Proposal: Ehlers/Dubious to Calgary

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Ledge And Dairy

Registered User
I wouldn’t mind Norris, Demelo, a top 5 draft pick for schief. If we get the Karlsson deal that’s a lot more than the jets are being offered.
That pick was never expected to be top 5 when the trade was made. San Jose went to the semi finals the year prior. Don't base that trade on where that pick fell due to the Sharks complete meltdown the following season. The Karlson deal here from Calgary would look like:
- 1st (conditions?)
- 1 of Pelletier/Zary/Coronato (Norris equivalent)
- Dube (Tierney equivalent)
- Valimaki (DeMelo equivalent)
- Ryan Francis (Balcers equivalent)
- cond. 2023 2nd (based on Calgary's playoff success, only transfers if they make the semi's or something)
- higher of Calgary's two 2022 2nds

However, this likely still runs into a cap issues so remove Dube and Valimaki then replace them with Monahan
 

Adam da bomb

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May 1, 2016
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That pick was never expected to be top 5 when the trade was made. San Jose went to the semi finals the year prior. Don't base that trade on where that pick fell due to the Sharks complete meltdown the following season. The Karlson deal here from Calgary would look like:
- 1st (conditions?)
- 1 of Pelletier/Zary/Coronato (Norris equivalent)
- Dube (Tierney equivalent)
- Valimaki (DeMelo equivalent)
- Ryan Francis (Balcers equivalent)
- cond. 2023 2nd (based on Calgary's playoff success, only transfers if they make the semi's or something)
- higher of Calgary's two 2022 2nds

However, this likely still runs into a cap issues so remove Dube and Valimaki then replace them with Monahan
Who trades an unprotected 1st with no conditions. I’d definitely take valimaki dube, Zary etc and an unprotected 1st.
 

blankall

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Jul 4, 2007
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You can never have too many centers and Perfetti may and up on the wing. As for Zary, I don't see the 1C potential so I think Winnipeg passes.
Do teams trade prospects that look like guaranteed #1 centers for 29 year old players? No chance.
 

pictman

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Mar 7, 2012
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There appears to be a problem in the Jets roster/ dressing room. The problem with this trade proposal is it doesn't address that. In fact it targets players who have been/ are part of the solution. The team needs a bit of restructuring to be centered around Dubois, Connor, Ehlers, Perfetti, Morrissey. That group is out of any trade talks.
 

Ledge And Dairy

Registered User
Who trades an unprotected 1st with no conditions. I’d definitely take valimaki dube, Zary etc and an unprotected 1st.
I swapped Valimaki and Dube out with Monahan for cap reasons. Also after learning more about the EK trade, DeMelo had actually cleared waivers that years so Zadorov (extended) instead of Valimaki is probably more accurate
 

Heldig

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Apr 12, 2002
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Do teams trade prospects that look like guaranteed #1 centers for 29 year old players? No chance.
Guaranteed #1 Center? Guaranteed? C'mon man.

I get sayin NO if you feel the Flames are not a ppg 1C away from being legit contenders. If that is not what you need and adding Scheifele is not going to push them over the top, sure dont trade futures for a chance to be really good right now.
 

blankall

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Jul 4, 2007
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Guaranteed #1 Center? Guaranteed? C'mon man.

I get sayin NO if you feel the Flames are not a ppg 1C away from being legit contenders. If that is not what you need and adding Scheifele is not going to push them over the top, sure dont trade futures for a chance to be really good right now.
The offers in this thread for Scheifele have been solid. At his age he's bringing back the bag of prospects. He's not bringing back the top end prospects. Guys like Zary are on the table. Guys like Pelletier are not.
 

gojetsgo

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Nov 1, 2015
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The offers in this thread for Scheifele have been solid. At his age he's bringing back the bag of prospects. He's not bringing back the top end prospects. Guys like Zary are on the table. Guys like Pelletier are not.
ppg #1center making 6 million in a flat cap world for 3 playoff runs.... yea I'm sure teams wouldn't want to pay for that....
 

blankall

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Jul 4, 2007
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ppg #1center making 6 million in a flat cap world for 3 playoff runs.... yea I'm sure teams wouldn't want to pay for that....
The equivalent of three first-ish assets is very solid payment for that. Offers based around Valimaki, Zary, 1st are great offers.
 

