Player Discussion: Ehlers

[garret9]

I would say he has unequivocally reached that top tier elite status.

I also love how Maurice has people thinking Ehlers has done well because of managing his minutes:


This fails the simplest logic test:
1) Ehlers has scored more on the top line than he has on the 2nd line (relative to ice time)
2) His linemates on the top line also score more with him on there

 

[Nickel eye Heel hers]

You’re right....the Jets should have completely changed their 1PP to accommodate Ehlers because he was having a good run of games....that is the obvious thing that should have happened.

A logical response would have been to shorten PP 1 unit and give more seconds to PP 2 unit that was also having success instead of offering poison candy to Ehlers and saying it was a reward. But your right, we should hold back young skilled players for veterans just because their veterans.

 

[FonRiesen]

You’re right....the Jets should have completely changed their 1PP to accommodate Ehlers because he was having a good run of games....that is the obvious thing that should have happened.

I'm saying Mau was bullshitting the media, more than anything else. At the same time, between then and now there have been PLENTY of times where PP1 has absolutely sucked and needed shaking up. He pretends there's no way he could insert Ehlers anywhere other than net front. Putting the blame on Ehlers was a disingenuous deflection.

 

[Mud Turtle]

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We'd be screwed if we would have traded Ehlers --totally, and I thought the same thing myself. Can people not see that Ehlers has the "whole game", as he's one of the fastest skaters in the NHL, and also has a hard accurate shot. In my mind he's the 2nd best player on the Jets, behind Schiefele, and this excludes Hellebuyck, of course.

Yep. The trading Ehlers talk was just crazy. Sometimes you just have to give these young guys enough time for them to explode into their man game.
Giving up too early on these highly talented players is a huge mistake. That’s how this franchise ended up getting players like Wheeler and Pionk, and lost players like Armia and Roslovic.
On that note, Roslovic is leading the Blue Jackets in points per game played with 18 in 22.
I still say that Roslovic one day will be THE one that got away.

 

[Duke749]

I also love how Maurice has people thinking Ehlers has done well because of managing his minutes:


This fails the simplest logic test:
1) Ehlers has scored more on the top line than he has on the 2nd line (relative to ice time)
2) His linemates on the top line also score more with him on there

Ehlers and Scheif on the same line would be our absolute deadliest option bar none. Now I can get behind separating them as I think they are the two best forwards on our team.

 

[garret9]

Ehlers and Scheif on the same line would be our absolute deadliest option bar none. Now I can get behind separating them as I think they are the two best forwards on our team.

Ya. I mean analytics wise I am also against blindly loading the top up.

1) It looks like it's just in general best to spread out talent more so than load up (unless chasing leads).

2) Chemistry also impacts overall team results too, not just overall ability.

 

[Krauser]

Ehlers and Scheif on the same line would be our absolute deadliest option bar none. Now I can get behind separating them as I think they are the two best forwards on our team.

Jets could do the Matthews-Marner-Hyman thing (add a 2-way winger who's a good forechecker to 2 elite offensive forwards on the top line) and move Copp up to 1LW to play with Scheifele-Ehlers.

That could allow them to put Stastny back at C, give Perrault more minutes and get Thompson out of the lineup:

Copp-Scheifele-Ehlers
Connor-Stastny-Wheeler
Perrault-Dubois-Appleton
Harkins-Lowry-Lewis

Not sure which order to list Stastny and Dubois but I imagine it would be easier for PLD to find his game playing with a couple of wingers who are hard on the puck, and easier for Stastny to babysit Connor and Wheeler in their own zone.

 

[Duke749]

Ya. I mean analytics wise I am also against blindly loading the top up.

1) It looks like it's just in general best to spread out talent more so than load up (unless chasing leads).

2) Chemistry also impacts overall team results too, not just overall ability.

For sure. Over the span of a game, a series, a season, spread the talent out. Only when you need an immediate goal should you load up.

