Proposal: Edmonton - Montreal

[Habs10025]

Not worth it for the oilers lock er up.

Its not worth it for the Habs .

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

are you talking about the goalie allen . he doesn't make much , is only signed through next year and will actually steal you a few games

1) no he won't. If you're going to tell me Jake Allen is going to steal you some games... Quite literally any NHL goalie could steal you a couple games. Allen is as average as they come in net. Allen for Koskinen is a pretty fair trade actually. Koskinen is a backup making 4.5M who is UFA at end of year. Allen is a backup making 2.875 with another year of term. It's also not really a net gain for Edmonton to swap the two.

2) A backup goalie making 2.875m is actually quite a lot. Allen is not, and outside of an ill-fitting year in St. Louis,never has been a starter. He's a great backup.

 

[hardcorehabs]

Chairot + Toffoli + Allen + Lehkonen
(retention as needed to fit cap)

Koskinen + Keith + 1st 2022, 1st 2023, Broberg

 

[Habs Halifax]

Chairot + Toffoli + Allen + Lehkonen
(retention as needed to fit cap)

Koskinen + Keith + 1st 2022, 1st 2023, Broberg

Not going to comment about the value but Keith would have to waive his NMC for this to happen. Probably declines. Might have to replace Keith with Turris?

I also don't think the Oilers will want to trade either of Broberg or Bouchard cause they need them on the back end moving forward. So I would target Holloway and Bourgault. Still hurts for them but I believe they would be more open to them vs their close to NHL ready guys on D. And no, I don't want Samorukov. We have lots of that type in our pool already. Does nothing for us.

 

[jonlin]

No, they would have paid 9.25m for him. Like Columbus did for Werenski, Chicago did for Jones, etc. 9.25-9.5 was the market for 1Ds last year. Nurse would not be giving some team a 3M break annually on a long term deal.

Jones and Werenski are both A LOT better than Nurse. Both are overpaid 1-1,5M. I really much doubt any team would have paid as much for Nurse as for Hamilton, Jones & Werenski. There is absolutely no excuse for that. It`s like saying "McDavid got 12,5M - Aho, Point and Zibanajed should get the same". Nurse is a good player, but he is not a 1D.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Chairot + Toffoli + Allen + Lehkonen
(retention as needed to fit cap)

Koskinen + Keith + 1st 2022, 1st 2023, Broberg

This is more sensible than the Draisaitl absurdity but I can't see the Oilers giving up the equivalent of three firsts when the best piece coming back is Tyler Toffoli.

Plus the way things are going unless Holland finds his testicles and fires Tipppet that 2022 first could be a lotto pick.

 

[jonlin]

This is more sensible than the Draisaitl absurdity but I can't see the Oilers giving up the equivalent of three firsts when the best piece coming back is Tyler Toffoli.

How is that even an option? Keith has a NMC - its actually stupid to propose theese "Price for XXX, Keith for XXX" when they have a NO TRADE CLAUSULE!
And how the f*** do that "fit the cap"? Koskinen off the books in the summer and Keith a year after. That would put Oil in cap-hell or loose Puljujärvi + all thoose firsts.

 

[TFHockey]

This is more sensible than the Draisaitl absurdity but I can't see the Oilers giving up the equivalent of three firsts when the best piece coming back is Tyler Toffoli.

Plus the way things are going unless Holland finds his testicles and fires Tipppet that 2022 first could be a lotto pick.

I don't see the value in that trade at all. Three equivalent 1sts for all that "meh"?

Better to go after Chychrun and Vejmalki

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Jones and Werenski are both A LOT better than Nurse. Both are overpaid 1-1,5M. I really much doubt any team would have paid as much for Nurse as for Hamilton, Jones & Werenski. There is absolutely no excuse for that. It`s like saying "McDavid got 12,5M - Aho, Point and Zibanajed should get the same". Nurse is a good player, but he is not a 1D.

The market is the market. You can bitch about the contracts... but the market is the market. Those guys got those deals, so Nurse got his deal.

It's not remotely like that, because McDavid got his 12.5M several years ago. Jones, Werenski, and Nurse all got those contracts this same offseason. Hey, Wayne Gretzky played for 3M per year, so why are the Wings paying 4M to Robby Fabbri. Does Robby Fabbri think he's better than Wayne Gretzky?

