Confirmed Signing with Link: [EDM] Darnell Nurse signs extension with the Oilers (8 years, $9.25M AAV) PART II

[WetcoastOrca]

He took a discount. Everyone brings up the RFA vs UFA thing but the gap between the two has shortened significantly.

Look at Matthews and Marner coming off their ELC. Truth is if a RFA wants to be difficult and demand top dollars and hold out they can these days.

I agree with that. I think the RFA gap is overblown. That’s a great deal and an under payment for Makar. You get a Norris contender locked up for a lot of his prime. It allows Colorado to build a good team around him.
I think that’s an easier sell in Colorado given the state of the team as a top contender. It’s a tougher sell in Edmonton.

 

[ManofSteel55]

How's he do without McDavid on the ice?

Well when McDavid isn't on the ice we had AHL players on the ice. Everyone did worse.

 

[Bank Shot]

Well he's better than Nurse, so if Nurse is #1 Pelech obviously is as well.

Aren't you the guy who thought Gaudreau was the next big thing?

Lets just put your opinions over to the side.

We will consider them later. Promise..

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Aren't you the guy who thought Gaudreau was the next big thing?

Lets just put your opinions over to the side.

We will consider them later. Promise..

I was the one who predicted he'd be an elite offensive player before he even stepped foot in the league, while most people didn't even think he'd be an NHL player.

And it's not just my opinion that Pelech is the better defenseman. Pelech vs Nurse (Ignoring salary cap hit)

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Well when McDavid isn't on the ice we had AHL players on the ice. Everyone did worse.

RNH is an AHL player?

Nurse gets caved in without McDavid. A true #1D is supposed to be a difference maker.

Lol why does that always get brought up. You can't just take away his numbers with McDavid.

Because his numbers are in obviously inflated by playing with the best player in the world?

 

[ManofSteel55]

RNH is an AHL player?

Nurse gets caved in without McDavid. A true #1D is supposed to be a difference maker.



Because his numbers are in obviously inflated by playing with the best player in the world?

Nurse is a difference maker. A #1 D is also supposed to have more than one element to his game.

Your poll means nothing. Darnell Nurse is the most underrated player on HF, hands down. When Pelech plays 25+ minutes a game in every situation while producing at both ends of the ice we can talk about whether or not he is a number one defenseman.

Cue the false narrative about Nurse being bad defensively. This is the type of situation that shows the flaw of WAR charts.

 

[Mr Positive]

RNH is an AHL player?

Nurse gets caved in without McDavid. A true #1D is supposed to be a difference maker.



Because his numbers are in obviously inflated by playing with the best player in the world?

And Pelech's play isnt helped by being surrounded with great defensive depth, with coaching and the forwards are focused on defense?

The effect of McDavid is exaggerated. It does help Nurse, no doubt, but the other factor you carefully ignore is how bad the depth was after McDavid and Draisiaitl.

It seems like you are aware of these effects but are just choosing to pick whatever lets you bash Nurse the best

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Nurse is a difference maker. A #1 D is also supposed to have more than one element to his game.

Your poll means nothing. Darnell Nurse is the most underrated player on HF, hands down. When Pelech plays 25+ minutes a game in every situation while producing at both ends of the ice we can talk about whether or not he is a number one defenseman.

Cue the false narrative about Nurse being bad defensively. This is the type of situation that shows the flaw of WAR charts.

If Pelech was on such a terrible team, he'd play 25+ nights too.

He's the best defenseman on the best defensive team in the league.

If Nurse was a true difference maker, he wouldn't get caved without McDavid. Over the last 2 years, he's +17 with McDavid at 5v5, but -24 without McDavid.

 

[TS Quint]

He took a discount. Everyone brings up the RFA vs UFA thing but the gap between the two has shortened significantly.

Look at Matthews and Marner coming off their ELC. Truth is if a RFA wants to be difficult and demand top dollars and hold out they can these days.

