriksson would've been a star in his 2nd season here. You are vastly overstating how much affect fans on players performance.

 

[kanucks25]

Lots of good discussion. This is a complex issue and we likely will never know truly what is causing Pettersson's struggles. I am, at least, happy to see that people are looking beyond his patellar tendinitis which was used by many to almost solely excuse his poor play.

In terms of the whole idea that criticizing Pettersson is bad and that we need to support him (mostly @Ernie ), I am left almost speechless given the incredible reception Pettersson had by the fans during the playoffs. Never had I ever seen a player play so poorly but have his name chanted in Rogers Arena as the fan base was collectively trying to encourage him on. And this was a concerted ever. I think it was Halford and Brough that came up with the idea of getting behind Pettersson to hopefully spur on some better player.

So not only have fans not turned on him, at least publicly and openly, the exact opposite has been true.

But in terms of discussing or even criticizing Pettersson's play on this forum: who cares. This is a niche forum with what amounts to an incredibly small proportion of the Vancouver fan base. If the fanbase in general openly turns on Pettersson it won't be because of HF, it will be because he plays terribly for so long (and at least appears to stop trying). But even then, what will likely get to Pettersson more in that event, is the media. The media will ask him the "tough" questions, and they will be looking to create a story. And so I really don't think its going to be the general fanbase that gets to Pettersson, if anything actually does, its going to be the media. Its going to be Pettersson continually needing to answer questions about is poor play.

The general notion that the fanbase or market wants him to fail or is trying to drive him away or anything of the like is complete and utter nonsense.

Other than a few very rare exceptions, the people cheering for this team want Pettersson and the team to succeed. The health and success of this franchise is now tied to Pettersson and the other big-ticket players; wanting Pettersson to fail is equal to wanting the team to suck and not get anywhere close to the Cup for the next 8 seasons.

With great power salary comes great responsibility.

 

[timw33]

I had lots of understanding when he was completely disconnected under yet another hopeless Benning season in 21-22, one that immediately turned around once they finally exorcized themselves of the anchor around the neck of the franchise.

However, concern is absolutely warranted now that we have seen this occur for a 2nd extended stretch in 4 seasons, further compounded by the fact that he no longer makes 7.35MM (a 2nd line centre rate) and now makes 11.6MM (elite first line centre wage).

In a cap world we quite literally cannot afford to not get a full 11.6MM of value from Pettersson in what should be his prime years.

To go a bit further with this, just look at what having to pay all of your star players has done to the Avalanche's depth this year. Yes there are some major injuries, but things are just insanely tight for them now Mackinnon no longer makes 6.1MM and Toews no longer makes 4.1MM. And that's without having Rantanen extended past this season, and only three seasons left of Makar before UFA (essentially their absolute end to their window). Now, granted, these players won them the cup so literally who cares if you're an Avs fan, but Petey is now being paid like a player who should drag the team towards a cup, and if he can't do that it's just...not a good contract.

 

[Ernie]

Lots of good discussion. This is a complex issue and we likely will never know truly what is causing Pettersson's struggles. I am, at least, happy to see that people are looking beyond his patellar tendinitis which was used by many to almost solely excuse his poor play.

In terms of the whole idea that criticizing Pettersson is bad and that we need to support him (mostly @Ernie ), I am left almost speechless given the incredible reception Pettersson had by the fans during the playoffs. Never had I ever seen a player play so poorly but have his name chanted in Rogers Arena as the fan base was collectively trying to encourage him on. And this was a concerted ever. I think it was Halford and Brough that came up with the idea of getting behind Pettersson to hopefully spur on some better player.

So not only have fans not turned on him, at least publicly and openly, the exact opposite has been true.

But in terms of discussing or even criticizing Pettersson's play on this forum: who cares. This is a niche forum with what amounts to an incredibly small proportion of the Vancouver fan base. If the fanbase in general openly turns on Pettersson it won't be because of HF, it will be because he plays terribly for so long (and at least appears to stop trying). But even then, what will likely get to Pettersson more in that event, is the media. The media will ask him the "tough" questions, and they will be looking to create a story. And so I really don't think its going to be the general fanbase that gets to Pettersson, if anything actually does, its going to be the media. Its going to be Pettersson continually needing to answer questions about is poor play.

Some good points about the fan support in the past playoffs.

My posts were in response to some posters who were going way over the top and starting to attack him personally. You're right that this is a tiny corner of the internet but I like to think that we're better than the general fanbase about these kinds of things - that's what keeps me coming back when the discussion in other places becomes so toxic. The typical poster here has been through so many ups and downs that you'd think we'd be a bit more circumspect about the team and its players.

