Proposal: Edm-wpg

[Connor]

No. They can easily protect 4 D in the expansion draft and sacrifice a bottom-6 forward instead - a bottom-6 forward who will be replaced seamlessly in-house by another of the myriad of forwards they own.

Losing a low-end forward is obviously much easier on the roster vs. losing top-end D. Not sure why you'd assume otherwise.

First off, Winnipeg is a budget team. They aren't going to spend to the cap and like all other budget teams, they need to be extra careful when allocating dollars/cap space.

Second, the Jets have three right hand shot top 4 defencemen, a definite luxury. Trouba has stated he wants more responsibility; there is only so much ice time to go around. Trouba has played on the left side but that is an under-utilization of the way he shoots while a left hand shot could do better in that position.

No, fanboy thinking is defined by assuming that the Jets would need to a trade a d-man soon... such as you suggested.

Why should the Jets take a step back now and accept a forward in a trade that they don't at all need (like an Eberle), or a downgrade at D (like Nurse)? Nurse should really be starting the year in the A, frankly. If Trouba ever became available in trade, he is a far-greater chip than any of the trade proposals from Edmonton fans have ever acknowledged.

I imagine if Trouba gets traded it will be for a future's package: young player, prospect, pick.

Jets aren't contenders, it doesn't make sense for them to max out their cap now and or use limited funds for a position they are already strong in.

Jets have zero need to trade any Dmen. Expansion draft? Nope, Trouba situation? Nope........Jets are in control of both situations, they don't "need" to do anything. They may "choose" to do something but if they do it won't be out of desperation and take a bad deal, any deal they make will make this team a better team or they won't make it b/c they don't need to do anything.

Why hasn't Trouba signed yet then?

 

[heretik27]

First off, Winnipeg is a budget team. They aren't going to spend to the cap and like all other budget teams, they need to be extra careful when allocating dollars/cap space.

Second, the Jets have three right hand shot top 4 defencemen, a definite luxury. Trouba has stated he wants more responsibility; there is only so much ice time to go around. Trouba has played on the left side but that is an under-utilization of the way he shoots while a left hand shot could do better in that position.



I imagine if Trouba gets traded it will be for a future's package: young player, prospect, pick.

Jets aren't contenders, it doesn't make sense for them to max out their cap now and or use limited funds for a position they are already strong in.



Why hasn't Trouba signed yet then?

Jets management has some of the deepest pockets in professional sports. They've mentioned when the time is right they will have no problem spending to the cap, and I believe have already done so in the past 5 seasons. Trouba's agent is notorious for stalling out negotiations and being difficult to deal with, we had no problems signing Scheifele to a long term commitment nor Byfuglien earlier in the year. On our boards it was also said earlier that in an interview he mentioned he sees himself in a Jets uniform for game one this year. We've only heard they're interested in a long term deal, we don't know the particulars of the negotiations, but everything is pure speculation. Trouba hasn't expressed any desire to leave, nor does he seem worried about whether he'll be playing when the season starts. If a defenseman is to be traded on the right hand side, they will look to trade Myers after he's recovered from his surgery long before they trade Trouba.

 

[Hunter368]

First off, Winnipeg is a budget team. They aren't going to spend to the cap and like all other budget teams, they need to be extra careful when allocating dollars/cap space.

Second, the Jets have three right hand shot top 4 defencemen, a definite luxury. Trouba has stated he wants more responsibility; there is only so much ice time to go around. Trouba has played on the left side but that is an under-utilization of the way he shoots while a left hand shot could do better in that position.



I imagine if Trouba gets traded it will be for a future's package: young player, prospect, pick.

Jets aren't contenders, it doesn't make sense for them to max out their cap now and or use limited funds for a position they are already strong in.



Why hasn't Trouba signed yet then?

- Jets arent a budget team, that fantasy has been shot down more then once by the owner himself. Not to mention we've already spent to the cap.

- Coach played Trouba a lot last year, just not in the ways perhaps Trouba always liked. Trouba would love more pp time. Coach has already said this summer Trouba will be playing top 4 on the left side.

