Recalled/Assigned: Edvinsson, Berggren & others sent to GR

[jkutswings]

I see a ton of major reactions based on a handful of preseason games. Fans don't see the practices or other behind-the-scenes opportunities that the coaching staff and management see to help make decisions.

I also see people not understanding that winning regular season games is the current and immediate goal for Lalonde, not making the most efficient development path of a particular prospect the highest priority.

Whether Edvinsson or Berggren or Soderblom or Johansson play 10 or 30 or 80 NHL games this season, they're all part of a franchise that now has better staff and development resources than at any time in the last 10-15 years. Each of these kids will be perfectly fine whenever the team decides they're ready.

It was fun to see several prospects flash some talent and make some strides. But I'm not going to pretend that everything is set in stone, or that I know better than Yzerman or Lalonde.

Time to relax, hope the existing roster players do well, and the kids each continue to bang down the door to get the call soon.

 

[FlyguyOX]

So Soderblom made the team?

 

[haulinbass]

Why is it ok for Maatta, Hagg, or Oesterle's mistakes to cost Wings a chance for a hint of a sniff of a playoff spot but the end of the world for Edvinsson's?

Everyone of course makes mistakes, even Seider. Those guys make a lot less mistakes than Edvinsson. This kids 19, it's OK. He is going to be here soon. As I said, he just proved to us he can make his dynamic abilities do good things in the NHL. That's a big sigh of relief to those of us who know how quickly a high end prospect like Edvinsson can suddenly not look so promising once they get a look at the NHL level. Now the next step is to resolve these mental errors and show enough consistency in doing so to get a shot to play in the NHL. Another harsh reality is, there's always a chance he will never refine those things enough. It happens all the time to highly drafted players. But for now, we have no reason to assume that his issues are anything more than being 19 and needing to focus and dial in on NA ice. It could take the kid anywhere from a half dozen AHL games to an entire season or possibly he never does it. It's up to him and that spot is Edvinssons as soon as he is ready, no doubt in my mind. Kids ability level is immense at his size. Playing top PP and big minutes will give him lots of oppertunity to work on the things the Wings staff has certainly thoroughly addressed with him.

 

[Gniwder]

So Soderblom made the team?

They are still over the roster limit.

 

[norrisnick]

I see a ton of major reactions based on a handful of preseason games. Fans don't see the practices or other behind-the-scenes opportunities that the coaching staff and management see to help make decisions.

I also see people not understanding that winning regular season games is the current and immediate goal for Lalonde, not making the most efficient development path of a particular prospect the highest priority.

Whether Edvinsson or Berggren or Soderblom or Johansson play 10 or 30 or 80 NHL games this season, they're all part of a franchise that now has better staff and development resources than at any time in the last 10-15 years. Each of these kids will be perfectly fine whenever the team decides they're ready.

It was fun to see several prospects flash some talent and make some strides. But I'm not going to pretend that everything is set in stone, or that I know better than Yzerman or Lalonde.

Time to relax, hope the existing roster players do well, and the kids each continue to bang down the door to get the call soon.

I wouldn't say peep if I didn't think Edvinsson playing would give the Wings the best chance to win now.

 

[jaster]

Is McIsaac basically a complete lost cause? He only played in one preseason game I saw and had little ice time.

I've always seen issues in his defensive game, but the idea was that he would clean those issues up and provide a solid two-way game with physicality. But man, those couple injury-plagued years.... sapped him of critical development time and I think the shoulder surgeries sapped him of some of that physical play. And with all the LHDs in the system ahead of him in the pecking order, it would seem he probably needs to go to another organization to get a real NHL chance. Or else just be resigned to a career in the A.

 

[norrisnick]

Everyone of course makes mistakes, even Seider. Those guys make a lot less mistakes than Edvinsson. This kids 19, it's OK. He is going to be here soon. As I said, he just proved to us he can make his dynamic abilities do good things in the NHL. That's a big sigh of relief to those of us who know how quickly a high end prospect like Edvinsson can suddenly not look so promising once they get a look at the NHL level. Now the next step is to resolve these mental errors and show enough consistency in doing so to get a shot to play in the NHL. Another harsh reality is, there's always a chance he will never refine those things enough. It happens all the time to highly drafted players. But for now, we have no reason to assume that his issues are anything more than being 19 and needing to focus and dial in on NA ice. It could take the kid anywhere from a half dozen AHL games to an entire season or possibly he never does it. It's up to him and that spot is Edvinssons as soon as he is ready, no doubt in my mind. Kids ability level is immense at his size. Playing top PP and big minutes will give him lots of oppertunity to work on the things the Wings staff has certainly thoroughly addressed with him.

