Post-Game Talk: ECQF 3 (Flyers lead series 2-1): FLYERS 1 vs. Canadiens 0, Sunday, Aug. 16, 2020

[edbr3ak]

28-14-11 The first line we all know and love
12-13-93 Could be a possession monster
23-48-49 First line 2025
21-38-62 What the 4th line should look like on a Stanley Cup contender

 

[Beef Invictus]

At 5v5...

More of a lukewarm map than a heat map for this game

 

[flyerslducks]

a positive is that we are still struggling and winning. We can only go up from there. We need the same effort and start in game 4.

 

[Beef Invictus]

If ghost got his head out of his ass and allowed giroux to run the pp and set him up for one timers then he would be the best pp dman in the game. Ghost for all of 2018 was so selfish with the puck. itme and time again he would attempt stupid shots that would never get through instead of getting it to the future hall of famer and and allow him to run the pp. Provorov has one elite skill on the PP and that is his shot. Thats it but its also the one skill that we don't have at any other position on the PP. Our PP is in big trouble and teams are starting to really understand that we don't the weapons we once had.

He hasn't even been given a chance to "get his head out of his ass."

Provy's shot is not elite. For the distance he shoots from he needs Weber or Chara levels of power for it to be effective. He doesn't. He also doesn't use space to get into closer positions or really even force PKers to respect him, opening space for others.

Ghost at least required that a PKer remain glued to him, opening up the net front and center of the ice. PKers can collapse into the middle and keep us to the perimeter easily because Provorov isn't a threat. I suspect it's a major reason why Voracek never, ever has a shooting opportunity anymore, too.

If they are dead set on keeping Provy on the PP then they need to think up an entirely new setup, because plugging him into one that requires he have a large role is a failure.

 

[TheKingPin]

Well, a win is a win. It wasn't pretty. Teams like MTL, CBJ, NYI are hound mentality type teams that rely much more on structure & work ethic than skill. Playing teams like this is going to be frustrating & probably not the most fun games to watch, but a win’s a win at this point. Get what you can & keep moving forward. Lets gut out two more wins, get lindblom on the team, and move on.

NYI is pretty much an elevated and complete version of what MTL is trying to do. However, they do not have the goaltending that MTL does. They do have more star power and their structure they are a bigger team that plays very similar. That series will be a dog fight as well. I don't care about regular-season matchups and how we never won a game...I remember one of those games had Sanheim fall and turn the puck over twice and it resulted in a goal. We weren't the same flyers team then.

HART IS AMAZING. So happy that he got his first shut out.

Yup. Shits going to be ugly here for the next few games and next round if we make it. The caps may get swept and the pens almost were bc they couldn’t play ugly hockey that you need to counteract these annoying teams. At least for us since we have no speed. I think MTL will break later in the series and we can play more of a fun game.

 

[Striiker]

By taking our team from being garbage to 1st in the East, and having won 5 of the last 6 games? I understand that hockey like yesterday isn't very entertaining, but so far AV has had success objectively speaking.

That's not how this works. He doesn't get credit for the team improvement simply because he was the coach, as if he's a puppet master controlling the play of the players. He didn't put up any points or make any saves. If you want to point to specific direct actions he's made, then fine, but the teams placement isn't proof of coaching quality. Especially when we can easily point to mistake after mistake after mistake when it comes to the thing he has the most control over... the lineup and player usage.

This nonsense of "AV took them..." and "AV has them..." are just empty words. As an example, we wouldn't say "Hakstol took the team from a lottery team to a playoff team" or "Hakstol has them in the playoffs" back in 2017-2018, right? That was because of the players.