As for the media, the stories they push are typically what the fans want, though they do tend to go too far as well.

 

[arttk]

If someone plays at half speed than they used to, sulks, doesnt inspire others with their actions and wears a letter. Respectfully, maybe you should try another sport, like knitting

That’s not body language. You know the bit where you said, oh he doesn’t smile, he doesn’t hug his teammates, all that bullshit

 

[arttk]

Lots of good discussion. This is a complex issue and we likely will never know truly what is causing Pettersson's struggles. I am, at least, happy to see that people are looking beyond his patellar tendinitis which was used by many to almost solely excuse his poor play.

In terms of the whole idea that criticizing Pettersson is bad and that we need to support him (mostly @Ernie ), I am left almost speechless given the incredible reception Pettersson had by the fans during the playoffs. Never had I ever seen a player play so poorly but have his name chanted in Rogers Arena as the fan base was collectively trying to encourage him on. And this was a concerted ever. I think it was Halford and Brough that came up with the idea of getting behind Pettersson to hopefully spur on some better player.

So not only have fans not turned on him, at least publicly and openly, the exact opposite has been true.

But in terms of discussing or even criticizing Pettersson's play on this forum: who cares. This is a niche forum with what amounts to an incredibly small proportion of the Vancouver fan base. If the fanbase in general openly turns on Pettersson it won't be because of HF, it will be because he plays terribly for so long (and at least appears to stop trying). But even then, what will likely get to Pettersson more in that event, is the media. The media will ask him the "tough" questions, and they will be looking to create a story. And so I really don't think its going to be the general fanbase that gets to Pettersson, if anything actually does, its going to be the media. Its going to be Pettersson continually needing to answer questions about is poor play.

“Who cares” obviously you do considering how long your post is

 

[Hodgy]

“Who cares” obviously you do considering how long your post is

The "who cares" was in response to it being "bad" to criticize Pettersson's play on this forum - i.e., its a pretty dubious assertion that its going to have any affect on Pettersson one way or another.

 

[arttk]

Some good points about the fan support in the past playoffs.

My posts were in response to some posters who were going way over the top and starting to attack him personally. You're right that this is a tiny corner of the internet but I like to think that we're better than the general fanbase about these kinds of things - that's what keeps me coming back when the discussion in other places becomes so toxic. The typical poster here has been through so many ups and downs that you'd think we'd be a bit more circumspect about the team and its players.

As for the media, the stories they push are typically what the fans want, though they do tend to go too far as well.

I think it makes sense to say like god damnit he’s struggling, we are f***ed if he doesn’t get better, is this permanent or will he recover, he looks like he isn’t giving his best, he looks lost bla bla bla. Things with some factual backing.

I think what I object to, in my own f***ing opinion, stating things like he doesn’t care, he quit on the team, he’s checked out. That’s just making shit up about his character to paint a certain narrative and that’s f***ed up

 

[Kryten]

That’s not body language. You know the bit where you said, oh he doesn’t smile, he doesn’t hug his teammates, all that bullshit

It is, along with sulking, not pumping up the bench, looking disinterested. But whatever. Its feeling too much like the Benning years around here with us fans at each others throats. I am cheering on Petey this year,its a new season and a new slate. I want this thread to be filled with told you sos when Petey goes ham and does what we know he can do

 

[arttk]

It is, along with sulking, not pumping up the bench, looking disinterested. But whatever. Its feeling too much like the Benning years around here with us fans at each others throats. I am cheering on Petey this year,it’s a new season and a new slate. I want this thread to be filled with told you sos when Petey goes ham and does what we know he can do

everything you say is you projecting what you think he is feeling and actually not what he is actually feeling. Unless you know the guy really well you won’t know what the f*** he is thinking or feeling. I work with people for years and I still find it surprising what some of their “body language” actually means when you ask them. Why the f*** you think you got Petey figured out by watching him on the TV and only see his face zoomed in for like a couple minutes max per game?

The "who cares" was in response to it being "bad" to criticize Pettersson's play on this forum - i.e., its a pretty dubious assertion that its going to have any affect on Pettersson one way or another.

I don’t think it’s bad to criticize him. I just think it’s f***ed up to smear his or anyone’s character, unless it’s f***ing Benning.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

You need to turn it down 5 notches as well.

We are criticizing one of the top paid players in the league for his inconsistent play. It's not hating; it's not hyper-ventilating; it's not calling him names. It's genuine concern for a player of his pay and stature - he's not allowed to go missing for these stretches and it's completely reasonable to be frustrated and question where his head is at.

You've staked your claim that you're not worried but you'd be in the minority. To me it's a head in the sand type problem. I can't fathom not worrying about Pettersson when he plays like this.

