Confirmed with Link: [EDM/BUF] McLeod + Tullio for Matt Savoie

[jesusbuiltmyhotrod]

Ridiculous. Mcleod was usable, and flexible, in many ways and in usage, which is most indication where Coaches see players. Only 6 forwards on this whole club got more Toi/Game than McLeod and thats including Henrique who just got here at TDL. Factor in actual toi and Mcleod had 6th most minutes.

"useless offensively" had 16 Goals. more than the vast majority of our forwards. He had more goals than Browy, Perry and Janmark put together. Thats just a fact.

McLeod was basically our 7th best forward in every metric.

Ryan McLeod was good at a lot of things. But not the dead sexy things that fans tend to go for. just a nuts and bolts solid player that even produces when put up in the lineup. Good teams have players like this, and tend to keep players like this.

sUCH A BAD. BAD TAKE , RIDICULOUS..AMAZING TRADE FOR THE oILERS...THE oILERS DO NOT NED MCCLEOD LOL

 

[TheNumber4]

Think his organization vision is much more sophisticated than a rolodex. He’s shown and speaks to empowering a collaborative team. Backed it up with Pracey ‘we need to draft Sam O’Reilly. He is setting the framework and hiring to create a model hockey management organization. Diesn’t neef to be mired in operations.

I agree with everything you said. But yeh don't underestimate the rolodex and relationships. Sometimes you need some favors.

 

[jesusbuiltmyhotrod]

That goal you're referring to was more Ryan Suter taking out his own goalie lol. What did Brown and Janmark do over McLeod? Well for starters they didn't get outscored 12-4 at 5 on 5.

An all time bad post by Drivesaitl...lol..He should be embarassed..totally out to lunch

 

[McFlyingV]

An all time bad post by Drivesaitl...lol..He should be embarassed..totally out to lunch

Think he just gets attached to certain players, and don't get me wrong there's a lot to like about McLeod's game, but there's also a lot to not like especially in the playoffs.

Jeff Jackson dumped his poor playoff performers and kept his good ones. I like when managers are proactive like this instead of just hoping players will improve when they don't give you any reason to believe they will. Foegele has been inconsistent his entire time in Edmonton and McLeod has been too soft and to perimeter his entire career. Hoping that will change is something old managers on this team would do and it's why this team has failed to take the next step for so long.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Ridiculous. Mcleod was usable, and flexible, in many ways and in usage, which is most indication where Coaches see players. Only 6 forwards on this whole club got more Toi/Game than McLeod and thats including Henrique who just got here at TDL. Factor in actual toi and Mcleod had 6th most minutes.

"useless offensively" had 16 Goals. more than the vast majority of our forwards. He had more goals than Browy, Perry and Janmark put together. Thats just a fact.

McLeod was basically our 7th best forward in every metric.

Ryan McLeod was good at a lot of things. But not the dead sexy things that fans tend to go for. just a nuts and bolts solid player that even produces when put up in the lineup. Good teams have players like this, and tend to keep players like this.

I think the part you ignored is that I said useless offensively away from Draisaitl. When he was used on the third line he was pacing for 18 points on a season. Thats 4th line numbers.

During the playoffs McLeod McLeod yes was the 7th most used skater but his minutes and usage dropped and dropped and dropped as the playoffs went on. He proved he isn’t a guy that can run or drive a line but can provide adequate defensive minutes and PK time.

But let me ask you this, where does he fit now? As a winger does he play above Nuge, Hyman, Kane, Skinner, Arvidsson? Arguably Holloway? Does he play center above McDavid,Draisaitl Henrique?
So at best he is our 9th best forward playing 3rd line minutes…but he has shown that with 3rd line minutes and linemates he produced at a 4th line level.
And in the playoffs the guy with the 7th most toi per game for forwards was 11th in production. This is a player that 3 playoffs in a row brought next to nothing offensively.
Penalty kill wise he was good but Janmark, Brown and others are just as good if not better. So he didn’t have a role here anymore. Unless you think the guy who is scared of his own shadow can handle constant 4th line minutes. I ask you, where does he play?