"Those guys make a lot less mistakes than Edvinsson" Not since the preseason games started. Simon had a rough scrimmage but things dialed WAY back.

"Another harsh reality is, there's always a chance he will never refine those things enough." And even if they don't, the guys playing ahead of him lets us know it doesn't really matter. Just gotta get a little older to age out of waiver exemption.

 

[jaster]

So Soderblom made the team?

Yep.

 

[sepster]

I've always seen issues in his defensive game, but the idea was that he would clean those issues up and provide a solid two-way game with physicality. But man, those couple injury-plagued years.... sapped him of critical development time and I think the shoulder surgeries sapped him of some of that physical play. And with all the LHDs in the system ahead of him in the pecking order, it would seem he probably needs to go to another organization to get a real NHL chance. Or else just be resigned to a career in the A.

Does he show physicality in the AHL? I've only ever seen him when he's playing preseason or development/training camp and he just seems to be a more worthless version of Derek Meech.

 

[GreatGordie9]

They are still over the roster limit.

The Wings have a number of players that have to clear waivers or be claimed by other clubs. By 5pm EASTERN tomorrow I believe that they have to be down to 23 players at that point.

 

[Gniwder]

I wouldn't say peep if I didn't think Edvinsson playing would give the Wings the best chance to win now.

Stevie's looking at what's best for his development, and obviously he doesn't agree with you.

One (possibly partial) season in the AHL certainly isn't going to hurt his development. Posters like you are a dime a dozen during a rebuild, everyone wants to rush every prospect. I'd be more concerned about ruining prospects by rushing them then vice versa, especially because they already did with Cholo. I said from day one that kid wasn't ready. Ed could use some work as well, it's a lot easier to work on consistency against a lower level of competition. Hagg, Walman, Pysyk, Maata and Oestrle all have expiring contracts. Not sure why you're acting like this is the end of the world, it's complete OCD.

The Wings have a number of players that have to clear waivers or be claimed by other clubs. By 5pm EASTERN tomorrow I believe that they have to be down to 23 players at that point.

Yes. Keep in mind they still need to move Pysyk and Walman to LTIR as well, and I assume they will be on the 23 for cap reasons then moved. So there will be some paper transactions to GR as well.

 

[jaster]

Does he show physicality in the AHL? I've only ever seen him when he's playing preseason or development/training camp and he just seems to be a more worthless version of Derek Meech.

He had a highlight hit in GR last season that I remember going around for a minute, but I can't speak personally about his overall physical game. I've heard it's been dialed back compared to his pre-injury years though. Whatever physicality he does bring these days, it's not at the level of being intimidating that many were hoping for.

 

[jaster]

Yes. Keep in mind they still need to move Pysyk and Walman to LTIR as well, and I assume they will be on the 23 for cap reasons then moved. So there will be some paper transactions to GR as well.

If they have to make that paper move, they can send Veleno and Soderblom down for a minute, both waiver exempt, assign Walman and Pysyk to IR (Fabbri is already there because he was at the end of last season), and then bring Veleno and Soderblom "back up."

 

[haulinbass]

"Those guys make a lot less mistakes than Edvinsson" Not since the preseason games started. Simon had a rough scrimmage but things dialed WAY back.

"Another harsh reality is, there's always a chance he will never refine those things enough." And even if they don't, the guys playing ahead of him lets us know it doesn't really matter. Just gotta get a little older to age out of waiver exemption.

No way man, I watched every single shift of his from prospect camp through preseason. The last game was his best game by far and he still made a few really avoidable turnovers. The rest of the games I would toss a number like 6-8 avoidable mistakes per game. We aren't even getting into his errors defensively without the puck. Just his poor puck decisions alone. I give defenders a lot more break on without puck defensive lapses at this stage of development.