Worried and being critical is fine.

Especially if you dont leave out crucial context because of your personal bias against the player.

But the mind reader bodylanguage doctor bullshit brings nothing to the conversation. Nothing at all.

"When he decides to try..."

"He looks smug in interviews.. obviously thinks he is better tham everyone else."

"Not making enough angry faces and gestures!"




Last season crtain well respected poster claimed again and again that EP40 was healthy. When it turned out he absolutley was not healthy, instead of admitting he was wrong the poster decided to invent out of thin air the severity (lack there of) of the injury. While showing obviously zero understanding of the type of injury in question...

 

[Kryten]

everything you say is you projecting what you think he is feeling and actually not what he is actually feeling. Unless you know the guy really well you won’t know what the f*** he is thinking or feeling. I work with people for years and I still find it surprising what some of their “body language” actually means when you ask them. Why the f*** you think you got Petey figured out by watching him on the TV and only see his face zoomed in for like a couple minutes max per game?


I don’t think it’s bad to criticize him. I just think it’s f***ed up to smear his or anyone’s character, unless it’s f***ing Benning.

Everything Im saying is what it looks like. How Petey carries himself on the ice and bench is how he is projecting himself. His contract comments and now his play post contract is not a good look to fans and Id bet teammates as well. Thinking he is some stoic cant do no wrong is projecting from your side, friend

 

[Vector]

Are we done with the name calling, ad hominems, straw men, and purposeful misreading? Yes? Good.

Yo, if anyone thought I was joking about this, you'll find out very shortly that I wasn't. Keep it civil.

 

[MS]

Nobody is saying that they 'know him'. I have no freaking idea who he is - he's the most mystifying athlete I've ever come across.

Body language matters. How you carry yourself matters.

As part of the leadership group of an NHL team, JT Miller should be expected to carry himself professionally and not be prone to spaz outbursts. When he didn't do that, he was rightly criticized.

As the GM of an NHL team, Jim Benning should have been expected to carry out interviews in a lucid and confident manner and communicate ideas and plans effectively. When he didn't do that (which was always) he was rightly criticized.

As a guy wearing an A and the highest-paid player on an NHL team, Elias Pettersson should be expected to carry himself in a way that projects confidence and leadership. And when he's not doing that, it's fair game to criticize him for it.

Edit : quoted mod-deleted post, removed the quote.

 

[Hodgy]

I don’t think it’s bad to criticize him. I just think it’s f***ed up to smear his or anyone’s character, unless it’s f***ing Benning.

I really don't see this "smearing" of character, honestly. MS has been the most vocally critical, and generally speaking, I don't think he's been overly unfair or extreme. I don't necessarily agree with everything MS has stated, but its not like MS' points are unfounded or anything.

 

[F A N]

I work with people for years and I still find it surprising what some of their “body language” actually means when you ask them. Why the f*** you think you got Petey figured out by watching him on the TV and only see his face zoomed in for like a couple minutes max per game?

I'm no expert but I'm not sure what you mean here. The whole point of reading and interpreting one's body language is that it can be a form of communication and sometimes it's done unconsciously. It also depends on how you ask the question. If a player has his head down shoulders slumped, passes when he should have shot the puck etc and you ask him "Is your confidence completely shot?" The answer will likely be no. If you ask him "Are you lacking a bit of confident right now" he might say he's just squeezing the stick a bit.

I don’t think it’s bad to criticize him. I just think it’s f***ed up to smear his or anyone’s character, unless it’s f***ing Benning.

I don't think anyone should be smearing anyone's character here.

 

[MS]

To be clear, I absolutely question Pettersson's character.

And I think that's totally fair given that for like 80% of the last 4 years he's either under-performed by a shocking margin or been openly courting drama over his contract future here and questioning whether this team was good enough for him. If you don't want people to question your character, don't do shit like your Boat Cruise With Elliotte where you're basically trying to lay the groundwork for a trade out of town.

I hope he can either prove me wrong or if I'm right, do better.

 

[AlainVigneaultsGum]

MAN I LOVE THIS PLAYER

 

[Ernie]

To be clear, I absolutely question Pettersson's character.

And I think that's totally fair given that for like 80% of the last 4 years he's either under-performed by a shocking margin or been openly courting drama over his contract future here and questioning whether this team was good enough for him. If you don't want people to question your character, don't do shit like your Boat Cruise With Elliotte where you're basically trying to lay the groundwork for a trade out of town.

I hope he can either prove me wrong or if I'm right, do better.

Well if he continues to underperform perhaps you can go back to cheering for the Kraken.