Yes you tend to keep guys like McLeod but he didn’t have a role here anymore.

TLDR: He isn’t better than a single one of our top 6 guys, he isn’t one of our top 3 centers, he has a history of only producing really in the top 6 (and not well) and although he has size and speed I think Yamamoto had more of a physical presence. Not a bad player but he made too much to be a 4th liner and his role was taken over by quite a few players. If the coach liked him a ton he would still be here.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Think he just gets attached to certain players, and don't get me wrong there's a lot to like about McLeod's game, but there's also a lot to not like especially in the playoffs.

Jeff Jackson dumped his poor playoff performers and kept his good ones. I like when managers are proactive like this instead of just hoping players will improve when they don't give you any reason to believe they will. Foegele has been inconsistent his entire time in Edmonton and McLeod has been too soft and to perimeter his entire career. Hoping that will change is something old managers on this team would do and it's why this team has failed to take the next step for so long.

Thanks, and yes. McLeod was a player I've always liked from the start. I don't know whats weird about fans liking certain players. Its part of fandom imo. To me its part of relating to certain players and even who they seem to be.

Like I said earlier I'm not as much into futures trades. I get the ELC reasoning and all that, really I do. I don't get that Savoie is any can't miss or anything like that. In order for the club to benefit from ELC Savoie has to make the lineup. A much harder lineup to crack than Buffalo. I guess we'll see how it plays out. In the meantime I've lost another favorite player and one I've started threads on. I rarely start any threads. I did on McLeod. Guy was a throwback to me that reminded me of other players and other times.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I don't think this is giving up on McLeod at all. If you give up on a guy you flip him for a 3rd. The fact is they had to move someone and that someone was pretty much going to be one of Kane, Ceci, Kulak or McLeod. The problem with moving a defender is that you then have to replace him and that presented its own challenges. Kane is probably not going to finish his contract in Edmonton but right now moving him may have meant little in return.

I liked McLeod probably more than most here. But Henrique staying meant that McLeod's role was probably going to be as a #4C/utility winger. And I am afraid that McLeod was very likely to price himself out of a spot. With pending arbitration at the end of his deal he would have had the team in a tough spot and teams don't typically give up a lot for guys who could get more in arbitration than their potential roles allow. If the opportunity to move him would have been for say a 2nd rounder, I'd have had more issue with this. But the return here is not something many of us expected. Savoie is a high end talent who plays an aggressive game. The big knock on him is that he is small. And yes he has had injuries. But he is also on a cheap deal for three more years which is very big. This deal could be a massive win for the Oilers, or it could go bust. But the odds favour the former over the latter given that they may well have lost McLeod next offseason anyway for a lesser return.

Thanks for the reasonable reply. The bolded is fair point.

I've also considered that Henrique makes McLeod more redundant. Just need more time to think about it I guess and I took a couple weeks off from even thinking about hockey. Kind of wanted to flush hockey from my mind for awhile. Seasons are long so I want to detach from it this offseason. Be fresher for the next.

Just a question but how do other clubs seem to retain their role players and ones they've had or drafted? Seems like the Oilers always end up losing these. The list of Cogliano's we've lost is kind of long. Most of our role players are old and and not in prime. Mcleod was the only one we had that was nearing prime, and that we drafted. Some other club could reap benefit of the years we put into him. Or not I guess.

 

[bellagiobob]

An all time bad post by Drivesaitl...lol..He should be embarassed..totally out to lunch

And here I thought his post chastising fans for cheering when Brown scored his first goal of the year was bad. Funny how Brown fondly remembers those cheers and mentions it all the time, and was a reason he came to come back here at a discount. Who knew.

 

[TheNumber4]

I don't understand the Buffalo prospects rankings. How is Jiri Kulich and Noah Ostlund in Savoie's stratosphere? Just on the surface and on paper, Savoie should be way ahead of these guys.

 

[McFlyingV]

Thanks, and yes. McLeod was a player I've always liked from the start. I don't know whats weird about fans liking certain players. Its part of fandom imo. To me its part of relating to certain players and even who they seem to be.

