Player Discussion: Ehlers

[WolfHouse]

Would rather see a more balance power play approach - one where PP2 starts the power play at least once in a while

Bump Apples to PP1 for grit in front of the net

Copp-Stats-Ehlers
Pionk-PLD

 

[DRW204]

What's the gf/60 of our pp units? (on mobile rn)

 

[GNP]

Roslovic still has a longggg way to go before being called the one that got away. His faceoffs are like low 30% and his defensive play is terrible. He's put up points based primarily on Columbus not having much choice in giving him 1C and PP1 time. Just last week Torts came out and his exact words were "as an organization, we need to find out what jack roslovic is". That sounds pretty far from a guy that got away.

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You make a lot of good points on Roslovic, as he is somewhat of a dilemma for whoever has him. His skating can be impressive, and same with his shot, and then he disappears for awhile. Personally I think he lacks the smarts, and I question his passion and intensity for the game.

In summary, I don't think he'll become a consistent star in the NHL, and Im sure Jet's management felt the same. Good post there Dee.

 

[GNP]

On the power subject -- I think power play # 2 should get at least the same minutes as PP1 -- or move Ehlers to play the point on PP # 1.

 

[GNP]

As an old timer who's been watching the Jets since Day One in the WHA (1972), I can say with much certainty that Ehlers is one of the most exciting Jets to watch that I've ever seen. Ever. I'm talking Anders Hedberg-level exciting, and for those who are old enough, they'll understand just what a huge compliment that is.

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Really good post here Jaytee, and I agree Hedberg was fantastic, for the little time I got to watch him play. ( working too much) I will say this tho -- I think Ehlers is one of the most dynamic, electrifying player, I've ever seen in the Jet's organization. He can really move the needle, and take fans out of their seats. Love watching the guy play.

 

[Jet]

And yet there are some on this board who feel it’s not even close that 55 is the better player. Pretty good company Nik has at the top there.

Mark Scheifele is the superior player. I think Nik has been fantastic this year and taken a real step forward. However, 55 is a centre, and he produces ridiculously consistently despite the toughest matchups. He plays against the elite forwards from the other team, and always gets their top D pair.

I once thought it would be ok to trade Ehlers but thank god that never happened. He is truly a special player that leverages his speed and agility, vision and that laser of a shot. However, Mark Scheifele is still the guy I'm taking if I have to pick one or the other. That should be the true measure of a players value.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

Mark Scheifele is the superior player. I think Nik has been fantastic this year and taken a real step forward. However, 55 is a centre, and he produces ridiculously consistently despite the toughest matchups. He plays against the elite forwards from the other team, and always gets their top D pair.

I once thought it would be ok to trade Ehlers but thank god that never happened. He is truly a special player that leverages his speed and agility, vision and that laser of a shot. However, Mark Scheifele is still the guy I'm taking if I have to pick one or the other. That should be the true measure of a players value.

Ignoring position, I take Ehlers.

In reality you can't do that and a 1C is just too important so Scheifele is the pick.

 

[Jet]

Ignoring position, I take Ehlers.

In reality you can't do that and a 1C is just too important so Scheifele is the pick.

It really is Sophie's choice (I actually have no idea what that is but it seems appropriate here haha)

 

[Jet]

Ignoring position, I take Ehlers.

In reality you can't do that and a 1C is just too important so Scheifele is the pick.

The only rebut I'd give you is think about this scenario: Scheifele is not on the team, and now Nik Ehlers is circled on the oppositions lineup card every night as the guy that they need to neutralize. What do you think would happen?

That's the next step that Nik would have to take to usurp Scheifele, and not every player can do that. Not saying Ehlers couldn't, but just because he might not be able to doesn't make him less of a player. I only think a handful in this league can still be elite with that type of attention on them.

 

[DRW204]

Ignoring position, I take Ehlers.

In reality you can't do that and a 1C is just too important so Scheifele is the pick.

yup it's basically the fact he's a C that might put him above. but the only thing scheifele does better than ehlers really is scoring in empty nets.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

The only rebut I'd give you is think about this scenario: Scheifele is not on the team, and now Nik Ehlers is circled on the oppositions lineup card every night as the guy that they need to neutralize. What do you think would happen?

That's the next step that Nik would have to take to usurp Scheifele, and not every player can do that. Not saying Ehlers couldn't, but just because he might not be able to doesn't make him less of a player. I only think a handful in this league can still be elite with that type of attention on them.

I get what you are saying. My rebut would be you can't know unless you try.

It is my opinion that he could still produce on the top line, on the top powerplay, getting top minutes in all situations against the best players in the league. From what I believe, quality of teammates, and opportunity supersede quality of competition. It is possible that the extra attention could limit him, but my opinion is that he would still thrive.

 

[Howard Chuck]

I also love how Maurice has people thinking Ehlers has done well because of managing his minutes:


This fails the simplest logic test:
1) Ehlers has scored more on the top line than he has on the 2nd line (relative to ice time)
2) His linemates on the top line also score more with him on there

Lol @ Wheeler being a Marathoner. That argument falls flat on its face.

 

[Jet]

yup it's basically the fact he's a C that might put him above. but the only thing scheifele does better than ehlers really is scoring in empty nets.

That is a flaming hot take.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

This has been debunked and explained many times...

On another note... anyone show me a better Player in the League not playing 5 vs 3 or NOT out Late in game with empty netter..
Playing PP2
Playing 14-18 Min.
Anyone? Anyone in the NHL?