I never for one period watched these games and just seen the game itself happen, I picked up Edvinsson, Soderblom and Berggren the second they stepped on and off the ice and watched every inch they skated. I watched Veleno, Rasmussen, Zadina, Johansson and Kubalik as secondary targets. Everyone else I just picked up on when I could.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Simon Edvinsson should only have been bolted onto the day one NHL lineup if he passed the equivalent of the Mrs. Blashill test. The “so clear to everyone under the sun that he will be a plus asset”. If you’re going into the season with your 19 year old defenseman and you’re talking about he “needs to learn this” and “needs to adjust to the league and the ice size”. He’s not ready. He’s gonna be a good one, but the NHL isn’t a learn on the fly league.

Breathe, Sparrow. And you can “press x to doubt” all you want, but guys like Maatta are better NHL players than Simon Edvinsson is right now. He’s got a much higher ceiling than them to be sure, but he needs reps in an NA style league to develop.

I don’t understand this hate boner for the AHL in this topic. It’s respected as a developmental league because the play style is very NHL like and you’re playing against men on NHL sized rinks. I don’t know why you think Edvinsson has nothing to learn by playing there. I’d rather he adjust to the NA style of play out of the spotlight and come up ready to go than to slap him in the NHL and hope to god he swims (on a defense that is still going to be pretty weak overall)

 

[nbwingsfan]

This could be paper shenanigans to make room for cap compliance, but the fact that Elmer didn't get shipped and no D were waived makes that unlikely.

This is a move that doesn't help the Wings short of being able to keep Oesterle for whatever reason.

Nor does it help Edvinsson. The AHL won't teach him anything he didn't learn in the SHL.

Smaller ice ? That’s a big adjustment for some

 

[Michael Brand Eggs]

I think some of you have never seen Hagg play. You're in for a treat if you think he's better than Edvinsson.

 

[NickH8]

Simon Edvinsson should only have been bolted onto the day one NHL lineup if he passed the equivalent of the Mrs. Blashill test. The “so clear to everyone under the sun that he will be a plus asset”. If you’re going into the season with your 19 year old defenseman and you’re talking about he “needs to learn this” and “needs to adjust to the league and the ice size”. He’s not ready. He’s gonna be a good one, but the NHL isn’t a learn on the fly league.

Breathe, Sparrow. And you can “press x to doubt” all you want, but guys like Maatta are better NHL players than Simon Edvinsson is right now. He’s got a much higher ceiling than them to be sure, but he needs reps in an NA style league to develop.

I don’t understand this hate boner for the AHL in this topic. It’s respected as a developmental league because the play style is very NHL like and you’re playing against men on NHL sized rinks. I don’t know why you think Edvinsson has nothing to learn by playing there. I’d rather he adjust to the NA style of play out of the spotlight and come up ready to go than to slap him in the NHL and hope to god he swims (on a defense that is still going to be pretty weak overall)

I'm a big fan of the euro leagues for development but if a player needs to adjust to the physicality and ice surface of NA then the AHL is the best place for it.

 

[FireBird71]

Lots of cuts to be made still

 

[FireBird71]

Makes me wonder if Biakabatuka will get signed…if not then no clue why he’s still there

 

[jaster]

Lots of cuts to be made still

Yes, but they are all obvious. 3 injured guys and 6 non-NHLers are on the roster. Without them, we’re at 23.

 

[norrisnick]

Stevie's looking at what's best for his development, and obviously he doesn't agree with you.

One (possibly partial) season in the AHL certainly isn't going to hurt his development. Posters like you are a dime a dozen during a rebuild, everyone wants to rush every prospect. I'd be more concerned about ruining prospects by rushing them then vice versa, especially because they already did with Cholo. I said from day one that kid wasn't ready. Ed could use some work as well, it's a lot easier to work on consistency against a lower level of competition. Hagg, Walman, Pysyk, Maata and Oestrle all have expiring contracts. Not sure why you're acting like this is the end of the world, it's complete OCD.

It's not that it's the end of the world. It's that it just doesn't make sense to me, which irritates me. And since there's nothing better to do on a Sunday night short of lamenting the return to the trudgery of work in the morning I'm going to take my frustrations out on HFBoards. And I get that a lot of it comes down to differing of opinions but that's fine so long as said opinions make sense.

