Proposal: EDM-NYI

[bucks_oil]

The trade is worse combined then what it would be separate. It’s not so much a hockey trade as it is a way for Edmonton to escape bad contracts. If anything, no need for the Islanders to take back Turris/Koskinen/Barrie just because they keep getting pushed into contracts. An actual hockey trade would be something that improves the team, not goes 6 steps back to go 2 forward.

I'm referring specifically to TFHockey's proposed counter to you:

• To NYI: Bourgault, 1st and 30 games of Koskinen + Turris salary
• To EDM: Varlamov, Mayfield

There is no Barrie in there. There are no bad contracts that you need to retain. Koskinen and Turris are simply balancing salaries for this year and then of zero consequence to you as they are expiring. You actually gain cap space for next year.

Where are the "6 steps back"? You essentially lose one roster player and a backup goalie and gain a A-rated prospect, a 1st and >$5M in cap. All of that can help make you better next year and the years following.

Note: there are no teams that can trade for Varlamov without you taking salary back. So if you plan to harvest the value in that asset, now is the time and expiring salary is a great scenario for you, as it gives you freedom to spend this summer. If you plan to keep Varlamov for one more year as a backup, that's a perspective, but wouldn't it be better to gain a 1st and spend his $5M elsewhere?

 

[TFHockey]

Koskinen and a 1st for Varly is deal most Isles fan will get behind. Zero chance Mayfield is moved for anything other then a top 6 forward.

In your opinion. Just that,

HF never gets trades right. We literally miss 99% of the time. I am betting that statement is part of the 99% misses.

So not exactly ZERO. More like 99% he does go for something else. If NYI trades him, that is.

 

[McSuper]

Why are you devaluing Varlamov? An equivalent goalie got traded in the off-season for a first round pick, an additional third round pick, and a project prospect. That sets the market as that's the most recent and relevant comparable.

Not to mention all things give NYI leverage and the potential playoff trading partner less leverage:
1. There's very few, if any, other good goalie options available for playoff teams who need goalie upgrades.
2. There's no need for NYI to trade Varlamov as he's not a pending UFA and we can easily go into next season with a tandem of Sorokin and Varlamov.
3. There's at least two playoff teams who need goalie upgrades in Vegas and Edmonton, possibly more.

This is BS . Did the Hall trade set the market price on D men ? Nope . If you think so, Keith trade has set the market on Barrie's value . You can't have it both ways .

LMAO off at the Mayfield being worth 2 1st . Good player but my god this is a bad take . McDavid must be worth 30 1st .

 

[miscs75]

I'm referring specifically to TFHockey's proposed counter to you:

• To NYI: Bourgault, 1st and 30 games of Koskinen + Turris salary
• To EDM: Varlamov, Mayfield

There is no Barrie in there. There are no bad contracts that you need to retain. Koskinen and Turris are simply balancing salaries for this year and then of zero consequence to you as they are expiring. You actually gain cap space for next year.

Where are the "6 steps back"? You essentially lose one roster player and a backup goalie and gain a A-rated prospect, a 1st and >$5M in cap. All of that can help make you better next year and the years following.

Note: there are no teams that can trade for Varlamov without you taking salary back. So if you plan to harvest the value in that asset, now is the time and expiring salary is a great scenario for you, as it gives you freedom to spend this summer. If you plan to keep Varlamov for one more year as a backup, that's a perspective, but wouldn't it be better to gain a 1st and spend his $5M elsewhere?

The trade can actually be broken down into 2 parts:
Turris/Borgault/1st for Mayfield
Koskinen for Varlamov

Essentially it's an underpayment by Edmonton to sure up major holes and leaves the Islanders with AHL calibre players to finish off a seaon, a prospect and a late 1st.