Snowman

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Oct 12, 2007
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Do teams trade prospects that look like guaranteed #1 centers for 29 year old players? No chance.
I know you're trying to twist what I said to try and make a point, but I never said a prospects that look like a guaranteed 1C. I said a player with 1C potential.
 

Adam da bomb

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May 1, 2016
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I swapped Valimaki and Dube out with Monahan for cap reasons. Also after learning more about the EK trade, DeMelo had actually cleared waivers that years so Zadorov (extended) instead of Valimaki is probably more accurate
Yes but the jets prefer valimaki and Dube over Monahan. So trade Monahan somewhere else. Ottawa didn’t accept a different deal just because SJ wanted to make cap work.
 

Snowman

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The equivalent of three first-ish assets is very solid payment for that. Offers based around Valimaki, Zary, 1st are great offers.
The point you are of course missing is that those guys can be great prospects to you, but they aren't anything Winnipeg needs or wants, so they don't hold much value to the Jets when they are trading an established 1C on a great contract.
 

BatVader

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May 16, 2015
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The equivalent of three first-ish assets is very solid payment for that. Offers based around Valimaki, Zary, 1st are great offers.
Valimaki; Left handed LD… Jets have lots of and no need for
Zary: Left handed C prospect… Jets have lots of and no need for
1st: possibly in the 20’s… so not great

Where’s the value for Winnipeg in trading a 1a/b C like Scheifele?
 

Adam da bomb

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Has Valimiki really set world on fire. We paid a 1st for Stanley but aren’t getting one back.
 

blankall

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If you think those are great offers, there isn't much discussion to be had between the Jets and the Flames.
Your expectations are unreal. No one is trading away a projected #1 center for a center that is 29.
 

Jimmyjets

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Oct 22, 2014
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Your expectations are unreal. No one is trading away a projected #1 center for a center that is 29.

I think what you're not getting is that we have no need to trade Scheifele and would be better off not doing that at this time unless it is the exact deal that we want.

His caphit is incredibly friendly. He plays a premium position and he is a right handed shot, which also demands a premium. He's also 6'3 so he doesn't get pushed around and can toss a bodycheck when he wants to.

The packages that are being tossed around here would be similar to what we could get next year or the year after so there's no rush to do anything right now.

We currently don't have any Cs that are cemented past the end of next season other than Scheif. PLD hasn't signed long term (yet) and Perfetti/Lucius haven't played a single game at C in the NHL so we can't realistically bank on either of them being top 6 Cs at this point either. David Gustaffson may have top 6 upside but he keeps getting injured when we call him up and he's only played in a checking role in the NHL so far. While we do have some potential replacements, trading Scheif would mean the team is taking a big step back, not just writing this year off due to the COVID distractions and seeing what we can accomplish with a new coach next year.

In a trade we'd likely need to take some cap back in the form of a roster player and then we'd want that blue chipper plus a 1st. Unless we could find a 1 for 1 type trade (Jones for Johanson) sort of thing.

Valamaki is the exact last thing we need. We don't need another Left handed D prospect to add to JMo, Dillon, Stanley, Samberg, Heinola and Chisholm. I get that he is who you want to give, but that is not who we want to get.

Zary was drafted late in the first round and his 9 points through 25 AHL games this season doesn't scream Top 6 C. Again, he isn't proven at the NHL level so he would just be in competition with Perfetti, PLD and Lucious to maybe have a top 6 C spot. Based off his draft position he's likely 50-50 to ever be an NHLer although he was ranked higher on a lot of mock drafts.

Then the 1st is a first, but when 2 out of the 3 assets are not what we want it's pretty easy to just keep Scheifele instead.

You seem pretty high on Pelletier but we were really high on Petan, who is the exact same size and also puts up point per game numbers in the AHL. So I wouldn't want to be banking on him as the centerpiece of a Scheifele trade either.

Which means for us it's either a hockey trade where it's Scheif for Andersson sort of thing or it's Coronato ++.

Coronato is a right shoting winger with some bite to his game, which we could actually use, but because he's going to Harvard I also wouldn't want to trade for him. After the Fox fiasco I'm surprised you guys aren't more gun shy about drafting guys headed there. That Harvard degree is worth so much that there is a huge incentive to stay in School and then just pick where you want to go as a UFA. Jimmy Vessey did it, Adam Fox did it and I'm worried that Coronato could do that too.