- We don't need anymore prospects or picks, were stacked already in those areas. Any trade involving Trouba makes our team worse, unless we get an equally good young LHD which highly unlikely happens.

- Jets control both situations b/c Trouba has no leverage, Jets could easily let him sit.....which no player would do b/c as others learnt it's a stupid move. Trouba will sign or sit out, either way Jets hold all the cards. I fully expect Trouba signs before season starts.

 

[Gump Hasek]

First off, Winnipeg is a budget team. They aren't going to spend to the cap and like all other budget teams, they need to be extra careful when allocating dollars/cap space.

Nice exercise in creative writing.

Firstly, you clearly do not have any clue about the people that own the Jets, of how they've been run to date, nor of their future spending plans. Their spending to-date has always been based upon their existing forward contractual obligations, and past performance is not an indicator of future behavior, FYI.

Here is the owner on the matter:

http://www.tsn.ca/radio/winnipeg-1290/chipman-we-ve-got-right-people-executing-the-plan-1.472111

 

[Connor]

- Jets arent a budget team, that fantasy has been shot down more then once by the owner himself. Not to mention we've already spent to the cap.

- Coach played Trouba a lot last year, just not in the ways perhaps Trouba always liked. Trouba would love more pp time. Coach has already said this summer Trouba will be playing top 4 on the left side.

- We don't need anymore prospects or picks, were stacked already in those areas. Any trade involving Trouba makes our team worse, unless we get an equally good young LHD which highly unlikely happens.

- Jets control both situations b/c Trouba has no leverage, Jets could easily let him sit.....which no player would do b/c as others learnt it's a stupid move. Trouba will sign or sit out, either way Jets hold all the cards. I fully expect Trouba signs before season starts.

When did the Jets spend to the cap?

From what I've learned, Trouba doesn't like the way the team uses him. I haven't heard it being specific to the being on the left side but if he is used there then the Jets are wasting Trouba; he'd play better on the right while an equally skilled defenceman should theoretically play better on the left where the Jets "plan" to use Trouba.

Every team needs prospects.

When is the last time a player missed a larger portion of the season? If Trouba requests a trade and the Jets don't trade him it reflects poorly on the organization.

Nice exercise in creative writing.

Firstly, you clearly do not have any clue about the people that own the Jets, of how they've been run to date, nor of their future spending plans. Their spending to-date has always been based upon their existing forward contractual obligations, and past performance is not an indicator of future behavior, FYI.

Here is the owner on the matter:

http://www.tsn.ca/radio/winnipeg-1290/chipman-we-ve-got-right-people-executing-the-plan-1.472111

From when the Jets started it was said that Chipman would spend to the cap to win. The Jets had to leave Winnipeg once and to make sure it doesn't happen again he was going to spend wisely.

I didn't listen to the 52 minute sales pitch.

 

[Connor]

- Jets arent a budget team, that fantasy has been shot down more then once by the owner himself. Not to mention we've already spent to the cap.

- Coach played Trouba a lot last year, just not in the ways perhaps Trouba always liked. Trouba would love more pp time. Coach has already said this summer Trouba will be playing top 4 on the left side.

- We don't need anymore prospects or picks, were stacked already in those areas. Any trade involving Trouba makes our team worse, unless we get an equally good young LHD which highly unlikely happens.

- Jets control both situations b/c Trouba has no leverage, Jets could easily let him sit.....which no player would do b/c as others learnt it's a stupid move. Trouba will sign or sit out, either way Jets hold all the cards. I fully expect Trouba signs before season starts.

You didn't answer my question: Why hasn't Trouba signed yet?

 

[Gump Hasek]

From when the Jets started it was said that Chipman would spend to the cap to win. The Jets had to leave Winnipeg once and to make sure it doesn't happen again he was going to spend wisely.

I didn't listen to the 52 minute sales pitch.

Again, as stated, you clearly have zero understanding regarding the matter, and further, have now demonstrated you are unwilling to garner the knowledge required to comment with any insight into the topic.