The trade is actually awful for the Islanders. It's a late first and prospect to take on 2 bad contracts to help give Edmonton insurance moving forward. It really doesn't make the Islanders better next season unless you're convinced that the 1st can turn into a lottery pick, giving the Islanders a shot at both Wright and another top prospect or possibly even make it a 2023 1st (unprotected) for a shot at Bedard/Michkov.
If you're really convinced Varlamov is a backup, you're sadly mistaken. Even in a bad year with him starting late due to an injury/Covid, he still has similar GAA/SV% to 19-20. He's still a dependable starter but looks exposed since the Islanders have been an anomaly this year. The goaltending market for backups is absolutely abysmal this summer that it makes Koskinen actually look like an NHL player.
Please take a look at the free agent class for defensemen and find one whos comparable to Mayfield in both play style and quality for a similar contract. That's the issue with moving him for cap dumps and prospects.

 

[JTToilinginToronto]

This is BS . Did the Hall trade set the market price on D men ? Nope . If you think so, Keith trade has set the market on Barrie's value . You can't have it both ways .

LMAO off at the Mayfield being worth 2 1st . Good player but my god this is a bad take . McDavid must be worth 30 1st .

I'm not the one who said Mayfield was worth 2 firsts, look at the names of the posters who say stuff before typing.

If you don't want to pay a first for Varly, then no biggie, we'll keep him. A second round pick simply isn't good enough to lose the tandem of Sorokin and Varlamov for next season. We need more value coming back to break up that combo.

Good luck in the playoffs with Smith and Koskinen lol

 

[TFHockey]

The trade can actually be broken down into 2 parts:
Turris/Borgault/1st for Mayfield
Koskinen for Varlamov

Essentially it's an underpayment by Edmonton to sure up major holes and leaves the Islanders with AHL calibre players to finish off a seaon, a prospect and a late 1st.

The trade is actually awful for the Islanders. It's a late first and prospect to take on 2 bad contracts to help give Edmonton insurance moving forward. It really doesn't make the Islanders better next season unless you're convinced that the 1st can turn into a lottery pick, giving the Islanders a shot at both Wright and another top prospect or possibly even make it a 2023 1st (unprotected) for a shot at Bedard/Michkov.
If you're really convinced Varlamov is a backup, you're sadly mistaken. Even in a bad year with him starting late due to an injury/Covid, he still has similar GAA/SV% to 19-20. He's still a dependable starter but looks exposed since the Islanders have been an anomaly this year. The goaltending market for backups is absolutely abysmal this summer that it makes Koskinen actually look like an NHL player.
Please take a look at the free agent class for defensemen and find one whos comparable to Mayfield in both play style and quality for a similar contract. That's the issue with moving him for cap dumps and prospects.

Dead wrong.

Mayfield does not garner two firsts, and Turris does not cost a 1st to move. FFS.

30 games and then UFA for both Turris and Koskinen is about a good as a cap leveling measure you're ever going to see. You're getting effectively two firsts for Mayfield and Varlamov. This is a generous offer. Probably way more than the Islanders are actually going to get.

 

[TFHockey]

I'm not the one who said Mayfield was worth 2 firsts, look at the names of the posters who say stuff before typing.

If you don't want to pay a first for Varly, then no biggie, we'll keep him. A second round pick simply isn't good enough to lose the tandem of Sorokin and Varlamov for next season. We need more value coming back to break up that combo.

Good luck in the playoffs with Smith and Koskinen lol

Nice. Make your jokes. You're paying $9 Million for both Sorokin and Varlamov to NOT MAKE the playoffs. Throw away money on the golf course, if that makes you happy.

 

[JTToilinginToronto]

This is a generous offer. .

Nope. That's a fair offer from both sides. Edmonton is getting in all likelihood the best goalie potentially available this trade deadline (who is also better than every UFA goalie this coming summer) and a 2nd pairing defensive defenseman with size who is battled tested who is making peanuts this year and next year. Again, you'd be getting both for two shots at the playoffs.

That's a lot of value for Edmonton. Those type of assets fill big needs for you guys, and that doesn't come cheap.

 

[miscs75]

Dead wrong.

Mayfield does not garner two firsts, and Turris does not cost a 1st to move. FFS.

30 games and then UFA for both Turris and Koskinen is about a good as a cap leveling measure you're ever going to see. You're getting effectively two firsts for Mayfield and Varlamov. This is a generous offer. Probably way more than the Islanders are actually going to get.