Also, McDavid at 12.5M is a gigantic discount. You can very easily argue that he should have whatever the max deal is and that those other guys should have 12.5m deals. Teams don't just decide to pay players more money than they have to. The guys you're complaining about being overpaid? That's because that is the market price for their talent. And wonder of wonders, Jones, Werenski, and other D came in at damn near the same contract. I wonder why?

 

[TFHockey]

The market is the market. You can bitch about the contracts... but the market is the market. Those guys got those deals, so Nurse got his deal.

It's not remotely like that, because McDavid got his 12.5M several years ago. Jones, Werenski, and Nurse all got those contracts this same offseason. Hey, Wayne Gretzky played for 3M per year, so why are the Wings paying 4M to Robby Fabbri. Does Robby Fabbri think he's better than Wayne Gretzky?

Also, McDavid at 12.5M is a gigantic discount. You can very easily argue that he should have whatever the max deal is and that those other guys should have 12.5m deals. Teams don't just decide to pay players more money than they have to. The guys you're complaining about being overpaid? That's because that is the market price for their talent. And wonder of wonders, Jones, Werenski, and other D came in at damn near the same contract. I wonder why?

In regards to this topic, Holland made his own job signing Nurse more difficult. He traded Jones and a 2nd for Keith to Chicago, knowing full well the Hawks wanted to trade for and sign Seth Jones long term. Having his brother there and having more room under the cap was exactly what Chicago needed. So they signed Jones to a massive eight year $9.5 Million dollar contract AAV and a full NMC. Nurse's camp looked at that and said, well, who is going to play top minutes on the back end for the Oilers? Me, that's who.

So Holland was forced to sign Nurse for a similar and expensive long term contract, having helped define the market himself.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

In regards to this topic, Holland made his own job signing Nurse more difficult. He traded Jones and a 2nd for Keith to Chicago, knowing full well the Hawks wanted to trade for and sign Seth Jones long term. Having his brother there and having more room under the cap was exactly what Chicago needed. So they signed Jones to a massive eight year $9.5 Million dollar contract AAV and a full NMC. Nurse's camp looked at that and said, well, who is going to play top minutes on the back end for the Oilers? Me, that's who.

So Holland was forced to sign Nurse for a similar and expensive long term contract, having helped define the market himself.

Yup. That's the problem when you sign your guy last. Maybe you pay him too much if you're out front, but if you wait, you're basically at the whims of the market, even if he's not worth that.

It's why Kyle Quincey after one of the worst D seasons in recent memory actually got a 750k raise from Detroit a week or so after they basically said he wasn't coming back.

 

[ManofSteel55]

What team would pay Nurse 9,25M/8yrs. Thats more than Makar, Heiskanen, Hedman, Carlson, Chabot, Hughes, Ekblad and Josi. Nurse will be the 3rd best paid D in the league! Are you suggesting Nurse is a Top3 D?
Also, Jones&Werenski are heads and shoulders better than Nurse. There really is no contest.

You know full well that isn't how it works. Remove all of the RFA's on your list. Then remove any contract that is more than 2 years old. You can't compare contracts signed to start in 22/23 to ones that started in 17/18.

Jones isn't better than Nurse either. Nurse was on par with Werenski last year, and significantly better than Jones. I'm not even saying he's worth the full contract for what its worth. But when people come in and say he would get 6M on the free agent market, it shows they don't understand the free agent market.

 

[glenbuis]

1) no he won't. If you're going to tell me Jake Allen is going to steal you some games... Quite literally any NHL goalie could steal you a couple games. Allen is as average as they come in net. Allen for Koskinen is a pretty fair trade actually. Koskinen is a backup making 4.5M who is UFA at end of year. Allen is a backup making 2.875 with another year of term. It's also not really a net gain for Edmonton to swap the two.

2) A backup goalie making 2.875m is actually quite a lot. Allen is not, and outside of an ill-fitting year in St. Louis,never has been a starter. He's a great backup.

the only games montreal won this year he stole . last year he played well in the regular season . he is much better than koskinen or smith . anyway good luck with your starter search . i'm sure you can find one on the cheap .

 

[Boondock]

How is Lehkonen on a bad contract? Armia is paid as should be and Lehkonen is actually underpaid for what he brings

Armia is overpaid for being a defense only forward. In the past 3 seasons he's 310th overall in the league for points, 398th in pts per game. Yes he's a good penalty killer, but $3.4 over the next 4 seasons is a lot of cap and term commitment for winger with 1 specific skill set (that isn't scoring related). Lehkonen is where he should be.