Even your attempt to paraphrase Chipman's past words is incorrect. What he stated back then essentially was that they will spend to the cap when they feel they've a lineup worthy of doing damage in the playoffs and going on a deep run. You have attempted to quantify them as a budget team, despite that the owner himself says in the linked interview that their only "budget" to-date has been their existing contractual obligations.

They bought a team that had just a few NHL-worthy players and a bunch of filler - all signed to NHL contracts. They've since transitioned that team toward one of their own choosing via the draft. They are now at a point in that cycle where their contractual obligations included some RFAs' - which would require increased spending going forward. The owner acknowledged that and is fully prepared to do it. That doesn't smack of being a budget team, but rather, speaks to organizational-building. They are just getting started.

 

[Hunter368]

You didn't answer my question: Why hasn't Trouba signed yet?

Simple, negotiations like all the unsigned RFA players, if I was them I wouldn't sign yet either....no reason keep negotiating for ever dime. Really only becomes any issue once regular season games start to be missed.

 

[Hunter368]

When did the Jets spend to the cap?

From what I've learned, Trouba doesn't like the way the team uses him. I haven't heard it being specific to the being on the left side but if he is used there then the Jets are wasting Trouba; he'd play better on the right while an equally skilled defenceman should theoretically play better on the left where the Jets "plan" to use Trouba.

Every team needs prospects.

When is the last time a player missed a larger portion of the season? If Trouba requests a trade and the Jets don't trade him it reflects poorly on the organization.



From when the Jets started it was said that Chipman would spend to the cap to win. The Jets had to leave Winnipeg once and to make sure it doesn't happen again he was going to spend wisely.

I didn't listen to the 52 minute sales pitch.

Trouba's concern is he wants to play a bigger role on the team, not surprisingly. He wants top 4 mins and situations so he can keep developing and get quality mins with a quality partner and forwards. He stated he prefers right side b/c that was his position growing up but understands the need to play left side for the team.

We're so loaded with forwards it's sick, likely have to start trading them away. That's why we can afford to protect 4 D and lose a bottom 6 forward to draft....they can be replaced internally. No need for goalie prospects either. Only area where we could use some prospects that project to top 4 are d man. Those don't grow on trees.

Jets did it 13-14

What? No it doesn't, lots of players have requested traded then don't get moved. Travis H is latest big name who requested and Snow didn't do it. Kane requested traded 2-3 years in a row and Chevy didn't trade him. Sorry that's just silly and not NHL reality.

Pass on virtually any trade, just makes us worse and isn't required.....very happy to sign Trouba for 6-8 years.

 

[zar]

He's every bit as good as Adam Larsson and 2 years younger

Wrong and wrong. He is only 1 year younger and he is not as good as Larsson.

Why do posters keep involving Oilers with Trouba? The Jets fans have said a million times they are not interested in trading him for anything other than a similar aged and NHL ready Dman. Nurse is not as NHL ready as Trouba today. Klefbom and Larsson are better than Trouba and the Jets POSTERS have already said they are not interested in anything else the Oiler would be willing to trade. It's a dead issue!

Not to mention, based on rumors, Trouba will not be signed at a price the Oilers would not be willing to pay for a RHD 2nd pairing D. They currently need a 2nd pairing RHD who can QB a PP and has above average offensive ability for around 4-5M ish or an excellent above average RHD 1st/2nd pairing D at a fair value (likely never going to happen as they are almost never available). Trouba looks to be a higher end 2nd pairing Dman with average offensive skills but his contract... well one could surmise it will be significantly more than the $4.167M we are paying Larsson for the next 5 years.

 

[TheGreat]

Boston had the cap space so thats a flat out lie. He didn't fit Neely's idea of a Bruin(just like Seguin)
The Oilers traded a top 30 forward for a top 15 RHD see how that works

Dam, Oiler fans used to rate Hall as Top 5 left winger and now he's a 30 Top Forward

 

[King1s]

Dam, Oiler fans used to rate Hall as Top 5 left winger and now he's a 30 Top Forward

What is the difference?