What do you mean by debunked? Are you suggesting it didn't happen? It did.

 

[scelaton]

It really is Sophie's choice (I actually have no idea what that is but it seems appropriate here haha)

It's an incredible book, made into a movie, which is also good--think you'd like it.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Yep. The trading Ehlers talk was just crazy. Sometimes you just have to give these young guys enough time for them to explode into their man game.
Giving up too early on these highly talented players is a huge mistake. That’s how this franchise ended up getting players like Wheeler and Pionk, and lost players like Armia and Roslovic.
On that note, Roslovic is leading the Blue Jackets in points per game played with 18 in 22.
I still say that Roslovic one day will be THE one that got away.

When that trade was made, who would have thought that Rosie would be the highest scoring player of the 3? In both total points and in ppg?

 

[Slimy Sculpin]

It really is Sophie's choice (I actually have no idea what that is but it seems appropriate here haha)

Sophie's Choice is a 1970s novel made into an early 1980s movie (Meryl Streep won a Best Actress Oscar for her performance) where she and her two children are sent to Auschwitz where she is forced to choose between one of her kids living (sent to a work camp) and one dying (sent to a gas chamber).

We're not quite there with Scheifele and Ehlers but I get your point.

 

[Jet]

Sophie's Choice is a 1970s novel made into an early 1980s movie (Meryl Streep won a Best Actress Oscar for her performance) where she and her two children are sent to Auschwitz where she is forced to choose between one of her kids living (sent to a work camp) and one dying (sent to a gas chamber).

We're not quite there with Scheifele and Ehlers but I get your point.

OH DAMN! So, I didn't use that reference properly. I really don't want to send either of them to the gas chamber :O

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

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Yes Turtle, you could be right about Roslovic, and probably the Jets were a little undecided on where his ceiling was, and still are to some extent. Because they so desperately wanted to get rid of Laine ( expensive headache) they threw Roslovic into the deal, to make sure they could acquire Dubois, because a lot of teams were interested.

I would have done the same thing as Chevy, because Laine was a distraction, and would want way too much money, so really Columbus got Roslovic for just about no cost.

He could be a late bloomer as you say, and become a great NHL'r, so I guess time will tell on Roslovic. Also he didn't want to be here, and our top 6 was stacked with talent, and he'd get very little playing time. I do not regret this deal being made at all.

I think Savard should have been the add, or the pick should have been higher, but otherwise agree. Don't regret the deal.

I am a little disappointed in PLD so far, but I am still confident he will be an impact player very soon.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Take a look at the make up of both PP's - I tried to help with that in my post.
You want all shooters on one pp and the best passer on another - that is what you posted.

Ehlers is doing fine - better than fine actually and we finally have 2 pp's that produce.

Something being ignored so far in this discussion is zone entries. Our PP1 is absolutely pathetic at it. The PK just needs to clear the puck 1 time and our PP is over, at least until PP2 comes out. So either find an appropriate spot for Ehlers on PP1 or change the set plays for gaining the zone with PP1. Better yet do both. But with or without putting Ehlers on PP1, change the zone entries drastically.

 

[DRW204]

Anyone surprised?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I know you do -
Maybe you'll get your wish at some point - personally, I like it how it is - we have a balanced tandem of PP units that both can score.
We likely won't if we do what you suggest.

Don't get hung up on the language - fine means a PPG player. Of course teams should always try to improve - where did I say otherwise? In fact, I was trying to point out that the current structure is optimal IMO, especially from a "team" perspective".
Wheeler is our best passer - he's proven that. Laine doesn't play on this team anymore although this dialogue reminds me a lot of when he was here. Copp is not a comparable passer - there is nothing in his work that would suggest that.

If we need to get Ehlers on PP1, flip him with KC if anyone - that makes more sense IMO,
And I'm sure KC won't mind a bit -

If we are going to stick with 2 PP units that can score then balance their minutes more equally. Otherwise, make PP1 as strong as possible and give them the lions share of the TOI. I prefer the latter. The whole concept of a PP is power. Make PP1 as strong as possible. That means finding a spot for Ehlers there.

That said, I like the way our PP1 has looked this year, with Wheeler and KC having switched places. That is, once set up. Zone entries continue to be a huge problem. Once the puck is cleared from the O zone, it becomes the Power Failure Play. So frustrating.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

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You make a lot of good points on Roslovic, as he is somewhat of a dilemma for whoever has him. His skating can be impressive, and same with his shot, and then he disappears for awhile. Personally I think he lacks the smarts, and I question his passion and intensity for the game.

In summary, I don't think he'll become a consistent star in the NHL, and Im sure Jet's management felt the same. Good post there Dee.

He certainly has his warts. He still might become an adequate 2C but I think he is probably better at RW. Either 2nd or 3rd line, and he might be a pretty good one. Not a star level one though. The problem with the Jets was not that he was on a 3rd line. It was that the 3rd line was made up of checkers in a shut down role. Apples is much better there.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Ignoring position, I take Ehlers.

In reality you can't do that and a 1C is just too important so Scheifele is the pick.

Except if you have other C options. Then you can ignore position and go for pure talent. That is Ehlers.
Realistically though, you aren't likely to be able to ignore position.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

It really is Sophie's choice (I actually have no idea what that is but it seems appropriate here haha)

Originally 'Sophie's choice' is a morally impossible choice. I think it has evolved to any impossible choice.