Proposal: Edm-Col-Ana

[mytduxfan*]

Leaves out games played another stellar post

Has Pouliot ever had more then 36 pts in one season?

 

[Exit Dose]

Now, where I do see the concern is with Pouliot's injury record of recent. He has missed too many games, we know that, its hurt us tremendously when he hasn't been healthy, and to put it bluntly, a guy who is on the IR has no value to the team. So I get that concern, as I think most Oilers fans would, including VainGretzky. But your claim that when healthy, Benoit Pouliot is not a 2nd line winger has been shown false.

That we are trading Cam Fowler to get Pouliot as the main roster piece in return is a bigger area of concern than his injury history, though his injury history is also a big red flag.

 

[Homesick]

EDM: T. Barrie
COL: C. Fowler + G. Reinhart
ANA: EDM 2017 1st (top 5 protected, '18 1st if top 5) + B. Pouliot (25% retained, 3M cap)

No protection. This team doesnt deserve a top 5 pick for a decade

 

[CupofOil]

Comparing a guy who played 55 games to players that played 82 are we? Do you even know how to use statistics?

Try comparing Pouliot when he was playing 3rd line minutes to when he's been given 2nd line minutes. His best P/60s in full seasons were when he played less minutes as a 3rd liner in MTL, BOS and TB. His number is inflated this year and last year because he didn't play the whole season. Sample size is important.

He had 19 goals in 58 games 2 seasons ago and 14 goals in 55 games last season, in what world is that 3rd line production? Inflated by playing less games? That makes no sense. It's not like Maroon where he scored 8 goals in 16 games with the Oilers and declaring Maroon as a top line player. This is a 113 game sample size in which he scored 33 goals. That's solid 2nd line production.

However, I can understand why the Ducks don't want Pouliot as a centerpiece for Fowler.

 

[VainGretzky]

Has Pouliot ever had more then 36 pts in one season?

Last season 24th in NHL for ppg left wingers low end 1st liner high end 2nd liner production Season before 33 in ppg nhl for lw production high end 2nd liner because he was injured does not take away how he is producing when he is playing. The whole point of the original post was he was producing as a 2nd line winger since becoming a Oiler . You jump in and say his p60 says not when it shows exact opposite. Then you spend the next 5 posts moving goal posts and adding strawman to defend a original post you were wrong on . So here is the facts moving on.

 

[dracom]

Last season 24th in NHL for ppg left wingers low end 1st liner high end 2nd liner production Season before 33 in ppg nhl for lw production high end 2nd liner because he was injured does not take away how he is producing when he is playing. The whole point of the original post was he was producing as a 2nd line winger since becoming a Oiler . You jump in and say his p60 says not when it shows exact opposite. Then you spend the next 5 posts moving goal posts and adding strawman to defend a original post you were wrong on . So here is the facts moving on.

Until Pouliot actually produces like a 2nd liner, he's a injury prone 3rd liner. PPG means nothing when he's getting hurt all the time and getting older.

 

[mytduxfan*]

Last season 24th in NHL for ppg left wingers low end 1st liner high end 2nd liner production Season before 33 in ppg nhl for lw production high end 2nd liner because he was injured does not take away how he is producing when he is playing. The whole point of the original post was he was producing as a 2nd line winger since becoming a Oiler . You jump in and say his p60 says not when it shows exact opposite. Then you spend the next 5 posts moving goal posts and adding strawman to defend a original post you were wrong on . So here is the facts moving on.

I ask you "has Pouliot ever had more then 36 pts in one season?" and you respond by not answering the question and then say this. Oh, the irony.

We're done here. He's not a 2nd line player. EDM fans are the only ones disputing this fact. He's comparable to Dale Weise. Is Dale Weise a 2nd line W? No, of course not. However, I'm sure if he played for EDM, you might argue that he is.

 

[go4hockey]

EDM: T. Barrie
COL: C. Fowler + G. Reinhart
ANA: EDM 2017 1st (top 5 protected, '18 1st if top 5) + B. Pouliot (25% retained, 3M cap)

Why in the world would ANA do this? That's right they wouldn't touch this and if they even thought about it there would be no protection of the pick, the risk would fall on the team getting the best of this deal.

 

[go4hockey]

So Avs trade a great Dman for 2 high risk bad ones?!?!

You guys have realized Fowler isn't any good by now right?

Watch him play instead of trying to figure what kind of player he is by staring at the stats. Your miles off with your last line.