 

[ffh]

Wrong and wrong. He is only 1 year younger and he is not as good as Larsson.

Why do posters keep involving Oilers with Trouba? The Jets fans have said a million times they are not interested in trading him for anything other than a similar aged and NHL ready Dman. Nurse is not as NHL ready as Trouba today. Klefbom and Larsson are better than Trouba and the Jets POSTERS have already said they are not interested in anything else the Oiler would be willing to trade. It's a dead issue!

Not to mention, based on rumors, Trouba will not be signed at a price the Oilers would not be willing to pay for a RHD 2nd pairing D. They currently need a 2nd pairing RHD who can QB a PP and has above average offensive ability for around 4-5M ish or an excellent above average RHD 1st/2nd pairing D at a fair value (likely never going to happen as they are almost never available). Trouba looks to be a higher end 2nd pairing Dman with average offensive skills but his contract... well one could surmise it will be significantly more than the $4.167M we are paying Larsson for the next 5 years.

we need a qb on the power play lets trade hall for a stay at home dman. it is ok to at least break even when you make a trade oilers. ahl dman for a 1st 2 years ago another great move.
as for trouba he will be the starting 1st pairing ld this year. love the logic though he plays behind 1 of the best rd in the league so therefore he must be a second pairing dman. like nuge or drai they aren't good enough to be 1st line centres. has nothing to do that they play behind McDavid. I would be more worried about their dissatisfaction than trouba's.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

we need a qb on the power play lets trade hall for a stay at home dman. it is ok to at least break even when you make a trade oilers. ahl dman for a 1st 2 years ago another great move.

The goal of a trade isn't just to get "fair value". The goal of a trade is to make your team better. If you can do both, then that's great, but still, making the team better is the primary goal. Are the Oilers, as the roster stands today, better with Hall or better with Larsson? Personally, I think the answer is Larsson, but time will tell. It's also not required to fill all of a team's holes in 1 offseason. After years of futility, I think the Oilers are starting to get it right, although being lucky enough to get McDavid surely helps.

Over 2 seasons, they solidified their D by signing Sekera and trading for Larsson, they look to have shored up their goaltending, they brought in a good coach, they've added some size with Lucic and Maroon. I expect that if they stay relatively healthy, we'll see a much better Oilers team this year and they'll continue to address holes as the move forward.

 

[JetsHomer]

You didn't answer my question: Why hasn't Trouba signed yet?

Why haven't Gaudreau, Lindholm of Ristolainen sign yet?

 

[Connor]

Again, as stated, you clearly have zero understanding regarding the matter, and further, have now demonstrated you are unwilling to garner the knowledge required to comment with any insight into the topic.

Even your attempt to paraphrase Chipman's past words is incorrect. What he stated back then essentially was that they will spend to the cap when they feel they've a lineup worthy of doing damage in the playoffs and going on a deep run. You have attempted to quantify them as a budget team, despite that the owner himself says in the linked interview that their only "budget" to-date has been their existing contractual obligations.

They bought a team that had just a few NHL-worthy players and a bunch of filler - all signed to NHL contracts. They've since transitioned that team toward one of their own choosing via the draft. They are now at a point in that cycle where their contractual obligations included some RFAs' - which would require increased spending going forward. The owner acknowledged that and is fully prepared to do it. That doesn't smack of being a budget team, but rather, speaks to organizational-building. They are just getting started.

If I link you to a 200 page thesis on why the Jets would trade Trouba, are you going to read it?

You have failed to look at my previous post(s) correctly and vecame fixated on one part. Allocation of dollars/cap space is important budget or cap team. I said it was even more important on a budget team.

Spending on Trouba takes away from another area and the Jets are already strong with right side defencemen.

Simple, negotiations like all the unsigned RFA players, if I was them I wouldn't sign yet either....no reason keep negotiating for ever dime. Really only becomes any issue once regular season games start to be missed.

I've heard on various media that the Jets aren't convinced Trouba can play the role he wants to play hence the dollars he's asking for.