The real difference is that our roster this year is better than our roster last year, in large part because of the difference between using 70 different goalies and having a legit starter in Hart. Plus getting hot at the right time with that winning streak, because before that our record was close to our record with Hakstol in his most recent full year.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

I really don’t know if this team has to play this way to negate the Habs speed. But I agree with the sentiment. That was one fugly game.
Top line finally showing some life. Laughton better buy Hart dinner after those 2 hideous turnovers in their own zone.
Carter Hart and team defense won this game. Pretty much made Montreal earn their chances.
Niskanen and TK taking bad penalties. I also really hope someone works with Hart on handling the puck. Not good.

 

[flyerslducks]

We are doomed.

he has to be just trying to justify that line. What did he possibly see that we all didn't?

-JVR only played 9 minutes that game. Only 5:31 at EV. That is insane, lowest of the team and doghouse status. Just put farabee in then if you are going to do that
-Thompson had more EV ice time than voracek, jvr, grant, hayes, NAK, laughton, and only 20-30sec fewer than almost all of the other forwards. What did NAK do to play so little at even strength? I thought he worked his ass off and had some key blocks. Very surprised that raffl, after being out for a week, played so much. Its like he doesn't trust anyone and just wants to play it safe.

 

[flyerslducks]

Yup. Shits going to be ugly here for the next few games and next round if we make it. The caps may get swept and the pens almost were bc they couldn’t play ugly hockey that you need to counteract these annoying teams. At least for us since we have no speed. I think MTL will break later in the series and we can play more of a fun game.

I think so too. It's a good step forward to see how we look against teams that play this way. Isles are going to be a dog fight. All of their lines are very aggressive. We have to play that style and match it or we will struggle even more than this series. What we really need is a pp that can alleviate that pressure to score and dominate at even strength. We need our pp to bail us out and give us momentum.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Anyone else a little worried we aren't blowing the doors off of a crappy .500 team that shouldn't even be here?

I wouldn't worry much about last year. This is basically a new season.

 

[kudymen]

It's sort of ironic that we are scared to play our 21 year old center because he's too young/inexperienced/light/etc., and instead play Nasty Nate because he is a veteran/heavy/experience/reliable , who is getting dominated by Montreal's 19 and 20 year old centers who are young/inexperienced/light/etc...

 

[kudymen]

"Vigneault said postgame that he felt the fourth unit of Raffl, Nate Thompson and Tyler Pitlick was one of the Flyers' most effective lines in the victory."

Oh my lord. What is he smoking.

Yes, they were among 4 most effective lines.

 

[CaptCrunch]

They didn't think it was OK, they traded Cousins and Thompson and Scandella because they thought they were out of the playoffs at that time.
Flyers weren't dominated last night, they lost the Corsi battle b/c of the Habs style of play (2nd in Corsi in regular season), but won the xGF battle, in other words, they weren't giving up as many rebounds and keeping the Habs on the perimeter.

I agree. If Bergevin knew we would be in the playoffs Thompson would be on our 4th line right now.

Also, Flyers did what needed to be done to beat the habs. Clog up the middle, bring everything to the boards, protect the house, take away their speed.

It ain't pretty but it works.

 

[flyerslducks]

28-14-11 The first line we all know and love
12-13-93 Could be a possession monster
23-48-49 First line 2025
21-38-62 What the 4th line should look like on a Stanley Cup contender

that 3rd line will never happen until 2022 lol.

g-couts-tk
raffl-hayes-voracek
jvr-laughton-pitlick
farabee-grant-nak

or

g-couts-tk
jvr-hayes-farabee
nak-laughton-voracek
raffl-grant-pitlick

 

[FlyerNutter]

a positive is that we are still struggling and winning. We can only go up from there. We need the same effort and start in game 4.

I didn’t really think I could be this annoyed or disappointed after a win. Hart and a number of posts stole that game, as imo Montreal kind of outplayed the boys.

What I mean by that is their system catered more to creating chances where I feel as the Flyers simply tried to shut everything down. As a long term strategy, I’m not sure that’s a sustainable path to success.

They got butchered in game 2, but the pendulum swung extremely far toward conservative play.