The Islanders are better off trading both separate then together. Trading them together is actually downgrading the value of both Mayfield and Varlamov. The additional year of control for both players is actually a plus and the fact that you're convinced the Islanders are in cap hell and need to move for space is the issue. Mayfield can easily play top 4 minutes and is a very rare commodity across the league (terms of play style and the fact he's a RHD), a prospect and a pick plus a cap dump honestly isn't a fair return for the Islanders unless the prospect can step in and make an impact next season with no hiccups. Why move a positive asset for a neutral/negative return honestly? It doesn't improve the roster going forward unless you're looking 3-4 years down the road and are convinced the Islanders are rebuilding (which would be completely incorrect).
As for the goaltending; you've stated multiple times yourself that Varlamov is just n overpaid backup yet he's better then every option in your system, still plays like a starting goalie (even with the covid outbreak and injury causing his loss of games played). Why move your starter for a backup? Really doesn't make sense.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Nope. That's a fair offer from both sides. Edmonton is getting in all likelihood the best goalie potentially available this trade deadline (who is also better than every UFA goalie this coming summer) and a 2nd pairing defensive defenseman with size who is battled tested who is making peanuts this year and next year. Again, you'd be getting both for two shots at the playoffs.

That's a lot of value for Edmonton. Those type of assets fill big needs for you guys, and that doesn't come cheap.

Hope Mayfield gets top value because we got another one in Dillion.

 

[JTToilinginToronto]

Hope Mayfield gets top value because we got another one in Dillion.

Somewhat similar, but let's not forget that Mayfield only makes $1.45M, and he's locked into another year at that rate.

 

[bucks_oil]

The trade can actually be broken down into 2 parts:
Turris/Borgault/1st for Mayfield
Koskinen for Varlamov

Essentially it's an underpayment by Edmonton to sure up major holes and leaves the Islanders with AHL calibre players to finish off a seaon, a prospect and a late 1st.

The trade is actually awful for the Islanders. It's a late first and prospect to take on 2 bad contracts to help give Edmonton insurance moving forward. It really doesn't make the Islanders better next season unless you're convinced that the 1st can turn into a lottery pick, giving the Islanders a shot at both Wright and another top prospect or possibly even make it a 2023 1st (unprotected) for a shot at Bedard/Michkov.
If you're really convinced Varlamov is a backup, you're sadly mistaken. Even in a bad year with him starting late due to an injury/Covid, he still has similar GAA/SV% to 19-20. He's still a dependable starter but looks exposed since the Islanders have been an anomaly this year. The goaltending market for backups is absolutely abysmal this summer that it makes Koskinen actually look like an NHL player.
Please take a look at the free agent class for defensemen and find one whos comparable to Mayfield in both play style and quality for a similar contract. That's the issue with moving him for cap dumps and prospects.

A few things:

1) That is not the way I would break it down:

• Bourgault for Mayfield, with expiring Turris contract offsetting the salary for 30 games
• 1st for Varlamov, with expiring Koskinen offsetting the salary for 30 games
• 2022/23 Cap Implications :
  • NYI: Bourgault can make your team at ELC which helps, you gain $6.5 to spend on a backup goalie and a D.
  • EDM: +5M in Varlamov, +$1.45M in Mayfield essentially spends the money we save in Koskinen & Turris

2) "Prospect and a 1st to take on 2 bad contracts". Again... you aren't taking on any contracts for next year. What does it matter for this year? It doesn't. You are likely tanking for a pick at this stage and you don't need cap space anyway.

3) I haven't said Varlamov is a mere backup, you are confusing me with someone else. He's 1B tandem starter and one, I would argue, you have limited use for with Sorokin's emergence as a true #1. So you are trading from strength here. Maybe Varlamov is worth a 1st at next year's TDL, maybe he's not... the market is strong now. We are offering one now, and trading him now nets you a 1st plus the ability to make use of that free cap space next year (when it matters to your competitiveness) instead of "wasting" it on your 1B goalie.