Like I said earlier I'm not as much into futures trades. I get the ELC reasoning and all that, really I do. I don't get that Savoie is any can't miss or anything like that. In order for the club to benefit from ELC Savoie has to make the lineup. A much harder lineup to crack than Buffalo. I guess we'll see how it plays out. In the meantime I've lost another favorite player and one I've started threads on. I rarely start any threads. I did on McLeod. Guy was a throwback to me that reminded me of other players and other times.

I actually think this roster is built really well to integrate a guy like Savoie with a veteran centre on a low responsibility scoring line. To me that is Nuge, and you can give him a Kane so he doesn't get pushed around.

Tampa did a similar thing with Killorn+Palat with another highly skilled and undersized 20 year old WHLer Brayden Point, and it work out well for them.

 

[Drivesaitl]

That goal you're referring to was more Ryan Suter taking out his own goalie lol. What did Brown and Janmark do over McLeod? Well for starters they didn't get outscored 12-4 at 5 on 5.

A lot of this is short sample circumstantial. McLeod is historically a low event low GA player. He's generally responsible and solid 200ft. No accident he's one of our better and most used pk players as well as being by far the most utilized player in our bottomsix. just saying.

Oh well, time to say goodbye to another player. Trouble for us older fans is we've done that hundreds of times before. That said there were a lot of Omarks I enjoyed saying goodbyes to. haha

 

[McFlyingV]

A lot of this is short sample circumstantial. McLeod is historically a low event low GA player. He's generally responsible and solid 200ft. No accident he's one of our better and most used pk players as well as being by far the most utilized player in our bottomsix. just saying.

Oh well, time to say goodbye to another player. Trouble for us older fans is we've done that hundreds of times before. That said there were a lot of Omarks I enjoyed saying goodbyes to. haha

Partially maybe, but McLeod's game imo was evidently exposed these playoffs in ways that it hadn't been in previous years and that's because the Oilers faced a lot of heavy forechecking teams. McLeod is an excellent penalty killer because he can use his speed to get in lanes and he doesn't have to grind or knock guys off pucks. The problem is with heavy forechecking and cycle teams he struggles at 5 on 5 because he doesn't have an answer to stop their cycle once it starts. He's great at playing defence through the neutral zone, but once pucks are dumped in or cycle games are established he struggles immensely as the centre who needs to win physical battles down low.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I actually think this roster is built really well to integrate a guy like Savoie with a veteran centre on a low responsibility scoring line. To me that is Nuge, and you can give him a Kane so he doesn't get pushed around.

Tampa did a similar thing with Killorn+Palat with another highly skilled and undersized 20 year old WHLer Brayden Point, and it work out well for them.

Who is our Killorn and Palat?

Those were strong EV players in prime.

Who would you have Savoie with if he makes the show? Henrique seems obvious for sheltering but he's older and not in prime. Seems to work better with vets as well. Not sure yet.

Nuge has been better arguably as a winger, and I'm not sure we're going to go back to him as Center. Maybe with Skinner and Arviddson here that shakes out. Sorry I'm catching up to this stuff. I'm just out of the gate getting up to speed on some of the moves/additions.

 

[TheNumber4]

A lot of this is short sample circumstantial. McLeod is historically a low event low GA player. He's generally responsible and solid 200ft. No accident he's one of our better and most used pk players as well as being by far the most utilized player in our bottomsix. just saying.

Oh well, time to say goodbye to another player. Trouble for us older fans is we've done that hundreds of times before. That said there were a lot of Omarks I enjoyed saying goodbyes to. haha

I liked Clouder too Drive. I think he's being underrated. But we keep entering the playoffs with question marks. Foegele was always one. Mcleod became one. With Henrique being much more proven in a 3C role, we have to take that and run. We also need to provide Drai with real top 6 wingers, not these hopefuls like Foegele/Mcleod in that role, square peg round hole. With Skinner/Arvie/Henrique we have more appropriate players in their roles. Looks like Mcleod pretty much had to go to make that happen, so in that sense moving on becomes easier.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Partially maybe, but McLeod's game imo was evidently exposed these playoffs in ways that it hadn't been in previous years and that's because the Oilers faced a lot of heavy forechecking teams. McLeod is an excellent penalty killer because he can use his speed to get in lanes and he doesn't have to grind or knock guys off pucks. The problem is with heavy forechecking and cycle teams he struggles at 5 on 5 because he doesn't have an answer to stop their cycle once it starts. He's great at playing defence through the neutral zone, but once pucks are dumped in or cycle games are established he struggles immensely as the centre who needs to win physical battles down low.