And the Leafs are a laughing stock for those contracts.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

And Pelech's play isnt helped by being surrounded with great defensive depth, with coaching and the forwards are focused on defense?

The effect of McDavid is exaggerated. It does help Nurse, no doubt, but the other factor you carefully ignore is how bad the depth was after McDavid and Draisiaitl.

It seems like you are aware of these effects but are just choosing to pick whatever lets you bash Nurse the best

McDavid and Draisaitl are different makers. Nurse is not, which is why he's unable to tilt the ice without those guys.

You act like RNH, Yamamoto, Kassian, Puljujarvi etc are AHL players. They might not be elite first line players, but they are more or less middle 6 players.

 

[Mr Positive]

McDavid and Draisaitl are different makers. Nurse is not, which is why he's unable to tilt the ice without those guys.

You act like RNH, Yamamoto, Kassian, Puljujarvi etc are AHL players. They might not be elite first line players, but they are more or less middle 6 players.

Those players you mention are often also on the ice with McDavid and Draisaitl on the ice. When Drai and McDavid are together, that means RNH is centering the 2nd line, and we never could get a good combo to get that to work. And of course the bottom six was mostly bargain bin fodder.

I wouldnt be surprised to see the Jekyll and Hyde quality of Nurse's stats end with the improvements in the Oilers' forward depth.

Ultimaltey whoever actually watches Nurse knows hes the real deal. Hes overpaid but he had top end raw tools and hes been improving every year. Hes not some plug that's been blessed to be attached to McDavid

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Those players you mention are often also on the ice with McDavid and Draisaitl on the ice. When Drai and McDavid are together, that means RNH is centering the 2nd line, and we never could get a good combo to get that to work. And of course the bottom six was mostly bargain bin fodder.

I wouldnt be surprised to see the Jekyll and Hyde quality of Nurse's stats end with the improvements in the Oilers' forward depth.

Ultimaltey whoever actually watches Nurse knows hes the real deal. Hes overpaid but he had top end raw tools and hes been improving every year. Hes not some plug that's been blessed to be attached to McDavid

He's not a plug, I think he's a pretty good defenseman, ideally playing as a #2/#3 but has the athleticism to sub in as a #1. But he's just not reliable enough defensively for me, kinda like Dougie Hamilton (who is also painfully overpaid).

This all started because someone said the price for a #1 was $9M and I pointed to Adam Pelech's contract.

 

[tkb81]

Remember the good ol days when you used to have to win something to get the big contracts

 

[bobbythebrain]

If Pelech was on such a terrible team, he'd play 25+ nights too.

He's the best defenseman on the best defensive team in the league.

If Nurse was a true difference maker, he wouldn't get caved without McDavid. Over the last 2 years, he's +17 with McDavid at 5v5, but -24 without McDavid.

Best defensive team in the league lololol. Hedman, Mcdonaugh, Sergachev and Cernak say hi

 

[ManofSteel55]

If Pelech was on such a terrible team, he'd play 25+ nights too.

He's the best defenseman on the best defensive team in the league.

If Nurse was a true difference maker, he wouldn't get caved without McDavid. Over the last 2 years, he's +17 with McDavid at 5v5, but -24 without McDavid.

That's a cop out. #1 defensemen can play 25 minutes a night. Sorry but if Pelech was so dominant he would be on the ice more. He is a defensive specialist. A great one, and that is important, but a pure defensive specialist isn't a #1 defenseman any more than a pure offensive specialist like Tyson Barrie is. They have to play both ways.

You are talking in circles. If course he is -24 when playing with the bottom six that Edmonton has had to play with for the past few years. Even the best players have their defensive stats take a dive when playing with guys who aren't NHL caliber players. All these defensive stats you ar trotting out only show one thing. That Pelech plays on a far superior defensive team to Nurse.

And what's with the "caved in" metaphor. If there is any phrase that makes me start taking a poster less seriously, its seeing that cliche marched out as if it is evidence of anything.