4) I agree it isn't the strongest market for starters this summer, but the backup market is just fine: Husso, Francouz, Forsberg, Vanacek, Holtby are all pretty decent options if all that you need is a 20 game guy to back up Sorokin taking the true #1 role.

5) The Oilers 1st will be mid-round, currently 17th.

6) Agree, there isn't a UFA similar to Mayfield that you can replace him with, but there would be plenty in the $3-4M range... that's why I'm suggesting you spend Varlamov's money upgrading on a D. But I would understand if Mayfield just isn't on the table at all.

7) In that case you should still consider the Varlamov part of the deal and use the extra money upgrade D or forward through UFA.

 

[miscs75]

A few things:

1) That is not the way I would break it down:

• Bourgault for Mayfield, with expiring Turris contract offsetting the salary for 30 games
• 1st for Varlamov, with expiring Koskinen offsetting the salary for 30 games
• 2022/23 Cap Implications :
  • NYI: Bourgault can make your team at ELC which helps, you gain $6.5 to spend on a backup goalie and a D.
  • EDM: +5M in Varlamov, +$1.45M in Mayfield essentially spends the money we save in Koskinen & Turris

2) "Prospect and a 1st to take on 2 bad contracts". Again... you aren't taking on any contracts for next year. What does it matter for this year? It doesn't. You are likely tanking for a pick at this stage and you don't need cap space anyway.

3) I haven't said Varlamov is a mere backup, you are confusing me with someone else. He's 1B tandem starter and one, I would argue, you have limited use for with Sorokin's emergence as a true #1. So you are trading from strength here. Maybe Varlamov is worth a 1st at next year's TDL, maybe he's not... the market is strong now. We are offering one now, and trading him now nets you a 1st plus the ability to make use of that free cap space next year (when it matters to your competitiveness) instead of "wasting" it on your 1B goalie.

4) I agree it isn't the strongest market for starters this summer, but the backup market is just fine: Husso, Francouz, Forsberg, Vanacek, Holtby are all pretty decent options if all that you need is a 20 game guy to back up Sorokin taking the true #1 role.

5) The Oilers 1st will be mid-round, currently 17th.

6) Agree, there isn't a UFA similar to Mayfield that you can replace him with, but there would be plenty in the $3-4M range... that's why I'm suggesting you spend Varlamov's money upgrading on a D. But I would understand if Mayfield just isn't on the table at all.

7) In that case you should still consider the Varlamov part of the deal and use the extra money upgrade D or forward through UFA.

The Mayfield half of the deal honestly is a neutral/negative return Simply because the options available upcoming don’t improve the Islanders at all. If anything, it forces them to sign a guy like Thomas Hickey again and his time has passed.
As for the goaltender, it’s been stated by numerous times from Edmonton fans on here that Varlamov is only a backup but if you look at his season, he’s still performing quite a bit better then what a good number of teams have in net for starters/tandem goalies (including playoff teams). He’s playing as well as Bob even if his team isn’t winning games which tells you he can still handle a starting role in 50-55 games on a team.
The pieces incoming for the Islanders don’t off set what’s going out. The cap dumps are just to keep it cap neutral but both pieces have negative value honestly. That’s the issue with the deal. I can see other teams outbidding Edmonton with offers for both players separately compared to this deal as a whole.

 

[GreeningOil]

I feel the prices to take Barrie and Koskinen are fair but its probably unrealistic to have both in one deal.

Would Barrie + Bourgault + 1st + Samorukov + 2nd be enough value to get both Varlamov and Mayfield?

Remove pick from Isles side, remove Koskinen and upgrade Lavoie to Bourgault.

Koskinen is literally only owed money this year. Adding another 1st (Bourgault) and removing a key piece is waaay too much

 

[Snipesaitl]

Koskinen is literally only owed money this year. Adding another 1st (Bourgault) and removing a key piece is waaay too much

Mayfield and Varlamov should get 1 first round asset each so I considered the cost of including Barrie (2 years left) as well, though I don't think he is a pure cap dump like Koskinen is.

Anyway I think @TFHockey had the best offer in the thread, I'll add a second as well:

- 1st 2022
- 2nd 2023
- Bourgault
- Koskinen
- Turris

for

- Mayfield
- Varlamov

If Varlamov and Mayfield are dealt at the TDL this year I can't imagine NYI getting much more than that.