In summary, there isn't anything that would make sense for both teams. Not for Ehlers. Not for PLD. Not for Scheif.
 
Last edited:

Romang67

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Jan 2, 2011
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Your expectations are unreal. No one is trading away a projected #1 center for a center that is 29.
Most projected #1C aren't in the AHL in their draft+3 seasons. It's not unheard of, but acting as if Pelletier is a surefire future #1C at this point in his career is a big stretch.

As I said, if your hard limit for a point per game center on a friendly contract is Pelletier, there isn't a discussion to be had here. On the Jets end, it's very likely that any trade involving Scheifele starts with someone of Pelletier's value, and the other team keeps adding a lot.
 
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blankall

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Jul 4, 2007
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I think what you're not getting is that we have no need to trade Scheifele and would be better off not doing that at this time unless it is the exact deal that we want.

His caphit is incredibly friendly. He plays a premium position and he is a right handed shot, which also demands a premium. He's also 6'3 so he doesn't get pushed around and can toss a bodycheck when he wants to.

The packages that are being tossed around here would be similar to what we could get next year or the year after so there's no rush to do anything right now.

We currently don't have any Cs that are cemented past the end of next season other than Scheif. PLD hasn't signed long term (yet) and Perfetti/Lucius haven't played a single game at C in the NHL so we can't realistically bank on either of them being top 6 Cs at this point either. David Gustaffson may have top 6 upside but he keeps getting injured when we call him up and he's only played in a checking role in the NHL so far. While we do have some potential replacements, trading Scheif would mean the team is taking a big step back, not just writing this year off due to the COVID distractions and seeing what we can accomplish with a new coach next year.

In a trade we'd likely need to take some cap back in the form of a roster player and then we'd want that blue chipper plus a 1st. Unless we could find a 1 for 1 type trade (Jones for Johanson) sort of thing.

Valamaki is the exact last thing we need. We don't need another Left handed D prospect to add to JMo, Dillon, Stanley, Samberg, Heinola and Chisholm. I get that he is who you want to give, but that is not who we want to get.

Zary was drafted late in the first round and his 9 points through 25 AHL games this season doesn't scream Top 6 C. Again, he isn't proven at the NHL level so he would just be in competition with Perfetti, PLD and Lucious to maybe have a top 6 C spot. Based off his draft position he's likely 50-50 to ever be an NHLer although he was ranked higher on a lot of mock drafts.

Then the 1st is a first, but when 2 out of the 3 assets are not what we want it's pretty easy to just keep Scheifele instead.

You seem pretty high on Pelletier but we were really high on Petan, who is the exact same size and also puts up point per game numbers in the AHL. So I wouldn't want to be banking on him as the centerpiece of a Scheifele trade either.

Which means for us it's either a hockey trade where it's Scheif for Andersson sort of thing or it's Coronato ++.

Coronato is a right shoting winger with some bite to his game, which we could actually use, but because he's going to Harvard I also wouldn't want to trade for him. After the Fox fiasco I'm surprised you guys aren't more gun shy about drafting guys headed there. That Harvard degree is worth so much that there is a huge incentive to stay in School and then just pick where you want to go as a UFA. Jimmy Vessey did it, Adam Fox did it and I'm worried that Coronato could do that too.

In summary, there isn't anything that would make sense for both teams. Not for Ehlers. Not for PLD. Not for Scheif.

There are actually a lot of moves that make sense. Calgary has a variety of assets. The problem is that WPG fans don't realize that no team is trading a very young potential #1 centre for an aging out #1 centre. Not in the cap world. It's awful asset management.

If you think the team you has can win, then just keep it. If you want a hockey trade, it will have to be players of similar ages.
 

blankall

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Jul 4, 2007
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Most projected #1C aren't in the AHL in their draft+3 seasons. It's not unheard of, but acting as if Pelletier is a surefire future #1C at this point in his career is a big stretch.

As I said, if your hard limit for a point per game center on a friendly contract is Pelletier, there isn't a discussion to be had here. On the Jets end, it's very likely that any trade involving Scheifele starts with someone of Pelletier's value, and the other team keeps adding a lot.

Once again, the point you fail to mention is age. PPG centre who is also 29.
 

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