Thats all fair. But as far as stopping cycle or not basically any player thats exposed a lot to the Nurse/Ceci pairing seemed to struggle in that regard. McLeod for his age is very good at TKA so its not like he's incapable. He makes a lot of deft plays for his age, like Nuge did at same age. Nuge has become more predatory with age but both anticipate reasonably well.

I think Mcleod is better as a Winger for his build out. But I can see the org has moved a different way with fullscale Vet wingers. Good and bad with that. Team could really lack pace now.

 

[FlameChampion]

I liked Clouder too Drive. I think he's being underrated. But we keep entering the playoffs with question marks. Foegele was always one. Mcleod became one. With Henrique being much more proven in a 3C role, we have to take that and run. We also need to provide Drai with real top 6 wingers, not these hopefuls like Foegele/Mcleod in that role, square peg round hole. With Skinner/Arvie/Henrique we have more appropriate players in their roles. Looks like Mcleod pretty much had to go to make that happen, so in that sense moving on becomes easier.

I agree with a lot of your post. But I don’t think McLeod had to go. Similar to what Courier said, I don’t think the Oilers gave up on the player. Jackson just took value when presented with it.

One thing I will say with McLeod is that I do think his next contract would of been problematic for the Oilers. I kind of see it going the same way Puljujarvi/Yamamoto did. They are fine players when their salary is 1-2m but once you they start making 3+ they don’t have value on the Oilers. And the Oilers will be paying McDavid/Draisaitl/Bouchard a lot in the next year or two.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I liked Clouder too Drive. I think he's being underrated. But we keep entering the playoffs with question marks. Foegele was always one. Mcleod became one. With Henrique being much more proven in a 3C role, we have to take that and run. We also need to provide Drai with real top 6 wingers, not these hopefuls like Foegele/Mcleod in that role, square peg round hole. With Skinner/Arvie/Henrique we have more appropriate players in their roles. Looks like Mcleod pretty much had to go to make that happen, so in that sense moving on becomes easier.

Well heres a thing. Why even start the Foegele/McLeod/Yamanothing/Pulju/Reider/kahun/Khaira etc etc arc and have Drai spend a decade here without proper or ideal linemates and now give him what he's needed all along when he's just getting past prime?

I dunno. maybe the org finally doing it to entice Drai to stick around? Man, nobody is more frustrated than me at Drai winger status the last decade.

Even at that we bring in Skinner who would be far from ideal with Drai ( just count the GA) and Arviddson who is well past prime and having a lot of injury trouble. Arvie is not the player he was even two years ago.

On the Drai portfolio the Oilers are a decade late and now filling with older wingers. Seem to be always behind in this regard.

Gonna be a lot of 100yr old lines on this club.

 

[TheNumber4]

I agree with a lot of your post. But I don’t think McLeod had to go. Similar to what Courier said, I don’t think the Oilers gave up on the player. Jackson just took value when presented with it.

One thing I will say with McLeod is that I do think his next contract will be problematic for the Oilers. I kind of see it going the same way Puljujarvi/Yamamoto did. They are fine players when their salary is 1-2m but once you they start making 3+ they don’t have value on the Oilers. And the Oilers will be paying McDavid/Draisaitl/Bouchard a lot in the next year or two.

I guess we will find out on that front as this off-season proceeds. Maybe there's another cap saving move that will be/can be made. But it seems at this point, Mcleod out helped the cap crunch we were in. Then again it's ONLY 2M, so there likely could have been other moves to make that happen.