Trouba's concern is he wants to play a bigger role on the team, not surprisingly. He wants top 4 mins and situations so he can keep developing and get quality mins with a quality partner and forwards. He stated he prefers right side b/c that was his position growing up but understands the need to play left side for the team.

We're so loaded with forwards it's sick, likely have to start trading them away. That's why we can afford to protect 4 D and lose a bottom 6 forward to draft....they can be replaced internally. No need for goalie prospects either. Only area where we could use some prospects that project to top 4 are d man. Those don't grow on trees.

Jets did it 13-14

What? No it doesn't, lots of players have requested traded then don't get moved. Travis H is latest big name who requested and Snow didn't do it. Kane requested traded 2-3 years in a row and Chevy didn't trade him. Sorry that's just silly and not NHL reality.

Pass on virtually any trade, just makes us worse and isn't required.....very happy to sign Trouba for 6-8 years.

Doesn't seem like Trouba wants to sign for 6-8 years,

Why haven't Gaudreau, Lindholm of Ristolainen sign yet?

All those players are key players to their team: Gaudreau most offensive player, Lindholm best defenceman and Ristolainen best defenceman,

Trouba is what? The 4th best defenceman? He wants to play on the PP and such while Jets management is not sold on him playing there.

 

[GoJetsGo55]

This thread is hilarious.

It's like certain people have decided to rehash the same old debunked points from months ago.

I’d suggest it’s your inability to distinguish bad play from good play. Alternatively you could just be making stuff up in the hopes no one would call you on it.


The worst CF% Trouba put up against the Oilers last year in an individual game was 57% in spite of heavy defensive zone use in 2 of the 3 games. In the one where he started in the offensive zone more often he was at 67%

http://hockeystats.ca/game/2015020833
http://hockeystats.ca/game/2015020984
http://hockeystats.ca/game/2015020506

You're doing Gods work my son!

 

[GoJetsGo55]

If I link you to a 200 page thesis on why the Jets would trade Trouba, are you going to read it?

You have failed to look at my previous post(s) correctly and vecame fixated on one part. Allocation of dollars/cap space is important budget or cap team. I said it was even more important on a budget team.

Again, we are not a budget team. No matter how many times you say it, and not matter how many times you click your heels, it won't come true. The fact that we have not spent up to the ceiling yet is not an indication that we won't. We have young players that will be paid a hefty price in the future so cap space is a commodity. Spending for the sake of spending is how Clarkson got his albatross of a contract.

Spending on Trouba takes away from another area and the Jets are already strong with right side defencemen.
Trouba moves to the left = problem solved. Myers only has a few years left as well. Trouba is the D-stud of the future for us. You don't just move him cause you're strong at that position. It's like telling the Penguins to move Malkin because they already have Crosby.


I've heard on various media that the Jets aren't convinced Trouba can play the role he wants to play hence the dollars he's asking for.

The JETS aren't convinced that Trouba can play the left side? They saw him do it successfully last year. His numbers went up significantly when he was removed from Stuart and put next to Buff. You're going to have to provide a reference for that. Until then, it's all fabrication.



Doesn't seem like Trouba wants to sign for 6-8 years,
Complete speculation that has been completely debunked multiple times.

All those players are key players to their team: Gaudreau most offensive player, Lindholm best defenceman and Ristolainen best defenceman,

Trouba is what? The 4th best defenceman? He wants to play on the PP and such while Jets management is not sold on him playing there.

Trouba is slotted to play next to Buff on the 1st line next year. How is that not a key position???????

Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh. I'll bite. See the bolded above.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Eberle + nurse +2nd

For

Trouba + wpg first rounder

Winnipeg has no use for Eberle not with Laine and Connor in the lineup, Plus Cheveldayoff has no use for Nurse he isn't an upgrade over losing Trouba pretty sure that Klefbom needs to go to Winnipeg. At best Nurse is a 5/6 D-man.

 

[Gump Hasek]

If I link you to a 200 page thesis on why the Jets would trade Trouba, are you going to read it?