 

[Jtown]

He's Luis Scola. Good call.

you mean handsome tom chambers

 

[Beef Invictus]

I really don’t know if this team has to play this way to negate the Habs speed. But I agree with the sentiment. That was one fugly game.
Top line finally showing some life. Laughton better buy Hart dinner after those 2 hideous turnovers in their own zone.
Carter Hart and team defense won this game. Pretty much made Montreal earn their chances.
Niskanen and TK taking bad penalties. I also really hope someone works with Hart on handling the puck. Not good.

Playing Thompson as heavily as they did does nothing to negate their speed, but it does ensure an incredibly ugly game.

 

[Jtown]

Our Savior in Flight

don't be silly. That is how he walks.

 

[Flyers Time]

That's not how this works. He doesn't get credit for the team improvement simply because he was the coach, as if he's a puppet master controlling the play of the players. He didn't put up any points or make any saves. If you want to point to specific direct actions he's made, then fine, but the teams placement isn't proof of coaching quality. Especially when we can easily point to mistake after mistake after mistake when it comes to the thing he has the most control over... the lineup and player usage.

This nonsense of "AV took them..." and "AV has them..." are just empty words. As an example, we wouldn't say "Hakstol took the team from a lottery team to a playoff team" or "Hakstol has them in the playoffs" back in 2017-2018, right? That was because of the players.

The real difference is that our roster this year is better than our roster last year, in large part because of the difference between using 70 different goalies and having a legit starter in Hart. Plus getting hot at the right time with that winning streak, because before that our record was close to our record with Hakstol in his most recent full year.

That's exactly how it works. That’s why he is nominated for coach of the year. Him not getting credit just because he doesn't play your favorite players or you think you know better than him is comical.

 

[Beef Invictus]

That's exactly how it works. That’s why he is nominated for coach of the year. Him not getting credit just because he doesn't play your favorite players or you think you know better than him is comical.

I can safely say that I know better when it comes to playing Thompson, our absolutely worst forward, more than Voracek who was among our best. When the coach does that kind of thing then the team is winning largely despite him. He made systemic adjustments, and that's great, but then he undermined any good that did with his deployment choices.


Would you say it is good coaching or bad coaching to play your worst players more than your best players?

 

[Jtown]

I can safely say that I know better when it comes to playing Thompson, our absolutely worst forward, more than Voracek who was among our best. When the coach does that kind of thing then the team is winning largely despite him. He made systemic adjustments, and that's great, but then he undermined any good that did with his deployment choices.


Would you say it is good coaching or bad coaching to play your worst players more than your best players?

i think too much is made out of ice time. a coach doesn't give a player ice time, a coach gives shifts. Ice time for a guy who starts in the d zone as much as Thompson is always going to be high if that usage keeps up.

 

[Cmoneyflyguy]

I heard Nate Thompson has the cure AND Vaccine for Covid but just doesn't feel like sharing.
And I once saw him punch a puppy (seriously!!)

 

[iceman42]

Why the hell was Grant out for some PP time? Was it to shake things up? Did I miss something and it was late in the PP so they got the defensive group out there?

 

[Beef Invictus]

i think too much is made out of ice time. a coach doesn't give a player ice time, a coach gives shifts. Ice time for a guy who starts in the d zone as much as Thompson is always going to be high if that usage keeps up.

Thompson should not be getting that many shifts in a playoff matchup. He shouldn't even be playing. He shouldn't even be here.

This is also AV, who drove Van and NYR fans absolutely insane in the playoffs by doing exactly this kind of silly stupid thing. I had hope based on the regular season that he'd changed, but clearly not.

 

[Striiker]

I can safely say that I know better when it comes to playing Thompson, our absolutely worst forward, more than Voracek who was among our best. When the coach does that kind of thing then the team is winning largely despite him. He made systemic adjustments, and that's great, but then he undermined any good that did with his deployment choices.


Would you say it is good coaching or bad coaching to play your worst players more than your best players?

Yeah, but he's nominated for an award so...