 

[VainGretzky]

I ask you "has Pouliot ever had more then 36 pts in one season?" and you respond by not answering the question and then say this. Oh, the irony.

We're done here. He's not a 2nd line player. EDM fans are the only ones disputing this fact. He's comparable to Dale Weise. Is Dale Weise a 2nd line W? No, of course not. However, I'm sure if he played for EDM, you might argue that he is.

Well the 110 game large sample size last 2 seasons shows he produced at a 2nd line rate none of your laughing faces changes this. and no he has not does this mean 36 points is his peak over 82 games lol keep trying man . Him missing games is what your clinging to like he would only ever get 36 points over a full season becuse the last 25 games if he played he would score no points. Anyways done arguing with a strawman that cherry picks what he wants. And dismisses facts k see ya. .

 

[mytduxfan*]

Well the 110 game large sample size last 2 seasons shows he produced at a 2nd line rate none of your laughing faces changes this. and no he has not does this mean 36 points is his peak over 82 games lol keep trying man . Him missing games is what your clinging to like he would only ever get 36 points over a full season becuse the last 25 games if he played he would score no points. Anyways done sruing with a strawman that cherry picks what he wants. And dismisses facts k see ya. .

Based on the evidence. Yes. He's only capable of 36 points until he proves otherwise. Pretty simple stuff really.

 

[Avs44]

Based on the evidence. Yes. He's only capable of 36 points until he proves otherwise. Pretty simple stuff really.

Didn't you hear? Points per 60 minutes and PPG average is what really matters. I mean, did you know Jagr had a better points per 60 minutes than Patrick Kane last year?


Here's the thing...I'd actually buy into these projections of Pouliot's numbers IF he had actually displayed that capability in his past. But the fact is that his career high at age 30 is 36 points, so trying to now project him to be a 45-50 point top 6 forward, and pretending that is what he is, seems rather disingenuous. Furthermore, his three most played with line mates last year? Eberle, McDavid, RNH. Yeah...he's a top six winger in the same sense that Jamie McGinn was a legitimate top six winger for the Avs when he played on the same line as O'Reilly and Duchene. He's a good third line forward who, like a McGinn type, is capable of being a tweener in the top six with good linemates, serving as the third best player on the line. These titles he's being given that aren't based off of actual points, and ceilings he's been granted even though he's never actually hit them, purely because his PPG average dictates he could have hit that level at a few points in his nine year career seems rather ridiculous.

 

[mytduxfan*]

Didn't you hear? Points per 60 minutes and PPG average is what really matters. I mean, did you know Jagr had a better points per 60 minutes than Patrick Kane last year?

Here's the thing...I'd actually buy into these projections of Pouliot's numbers IF he had actually displayed that capability in his past. But the fact is that his career high at age 30 is 36 points, so trying to now project him to be a 45-50 point top 6 forward, and pretending that is what he is, seems rather disingenuous. Furthermore, his three most played with line mates last year? Eberle, McDavid, RNH. Yeah...he's a top six winger in the same sense that Jamie McGinn was a legitimate top six winger for the Avs when he played on the same line as O'Reilly and Duchene. He's a good third line forward who, like a McGinn type, is capable of being a tweener in the top six with good linemates, serving as the third best player on the line. These titles he's being given that aren't based off of actual points, and ceilings he's been granted even though he's never actually hit them, purely because his PPG average dictates he could have hit that level at a few points in his nine year career seems rather ridiculous.

I just love this idea that 2nd line wingers are just players that meet a certain cut-off point on the years highest pts list. Like "he's top 60 in scoring amongst LWs and there are 60 top 6 LWs in the league, so he must be a 2nd line winger". That's just not how it works. Just like the league doesn't have enough 1st line players to go around, it also doesn't have enough 2nd line players to go around either.

McGinn, Weise are great comparables for Pouliot. Good 3rd liners who can plug in as a 2nd liner in a pinch. However, you'd want none of them on your 2nd line permanently. You wanna know what the worst thing about Pouliot is though? He's paid more then all of those guys and by quite a bit actually.

 

[HanSolo]

I listed multiple ones and age was one of them as well as career high in production and playoff production and also that he has played less then 60 games in each of the last two seasons. Not trading a defenseman who is that age for a forward that age we need younger forward coming back and especially one with better offensive numbers then our defenseman.



Defenseman tend to be better at a older age compared to forwards. A forward prime years is not after turning 30. Forwards in their prime in the mid 20's.



Fowler isn't any good

How is that different from what I said?