You have failed to look at my previous post(s) correctly and vecame fixated on one part. Allocation of dollars/cap space is important budget or cap team. I said it was even more important on a budget team.

You have continually repeated nonsense on this board, and on multiple occasions in the past as well, by spewing blather that the Jets are a budget team - when they are not, period.

You can't just choose a point in time when a franchise is relocated, when a new management group is in the process of transitioning 70% of its roster toward a much younger team, and then simply term it a budget squad. Their spending during the period was essentially dictated by their contractual obligations at that time. Does it make sense to spend to the cap while your plan is to dismantle the current team? No, it does not. However, while in the midst of that cycle, when players you have chosen begin coming due as RFAs', it does make sense that spending will begin to ramp upward. That is where they currently stand.

To summarize, not a budget team, and you still have zero idea of which you speak.

 

[ffh]

trouba signs for around 5 mill probably a little less but even if it a little more who cares 25 mill coming off the books in the next 2 years with only ehlers and little being big ticket items. and that's even if the want to keep little with petan a further 2 years into his development. 16 million in expansion money coming in too next year. Stafford pavelec stuart enstrom thorburn all gone and replaced in house. thanks we will be fine .

 

[cneely]

If I link you to a 200 page thesis on why the Jets would trade Trouba, are you going to read it?

Probably not. But if I chose to not educate myself, I'd probably stop arguing with people who know more about the situation than I.

I've heard on various media that the Jets aren't convinced Trouba can play the role he wants to play hence the dollars he's asking for.

Huh? I live in Winnipeg and have heard nothing of the sort. Certainly, a 22 year old defenceman with over 200 NHL games under his belt and a selection to the World Cup would presumably have some significant skills that are desired by most teams, including the Jets.

All those players are key players to their team: Gaudreau most offensive player, Lindholm best defenceman and Ristolainen best defenceman,

Trouba is what? The 4th best defenceman? He wants to play on the PP and such while Jets management is not sold on him playing there.

I would say at this point, Trouba is the second best Jets defenceman behind Buff. He was third in minutes per game last year, just slightly behind Myers, and I expect him to overtake Myers this year.

FWIW, Lindholm played fewer minutes per game than Fowler last year.

Will Trouba play power play? Not sure, at least on PP1. The Jets may go with Buff and 4 forwards given their forward depth. Is this a deal breaker? I highly doubt it.

 

[Measles]

trouba signs for around 5 mill probably a little less but even if it a little more who cares 25 mill coming off the books in the next 2 years with only ehlers and little being big ticket items. and that's even if the want to keep little with petan a further 2 years into his development. 16 million in expansion money coming in too next year. Stafford pavelec stuart enstrom thorburn all gone and replaced in house. thanks we will be fine .

I think that's pretty optimistic. I expect more like 6-6.5m AAV x 7 years. No way he signs for under 5m unless it's a 2yr bridge deal or something.

 

[lomiller1]

First off, Winnipeg is a budget team. They aren't going to spend to the cap and like all other budget teams

Not exactly, they certainly need to be aware of their budget but can spend to the cap if they have a roster capable of winning a playoff round or two. “Spend to the cap because the money is there†isn’t a strategy that works in the NHL, if you are spending to the cap it had better be because you have the talent on your roster to be a top team so they are at no disadvantage there. The only thing the Jets lose out on is the ability to take bad contracts in exchange for assets.

When did the Jets spend to the cap?

If you are spending to the cap without cup contending talent you are doing it wrong. Teams that take this management approach will never win because it means they have already handcuffed themselves with bad contracts and no longer have the ability to add talent to their roster. IMO it’s the single best indicators of a poorly managed team.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Dam, Oiler fans used to rate Hall as Top 5 left winger and now he's a 30 Top Forward

Why is he not both? I think there are probably at least 15 centers I would rank above any LW other than Ovi and Benn, including Hall, who is still the #3/4 best LW in the game (him vs Gaudreau is still a debate). So it really is the same thing, isn't it?