 

[Boondock]

I don't think this deal works for the Oilers but you are overlooking Koskinen and Turris as cap dumps in that deal.

Both are in their final year - Armia has another 3.5 seasons.

 

[jfhabs]

Armia is overpaid for being a defense only forward. In the past 3 seasons he's 310th overall in the league for points, 398th in pts per game. Yes he's a good penalty killer, but $3.4 over the next 4 seasons is a lot of cap and term commitment for winger with 1 specific skill set (that isn't scoring related). Lehkonen is where he should be.

Yes it's a bit too much. However Armia is not necessarily bad offensively he's just not trying very often unfortunately. Out of 310 players, did you use forwards only or defenseman too? Without defenseman it would be around 250 players which puts him as an average 3rd line player in terms of offensive production.

 

[Boondock]

Yes it's a bit too much. However Armia is not necessarily bad offensively he's just not trying very often unfortunately. Out of 310 players, did you use forwards only or defenseman too? Without defenseman it would be around 250 players which puts him as an average 3rd line player in terms of offensive production.

I just filtered all players. Either way, he's not on a good contract either in term or $$ and he's owed more actual dollars in the final 3 years of the deal, so he's more expensive than the cap hit.

 

[UED]

Jones and Werenski are both A LOT better than Nurse. Both are overpaid 1-1,5M. I really much doubt any team would have paid as much for Nurse as for Hamilton, Jones & Werenski. There is absolutely no excuse for that. It`s like saying "McDavid got 12,5M - Aho, Point and Zibanajed should get the same". Nurse is a good player, but he is not a 1D.

I agree with you, the Nurse contract is absolutely awful and I don't know what they were thinking. Good player but makes 1st ballot HHOFer dman level money for the max term. But the elite dmen are all very, very underpaid which makes contracts like Nurse and Hamilton look a lot worse

 

[ole ole]

It literally doesnt address any issues oilers have. It helps mtl out and a ton and gives them a top 6 rw when oilers lose a top 6 rw but get a 3rd line lw in return when lw are a dime a dozen?

Top 6 RW? Who's he gonna replace for the Habs on the RW?
As bad as we are we don't need or have a use for Yamamoto. I guess we could try to trade him in hopes of getting a late 1n or a 3rd rd pick.
So basically your paying a 1st to dump some contracts while getting back 2 players who would improve your team.
Habs will pass. Leht is the type of player we can use in our Rebuild. A very good defensive player .

 

[ole ole]

But you offer 2 players with kinda bad contracts. So what did I miss?

If you think paying 2.5 for a very good defensive player that gives it every night then sir i think you need to watch another sport.

 

[ole ole]

I’d imagine that the Oilers would use their 1st rounder to fill roster holes... not just swap cap dumps. They’d also be taking back the one dump in Armia that has term.

You could take the 1st out entirely and it’s still a lateral move. Yama has the most potential upside. Armia has the longest problematic contract.

We have no room/need for any of the player coming back including Yam . Like a few have said it not the positions they are looking for.
Chiarot is one of the players they could use but it seems neither side will agree on what he's worth so i believe he'll go to another contender for what we want.

 

[ole ole]

And you are overlooking Armia as a cap dump in this deal

Armia isn't a cap dump. What do you expect ,Him to carry the team, ya that team that sits 2nd last in the league.

 

[Barnaby]

Armia isn't a cap dump. What do you expect ,Him to carry the team, ya that team that sits 2nd last in the league.

Of course he’s a cap dump... he has 1 goal and 4 assists while carrying a 3.4 million salary - WITH term. I’m not saying he’s the worst contract in the league but I def don’t see him as a positive especially to teams that will be pushing the cap limit.

 

[ole ole]

In what world has Joel Armia ever been more than a bottom 6 player?

He had one shortened season of 30pts in 58 games 4 years ago. All other seasons he has 15-25ish points in a full season.

I don't even think I need to address the narrative of a player being 38 and "in their prime"...

Well since you bring up all other seasons,
15 -25 but only played 1 full season

Over 365 GP he has a total of 130 pts. His up to date career average is ? You do the math. It's really simple math.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Armia isn't a cap dump. What do you expect ,Him to carry the team, ya that team that sits 2nd last in the league.

And neither is Turris lol?