 

[Glorydays22]

I'm not the one who said Mayfield was worth 2 firsts, look at the names of the posters who say stuff before typing.

If you don't want to pay a first for Varly, then no biggie, we'll keep him. A second round pick simply isn't good enough to lose the tandem of Sorokin and Varlamov for next season. We need more value coming back to break up that combo.

Good luck in the playoffs with Smith and Koskinen lol

Exactly! Varly is worth a 1st, Mayfield is worth a 1st and more (look at Savard last year They got a 1st and a 3rd for a PURE RENTAL!) Mayfield who plays top 4 minutes is under contract for 1.45M!!!

Those offers are crap for both Varly and Mayfield together. If, IF the isles trade Mayfield he won't be packaged with anyone, that would be stupid!

So good luck in the playoffs with Smith and Koskinen

 

[OG Eberle]

Exactly! Varly is worth a 1st, Mayfield is worth a 1st and more (look at Savard last year They got a 1st and a 3rd for a PURE RENTAL!) Mayfield who plays top 4 minutes is under contract for 1.45M!!!

Those offers are crap for both Varly and Mayfield together. If, IF the isles trade Mayfield he won't be packaged with anyone, that would be stupid!

So good luck in the playoffs with Smith and Koskinen

Okay? Good luck not in the playoffs with Varly and Mayfield?

Weird comeback

 

[Glorydays22]

Okay? Good luck not in the playoffs with Varly and Mayfield?

Weird comeback

LOL, you can't be serious. You talk like your oilers have the playoffs locked up. lol How did you guys do the last 2 years? Hmm. So we had a bad year, shit happens. What's your excuse with the 2 best players in the league that you have to fight to even get into the playoffs and when you do you get bounced in the 1st round. Hmm, could be defense and goalie issues? That's what wins in the playoffs.

Oh by the way, great comeback...

 

[McShogun99]

Just make it simple.

Varlymov for Koskinen and a 1st.

 

[goal1228]

I hope Varly waives for Edmonton and its Koskinen and a pick for him.
Varlamov was really good for our Isles in the playoffs the last couple of years.

I can't see us trading Mayfield and his contract unless Lou makes other deals.

 

[OG Eberle]

LOL, you can't be serious. You talk like your oilers have the playoffs locked up. lol How did you guys do the last 2 years? Hmm. So we had a bad year, shit happens. What's your excuse with the 2 best players in the league that you have to fight to even get into the playoffs and when you do you get bounced in the 1st round. Hmm, could be defense and goalie issues? That's what wins in the playoffs.

Oh by the way, great comeback...

I litterally responded to the comment of "good luck with koskinen and smith in the playoffs". Sarcasm and fascetiousness seem to go right over you here.

All the other stuff you wrote seems to be coming from a much deeper place in your heart

 

[Glorydays22]

I litterally responded to the comment of "good luck with koskinen and smith in the playoffs". Sarcasm and fascetiousness seem to go right over you here.

All the other stuff you wrote seems to be coming from a much deeper place in your heart

Thank you.

 

[Dr Awesome]

Just make it simple.

Varlymov for Koskinen and a 1st.

What the discussion should really be about

 

[thadd]

How are people supposed to take this seriously?

Why don't you give us your 3rd rounder to take Barzal in exchange for future considerations?

Is that congruent with the logic being applied here?

 

[periferal]

Can't wait until Mayfield gets traded and everyone suddenly rushes to say how dumb the Islanders are for trading him and that they knew how good he was all along despite never having watched him play prior to the trade. I call it the Toews effect.

Get me on record that if Lou gets at least a "1st round pick in value" for Mayfield I'll accept that deal. If he trades him for less than that is horrible.

Odds are this team isn't going to be a contender again while Mayfield is in his prime/on his current deal, so his value is at his highest now.

I know Lou is going to keep him, give him a big extension sometime before July 1, 2023 and at that point we're just going to have to ride out what he has the way we're doing with Bailey now.