 

[GNP]

Yep. The trading Ehlers talk was just crazy. Sometimes you just have to give these young guys enough time for them to explode into their man game.
Giving up too early on these highly talented players is a huge mistake. That’s how this franchise ended up getting players like Wheeler and Pionk, and lost players like Armia and Roslovic.
On that note, Roslovic is leading the Blue Jackets in points per game played with 18 in 22.
I still say that Roslovic one day will be THE one that got away.

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Yes Turtle, you could be right about Roslovic, and probably the Jets were a little undecided on where his ceiling was, and still are to some extent. Because they so desperately wanted to get rid of Laine ( expensive headache) they threw Roslovic into the deal, to make sure they could acquire Dubois, because a lot of teams were interested.

I would have done the same thing as Chevy, because Laine was a distraction, and would want way too much money, so really Columbus got Roslovic for just about no cost.

He could be a late bloomer as you say, and become a great NHL'r, so I guess time will tell on Roslovic. Also he didn't want to be here, and our top 6 was stacked with talent, and he'd get very little playing time. I do not regret this deal being made at all.

 

[Imcanadianeh]

A logical response would have been to shorten PP 1 unit and give more seconds to PP 2 unit that was also having success instead of offering poison candy to Ehlers and saying it was a reward. But your right, we should hold back young skilled players for veterans just because their veterans.

You’re right, PP1 last year was just filled with unskilled aging vets that are only there because of their old age.

josh morrissey-24
Neal Pionk-24
Patrik Laine-21
Kyle Connor-23
Mark Scheifele-26
Blake wheeler-33

that lineup just screams old and crappy!

Ehlers has played more NHL games than 4 out of the 6 players that were mainstays on PP1 last year. He would have been one of the veterans holding back one of the young skilled players.

 

[Jaytee]

As an old timer who's been watching the Jets since Day One in the WHA (1972), I can say with much certainty that Ehlers is one of the most exciting Jets to watch that I've ever seen. Ever. I'm talking Anders Hedberg-level exciting, and for those who are old enough, they'll understand just what a huge compliment that is.

 

[Nickel eye Heel hers]

You’re right, PP1 last year was just filled with unskilled aging vets that are only there because of their old age.

josh morrissey-24
Neal Pionk-24
Patrik Laine-21
Kyle Connor-23
Mark Scheifele-26
Blake wheeler-33

that lineup just screams old and crappy!

Ehlers has played more NHL games than 4 out of the 6 players that were mainstays on PP1 last year. He would have been one of the veterans holding back one of the young skilled players.

Power play goals per 60 last season, Ehlers at 1.906 per 60 was ahead of Morrissey, Pionk and Wheeler.

This season G/per 60 at PP he's ahead of everyone on your list, but good job buddy. He also leads in Powerplay points per 60 this season. But yah lets hold him back. Brilliant idea.

 

[Imcanadianeh]

Power play goals per 60 last season, Ehlers at 1.906 per 60 was ahead of Morrissey, Pionk and Wheeler.

This season G/per 60 at PP he's ahead of everyone on your list, but good job buddy. He also leads in Powerplay points per 60 this season. But yah lets hold him back. Brilliant idea.

Using the data from the 17-18 season until now

every player mentioned has a higher PPP/60 than Ehlers except Kyle Connor.

every players has a higher PPA1/60 higher than Ehlers except KC

but let’s just compare forwards now because you’ll almost never run a PP without 1 defenseman.

Patrik Laine has the highest PPG/60 Ehlers come in second but that is a close second his PPG/60
.04 higher than Scheifele and .05 higher than KC

Over the 3+ season if Ehlers was given equal time as KC or Scheifele that difference wouldn’t even equal one extra goal.

I could see the argument being made for him to be on PP1 over KC based solely on stats. But if that was the case using your Logic Ehlers would just be a vet blocking a younger Kyle Connor from reaching his potential.

 

[Nickel eye Heel hers]

I could see the argument being made for him to be on PP1 over KC based solely on stats. But if that was the case using your Logic Ehlers would just be a vet blocking a younger Kyle Connor from reaching his potential.