I will sum up my opinion of your posts. You are mostly right about Pelech. He is a dominant shut down defenseman. A great situational guy. But he doesn't have the offense to be a number one. He hasn't shown it yet anyway. There's nothing wrong with that. Your biggest issue is thinking that analytics tell a good story of defensemen. Its apparent you didn't watch the Oilers this year. That's not a problem in itself, but stop acting like you are an expert when you haven't watched Nurse play this year.

One final question. If Pelech is a number 1, why didn't he want #1 defenseman money? Seems to me that even Pelech doesn't think he is a #1 defenseman. If he did, he wouldn't have left 3+ million per year on the table.

 

[bobbythebrain]

You know you're on the mains when someone is calling Pelech a #1 dman

 

[TS Quint]

Best defensive team in the league lololol. Hedman, Mcdonaugh, Sergachev and Cernak say hi

As a community, can we just all agree that “_______ say hi” is about the douchiest, over repeated phase on the board and should be edited like a curse word to save the poster the embarrassment?

 

[WetcoastOrca]

As a community, can we just all agree that “_______ say hi” is about the douchiest, over repeated phase on the board and should be edited like a curse word to save the poster the embarrassment?

It’s right up there with ‘watch the games’ (said anyone has the time to watch all 82 games for every single team) and ‘tell me that you’ve never seen X play without telling me that you’ve never seen X play’.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Best defensive team in the league lololol. Hedman, Mcdonaugh, Sergachev and Cernak say hi

Islanders were 2nd in the league in goals against playing in the toughest division. Tampa allowed more goals in a weaker division with the best goalie in the league.

 

[ToDavid]

Cue the false narrative about Nurse being bad defensively. This is the type of situation that shows the flaw of WAR charts.

Is this "type of situation" the type of situation where you want to believe a player is good at something when the stats say otherwise?

 

[majormajor]

Best defensive team in the league lololol. Hedman, Mcdonaugh, Sergachev and Cernak say hi

The Tampa D group was actually very porous this last regular season. Several guys had off years including Hedman.

 

[Brownies]

‘tell me that you’ve never seen X play without telling me that you’ve never seen X play’.

Best way to piss me off.

 

[Cup or Bust]

As a community, can we just all agree that “_______ say hi” is about the douchiest, over repeated phase on the board and should be edited like a curse word to save the poster the embarrassment?

Can we please add "salty" and "narrative" to the list as well?

 

[zar]

If Pelech was on such a terrible team, he'd play 25+ nights too.

He's the best defenseman on the best defensive team in the league.

If Nurse was a true difference maker, he wouldn't get caved without McDavid. Over the last 2 years, he's +17 with McDavid at 5v5, but -24 without McDavid.

While I disagree with you regarding Nurse vs. Pelech, you are usually a respectful poster so I will politely point out the error in your claim... unless I am mistaken in what you were saying

McDavid/ Nurse with/without 2019-2021

Nurse (5v5)
w/McDavid -- +17
w/o McDavid -- -9
To be fair, you need to consider a significant factor for the difference in the results... Offensive Zone FO%, 63.18% vs. 41.46% respectively.

McDavid (5v5)
w/Nurse -- +17
w/o Nurse -- +3

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

While I disagree with you regarding Nurse vs. Pelech, you are usually a respectful poster so I will politely point out the error in your claim... unless I am mistaken in what you were saying

McDavid/ Nurse with/without 2019-2021

Nurse (5v5)
w/McDavid -- +17
w/o McDavid -- -9
To be fair, you need to consider a significant factor for the difference in the results... Offensive Zone FO%, 63.18% vs. 41.46% respectively.

McDavid (5v5)
w/Nurse -- +17
w/o Nurse -- +3

Sorry, was a typo, was supposed to be 3 years but hit the 2 on my device. And looking at it again it's -22 not -24 because my brain is broken from being on vacation with kid's all week.