Yes, long term planning, and with Henrique here for 2 years, Mcleods next contract is where it really hurts. And trading him at that point with arbitration looming is never easy to get value. So doing it now makes more sense then later.

 

[McFlyingV]

Who is our Killorn and Palat?

Those were strong EV players in prime.

Who would you have Savoie with if he makes the show? Henrique seems obvious for sheltering but he's older and not in prime. Seems to work better with vets as well. Not sure yet.

Nuge has been better arguably as a winger, and I'm not sure we're going to go back to him as Center. Maybe with Skinner and Arviddson here that shakes out. Sorry I'm catching up to this stuff. I'm just out of the gate getting up to speed on some of the moves/additions.

The lines I had in mind would be:
Skinner-McD-Hyman
Holloway-Drai-Arvidsson
Kane-Nuge-Savoie
Janmark-Henrique-Brown

McDavid gets another scoring winger and he and Hyman can cover Skinner's deficiencies. Holloway and Arvidsson give Drai two speedy wingers which he seems to excel with. Kane provides some protection for Savoie and Nuge provides a defensive conscience for Kane and Savoie. That line would get easy offensive minutes. 4th line is the defensive matchup line.

 

[TheNumber4]

Well heres a thing. Why even start the Foegele/McLeod/Yamanothing/Pulju/Reider/kahun/Khaira etc etc arc and have Drai spend a decade here without proper or ideal linemates and now give him what he's needed all along when he's just getting past prime?

I dunno. maybe the org finally doing it to entice Drai to stick around? Man, nobody is more frustrated than me at Drai winger status the last decade.

Even at that we bring in Skinner who would be far from ideal with Drai ( just count the GA) and Arviddson who is well past prime and having a lot of injury trouble. Arvie is not the player he was even two years ago.

On the Drai portfolio the Oilers are a decade late and now filling with older wingers. Seem to be always behind in this regard.

Gonna be a lot of 100yr old lines on this club.

I would say we never had a chance to before for a couple reasons. Firstly we had shit free agency attractiveness. Which improved a boatload with McDavid, then hit another level after the Cup run. Now allowing us to WIN free agency attractiveness battles against teams like Toronto, Tampa for player services. Secondly we had other pressing matters, cause for the most part our Top 6 always did its job and produced for us, even if Drai wasn't being optimized with good line mates, so we focused our efforts in other areas (depth, D).

We did get Kane and Hyman as true top 6 wings. Kane was supposed to be Drai's winger, but injuries and possible regression has stalled that plan.

I'm high on Skinner and Arvie working with Drai. We shall see. I think Skinner is chomping at the bit to play for a winner. I understand he sucks defensively, so Knob will have to get some work done with him and integrate him into our system. But his offensive skill is undeniable, playing with Drai he will feast. Arvie is injury prone, but when playing healthy seems to be still highly productive. Just need him to stay healthy and he will be a good winger for Drai IMO.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The lines I had in mind would be:
Skinner-McD-Hyman
Holloway-Drai-Arvidsson
Kane-Nuge-Savoie
Janmark-Henrique-Brown

McDavid gets another scoring winger and he and Hyman can cover Skinner's deficiencies. Holloway and Arvidsson give Drai two speedy wingers which he seems to excel with. Kane provides some protection for Savoie and Nuge provides a defensive conscience for Kane and Savoie. That line would get easy offensive minutes. 4th line is the defensive matchup line.

Thanks. A lot of work for Nuge there. heh

kane is done. Stick a fork in done. hasn't been the same player for a longwhile now.

Drai could have trouble too as he's less good at carrying players in all zones now. Arviddsson used to be a solid player. Since injuries hit he's not a 200ft player. neither is Drai that good at it now. Holloway always seems to make mistakes. Like the player. But that line could have some problems.

The crux is if players like Skinner, Kane, even Arvie really buy in, or can. These are old players and age starts to cheat zones. I worry about the sustain of all our role players as well. Our bottomsix is gonna be ancient.