 

[FlipFlopPavelski]

you must be an Oilers fan. Terrible trade for Anaheim and Colorado won't accept this. but hey it's not gay if it's a three-way [trade proposal]

 

[Mubiki]

Why is the pick protected? It's time for Edmonton to put on their big boy pants.

 

[AslanRH]

Well the 110 game large sample size last 2 seasons shows he produced at a 2nd line rate none of your laughing faces changes this. and no he has not does this mean 36 points is his peak over 82 games lol keep trying man . Him missing games is what your clinging to like he would only ever get 36 points over a full season becuse the last 25 games if he played he would score no points. Anyways done arguing with a strawman that cherry picks what he wants. And dismisses facts k see ya. .

Well, then perhaps it is fair to say he's a second line player for 2/3 of a season. If your team doesn't really need him for that other 1/3, then he probably has really good value

 

[ManofSteel55]

I know it wasn't a direct comparison, but that is awful. Crosby's production is one of the highest in the league. He's won the Hart and Art Ross award twice. Even if you just judge Crosby on his scoring, he is without question a 1st line C and an elite talent. Suggesting that Pouliot should be considered as 2nd line winger the same way that Crosby is considered a 1st line C is ridiculous. Pouliot has never had more then 36 points. That's awful production for a 2nd line W. Just because he plays on your 2nd line does not make him a 2nd line winger.

The only people disputing my belief that Pouliot isn't a 2nd line player are EDM fans. It's fine. You have a vested interest in him being a 2nd liner. He's not, but whatever. He's like Dale Weise territory. You know, Dale Weise, that well known 2nd line winger.

I'm done. I really don't give a **** about Pouliot. We don't want him. Stop mentioning him trades with ANA.

Whoosh! Missed the point completely.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Until Pouliot actually produces like a 2nd liner, he's a injury prone 3rd liner. PPG means nothing when he's getting hurt all the time and getting older.

Considering that when in the lineup he does produce like a 2nd liner, I think its more accurate to call him an injury prone 2nd liner.

 

[liquiduck]

I'd be all for Pouliot if the asset was Despres and not Fowler.

How about just

Ana: Pouliot 500k retained

Edm: Despres + 4th rounder

 

[dracom]

Considering that when in the lineup he does produce like a 2nd liner, I think its more accurate to call him an injury prone 2nd liner.

Except he hasn't, ever. PPG is nice when looking at stats, but it doesn't mean anything when said player can't surpass 40 points. He has not produced as a 2nd liner, even when he was healthy and had a season where he played a majority of the season.

Let us know when Pouliot actually produces (read, not hypothetical PPG, but actually puts up points) then you can discuss him being an injury prone 2nd liner; until then he's a injury prone 3rd liner.

 

[liquiduck]

Considering that when in the lineup he does produce like a 2nd liner, I think its more accurate to call him an injury prone 2nd liner.

I actually really like Pouliot as a player, but I also have a hard time calling someone who's never touched 40pts in a season a second liner.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Except he hasn't, ever. PPG is nice when looking at stats, but it doesn't mean anything when said player can't surpass 40 points. He has not produced as a 2nd liner, even when he was healthy and had a season where he played a majority of the season.

Let us know when Pouliot actually produces (read, not hypothetical PPG, but actually puts up points) then you can discuss him being an injury prone 2nd liner; until then he's a injury prone 3rd liner.

Crosby had 37 points in 11/12. I guess he must have been an injury prone 3rd liner that season, right? I mean, he was over 1.5 ppg that season, but ppg doesn't matter when a player can't surpass 40 points.

 

[ManofSteel55]

I actually really like Pouliot as a player, but I also have a hard time calling someone who's never touched 40pts in a season a second liner.

I'm perfectly fine with calling him a 3rd liner (or even 4th liner at times) in his career before he came to Edmonton. But the facts are that he has put up 2nd line numbers while healthy since day one as an Oiler. When in the lineup, he has been a 2nd line player. And a good one at that. Being injured doesn't take a guy from being a 2nd line player to a 3rd line player.

 

[dracom]

Crosby had 37 points in 11/12. I guess he must have been an injury prone 3rd liner that season, right? I mean, he was over 1.5 ppg that season, but ppg doesn't matter when a player can't surpass 40 points.

Yet Crosby had proven he was a elite 1st liner already, one bad season because of injury doesn't take that away. Pouliot has never produced more than 40 points in his whole career, even when he was healthy. Nice try though.