I'd keep KFC on PP1 put Ehlers on PP1 and remove.......the veteran Wheeler and put him on PP2. 2017 Wheeler was 30. he's now 34. Wheeler is the vet I would move to make room. This isn't a Ehlers or KFC choice necessarily comparing veterans.

 

[AstrophysicalJet]

You’re right, PP1 last year was just filled with unskilled aging vets that are only there because of their old age.

josh morrissey-24
Neal Pionk-24
Patrik Laine-21
Kyle Connor-23
Mark Scheifele-26
Blake wheeler-33

that lineup just screams old and crappy!

Ehlers has played more NHL games than 4 out of the 6 players that were mainstays on PP1 last year. He would have been one of the veterans holding back one of the young skilled players.

The problem wasn’t age, but how ineffective pp1 was for a looong time with no changes.

Also, ofc players who play more pp than Ehlers will have more ppp.

 

[Imcanadianeh]

I'd keep KFC on PP1 put Ehlers on PP1 and remove.......the veteran Wheeler and put him on PP2. 2017 Wheeler was 30. he's now 34. Wheeler is the vet I would move to make room. This isn't a Ehlers or KFC choice necessarily comparing veterans.

Wheeler has the most PPP, the most PPA1, the most PPA2, the highest PPP/60, the highest PPA1/60 and the highest PPA2/60 of all forwards on the Jets since the 17-18 season.

you would want to take the best point producer and best play maker off PP1 and replace him with a goal scorer just because Wheeler is old.

please explain to me how that makes any sense, also explain how the Jets wouldn’t have to reconfigure their entire PP1 if they took off their Right handed player maker and replaced him with a left handed goal scorer.

 

[AstrophysicalJet]

Who cares about Ehlers....Nylander AINEC.

 

[Nickel eye Heel hers]

please explain to me how that makes any sense, also explain how the Jets wouldn’t have to reconfigure their entire PP1 if they took off their Right handed player maker and replaced him with a left handed goal scorer.

It makes sense because it's no longer 2017, its no longer 2018, it's no longer 2019,....and Wheeler is 34 and his lack of defense is now noticeable, his minutes need to be trimmed until he remembers how to cover an opposing player properly in our own end. Why not on PP unit.

Scheifele is right handed he could move over to Wheelers spot. Our PP setup isn't that complex. We aren't reinventing the wheel.

 

[LowLefty]

I'd keep KFC on PP1 put Ehlers on PP1 and remove.......the veteran Wheeler and put him on PP2. 2017 Wheeler was 30. he's now 34. Wheeler is the vet I would move to make room. This isn't a Ehlers or KFC choice necessarily comparing veterans.

We need to spread the shooters around a bit - putting Ehlers / Scheif/ KC on PP1 (after removing the guy that is probably our best passer), might not make much sense.
Ehlers is not being held back - he's driving the second line at the moment - and it's always nice to have 2 scoring lines like we do today.
It's also nice to have two PP's that are scoring.

Sometimes it makes sense to keep the team in perspective and not just the player.

 

[Imcanadianeh]

It makes sense because it's no longer 2017, its no longer 2018, it's no longer 2019,....and Wheeler is 34 and his lack of defense is now noticeable, his minutes need to be trimmed until he remembers how to cover an opposing player properly in our own end. Why not on PP unit.

Scheifele is right handed he could move over to Wheelers spot. Our PP setup isn't that complex. We aren't reinventing the wheel.

Age, 5v5 play and cardio (not much energy is used on the PP) are all pretty much non factors for the PP, also Wheeler at 34 is still the best play maker/passer the Jets have for PP.

 

[Nickel eye Heel hers]

We need to spread the shooters around a bit - putting Ehlers / Scheif/ KC on PP1 (after removing the guy that is probably our best passer), might not make much sense.
Ehlers is not being held back - he's driving the second line at the moment - and it's always nice to have 2 scoring lines like we do today.
It's also nice to have two PP's that are scoring.

Sometimes it makes sense to keep the team in perspective and not just the player.