 

[McFlyingV]

Thats all fair. But as far as stopping cycle or not basically any player thats exposed a lot to the Nurse/Ceci pairing seemed to struggle in that regard. McLeod for his age is very good at TKA so its not like he's incapable. He makes a lot of deft plays for his age, like Nuge did at same age. Nuge has become more predatory with age but both anticipate reasonably well.

I think Mcleod is better as a Winger for his build out. But I can see the org has moved a different way with fullscale Vet wingers. Good and bad with that. Team could really lack pace now.

Agree on most points regarding McLeod, but Nuge was never afraid to go to the middle of the ice or to engage in contact quite like McLeod is. I love his active stick but I have never seen someone so afraid of contact. You can't be a defensive centre if you play like that, it eventually gets exposed and it did these playoffs. Nurse and Cei are a puck retrieval and breakout nightmare together, but McLeod is also a nightmare if his line gets hemmed in.

 

[Ninety7]

You gotta be kidding with this. Thats the whole thing. McLeod was better this season than several players on this club. People forget too big goals like scoring our first goal to get us going in an otherwise dire Game 4 against Dallas where we were trailing 2-1 in games and down 2-0 in game 4. That goal kickstarted the club.

Again Mcleod had more goals than Janmark, Brown, Perry put together and even saying that while I like Janmark. People elevating Brown is recency effect. He was garbage here 90% of his time here. He did the bare minimum to get extended. 6 measly goals in over 100GP.

In what way did Janmark and Brown vastly overplay Mcleod? In your imagination?

McLeod also scored 3 of our goals in the SC final. Where does this notion he was doing nothing come from?

He was disappointing this post season. Couple of guys stepped up, when it mattered, and he didn’t. Janmark and brown being the ones who did. I mean the guy was scratched and told by his coach that he needed to be better…

I’m sure his teammates with broken ribs, abdominal injuries, and broken fingers were ecstatic to see him laying the body in the biggest games of their careers though. Playoffs are a heavy game and McLeods game just isn’t built for it.

Now I dont think he was entirely useless, but he certainly was expendable and management saw that too, clearly. We also fully got more than what he is worth, and I don’t think that’s really debatable.

 

[Broberg Speed]

Partially maybe, but McLeod's game imo was evidently exposed these playoffs in ways that it hadn't been in previous years and that's because the Oilers faced a lot of heavy forechecking teams. McLeod is an excellent penalty killer because he can use his speed to get in lanes and he doesn't have to grind or knock guys off pucks. The problem is with heavy forechecking and cycle teams he struggles at 5 on 5 because he doesn't have an answer to stop their cycle once it starts. He's great at playing defence through the neutral zone, but once pucks are dumped in or cycle games are established he struggles immensely as the centre who needs to win physical battles down low.

When in the offensive zone McLeod didn't know what to do with the puck. When he had control of it along the boards we were a couple of seconds away from losing possession. It was clockwork.

 

[Drivesaitl]

He was disappointing this post season. Couple of guys stepped up, when it mattered, and he didn’t. Janmark and brown being the ones who did. I mean the guy was scratched and told by his coach that he needed to be better…

I’m sure his teammates with broken ribs, abdominal injuries, and broken fingers were ecstatic to see him laying the body in the biggest games of their careers though. Playoffs are a heavy game and McLeods game just isn’t built for it.

Now I dont think he was entirely useless, but he certainly was expendable and management saw that too, clearly. We also fully got more than what he is worth, and I don’t think that’s really debatable.

Still, McLeod scored 4 goals in 10 games after the benching. Scored 3 goals in the final round making him one of our leading scorers in that round. McLeod was scratched one game in playoffs, and responded well I thought. His stats support this.

McDavid and McLeod led the Oilers in SC final scoring. Each with 3 goals. Drai had zero, Nuge had one, Hyman had 2. Henrique 2.

The notion that McLeod was stinking the joint out in playoffs or the final was a bit manufactured.

Brown scored 4 goals all season and only 2 in playoffs and he "stepped up''? Seems like the bar is set different depending on name of player. McLeod in 2024 and beyond is probably better at every aspect of hockey than an old post injury Connor Brown.