1. Is Edvinsson worse than Maatta, Hagg, and Oesterle?
- Obviously a matter of opinion. I don't think he is, but mileage may vary.

2. Would playing Edvinsson in a 2nd pairing role unnecessarily hurt the Wings and overall team progression?
- I honestly don't really see how an Edvinsson/Hronek pairing vs a Maatta/Hronek pairing could do anything of significance with regards to current or near future placements in the standings for the Wings. The Wings aren't at a place where the #3/#4 d-man is a make or break player. However being able to drop Maatta to the 3rd to solidify that one. That might be a net positive. This answer would probably change if we were at all in a position to challenge for the division lead and had expectations of going deep in the playoffs. As a middling long-shot for a Wild Card? Let the kids play and see what you've got.

3. Is Edvinsson's progression hurt or hampered by starting the season on the 3rd pairing in the NHL?
- Obviously a matter of opinion. I don't think it is, but I also don't see him staying under 15min/gm very long. If he's in and out of the roster playing single digits, send him somewhere to play. I believe he can and will force the issue to play.

4. Are there any concerns with Edvinsson playing against full grown men?
- Nope, and I doubt anyone would disagree. Can he get faster stronger? Yes, but that applies to literally anyone regardless of how long they've been in the league. Is he not strong or fast enough? No.

5. Are there concerns with there being fundamental flaws in Edvinsson's game? IE does he legitimately have issues defending, using angles, positioning, gap control, puck handling, passing, use of the stick defensively etc... ?
- Opinions may vary. I say no, not really. These are things he learned how to do over the past several years of development in one of the top pro leagues in the world. Are there more tricks he can learn? Absolutely, one should never stop learning and every coach has commended that Simon learns extremely quickly, Lalonde included.

6. Are there concerns with Edvinsson's play regarding pace?
- Yes. Absolutely. He needs to learn that he has far less time than he's used to with the puck. He needs to move to defensive spots quicker because the opposition is moving quicker. Opposing players are moving faster so the open holes for breakouts close much quicker and needs to anticipate a potential interception of a pass. Etc... This is by far the single biggest element that Simon needs to improve on. Everything is faster, everything needs to be faster, etc...

7. Where is it best to improve play at pace?
- This is where the massive difference in opinion lies. Personally I'm of the opinion that playing in a slow league will not teach someone to play at pace. This adjustment or discovering that there is actually an inability to adjust, can really only happen in the NHL. You can either keep up with the NHL pace or you can't. Playing in the AHL won't tell you one way or the other. Things you can get away with in the AHL you can't get away with in the NHL. That's why AHL allstars that can't hack it in the NHL exist. Even if you're the most polished perfect AHLer, you will still have an adjustment period to the pace of the NHL.

8. Will it help Edvinsson to be a #1 in the AHL top pairing minutes/PP1/PK1/etc...?
- Maybe? If the goal is to make him a great AHLer, sure. But special teams in the AHL and special teams in the NHL are two very different animals. Pace and the quality of players involved make them very different. That and Ed will likely never be the PPQB with the Wings. Mo has it locked up. And he's played plenty of special teams in Sweden to be good for unit 2 duty. He's also played lots of minutes before at all levels of hockey, so that's nothing new.

9. Did I get bored and start formatting this so it wasn't an atrocious wall of text?
- Yes I did.

 

[Cake Eater]

When did Europe move to the southern hemisphere.....or did we?

Dangit, do we really have to explain what the word hemisphere means? Hemi means half. Hemisphere means half of a sphere. There's such things as the western hemisphere and eastern hemisphere. Typically they are divided by the prime meridian.

 

[Dotter]

I wasn't impressed with Edvinsson. I knew he was getting sent down. I said it a few days ago. I know people get pissy if you compare Seider and Edvinsson, but Seider just oozed something special every shift at camp back in his early. Edvinsson looks like a prospect that needs significant amount of more work to be in any conversation with Mo at the same age.

Just proves Seider is a very special, special player. He's in a league of his own and we are dammmmmn lucky to have him!

 

[jaster]

Dangit, do we really have to explain what the word hemisphere means? Hemi means half. Hemisphere means half of a sphere. There's such things as the western hemisphere and eastern hemisphere. Typically they are divided by the prime meridian.

Europe is in the NORTHERN hemisphere.