I'm a Jets fan first and an Ehlers fan 2nd. I simply believe in giving more minutes to better players. Ehlers simply over the last 2 + seasons is producing at a rate that makes him one of the best players on the team. I don't care if it's on the PP or 5v5. Players that not only score more per 60 and aren't defensive liabilities while they do so is good for the team. If he improves every line he is on, then the kid should be getting more minutes, and THAT is good for the team.

 

[LowLefty]

I'm a Jets fan first and an Ehlers fan 2nd. I simply believe in giving more minutes to better players. Ehlers simply over the last 2 + seasons is producing at a rate that makes him one of the best players on the team. I don't care if it's on the PP or 5v5. Players that not only score more per 60 and aren't defensive liabilities while they do so is good for the team. If he improves every line he is on, then the kid should be getting more minutes, and THAT is good for the team.

Take a look at the make up of both PP's - I tried to help with that in my post.
You want all shooters on one pp and the best passer on another - that is what you posted.

Ehlers is doing fine - better than fine actually and we finally have 2 pp's that produce.

 

[Nickel eye Heel hers]

Take a look at the make up of both PP's - I tried to help with that in my post.
You want all shooters on one pp and the best passer on another - that is what you posted.

Ehlers is doing fine - better than fine actually and we finally have 2 pp's that produce.

What I want is more minutes for the Jets best winger.

I'd argue that behind/beside the net we have more than a few players that could pass as well as Wheeler. Copp or Stastny could take that pp position and the passing quality would remain the same on PP. Wheeler has a lot of space to play with in that position on PP. Wheelers passing isn't special. Laine had better passes than him.

Professional athletes should be pushed to their limit, not until their doing fine. Teams should always try to improve, not just that was close and we got out played but we won so no changes here attitude. That's lazy.

 

[jokesondee]

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Yes Turtle, you could be right about Roslovic, and probably the Jets were a little undecided on where his ceiling was, and still are to some extent. Because they so desperately wanted to get rid of Laine ( expensive headache) they threw Roslovic into the deal, to make sure they could acquire Dubois, because a lot of teams were interested.

I would have done the same thing as Chevy, because Laine was a distraction, and would want way too much money, so really Columbus got Roslovic for just about no cost.

He could be a late bloomer as you say, and become a great NHL'r, so I guess time will tell on Roslovic. Also he didn't want to be here, and our top 6 was stacked with talent, and he'd get very little playing time. I do not regret this deal being made at all.

Roslovic still has a longggg way to go before being called the one that got away. His faceoffs are like low 30% and his defensive play is terrible. He's put up points based primarily on Columbus not having much choice in giving him 1C and PP1 time. Just last week Torts came out and his exact words were "as an organization, we need to find out what jack roslovic is". That sounds pretty far from a guy that got away.

 

[LowLefty]

What I want is more minutes for the Jets best winger.

I'd argue that behind/beside the net we have more than a few players that could pass as well as Wheeler. Copp or Stastny could take that pp position and the passing quality would remain the same on PP. Wheeler has a lot of space to play with in that position on PP. Wheelers passing isn't special. Laine had better passes than him.

Professional athletes should be pushed to their limit, not until their doing fine. Teams should always try to improve, not just that was close and we got out played but we won so no changes here attitude. That's lazy.

I know you do -
Maybe you'll get your wish at some point - personally, I like it how it is - we have a balanced tandem of PP units that both can score.
We likely won't if we do what you suggest.

Don't get hung up on the language - fine means a PPG player. Of course teams should always try to improve - where did I say otherwise? In fact, I was trying to point out that the current structure is optimal IMO, especially from a "team" perspective".
Wheeler is our best passer - he's proven that. Laine doesn't play on this team anymore although this dialogue reminds me a lot of when he was here. Copp is not a comparable passer - there is nothing in his work that would suggest that.

If we need to get Ehlers on PP1, flip him with KC if anyone - that makes more sense IMO,
And I'm sure KC won't mind a bit -