Series Talk: ECQ: Boston Bruins (2-0) Toronto Maple Leafs. Well. We can Win at Home. We Have to.

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Pookie

Wear a mask
Oct 23, 2013
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Komarov out. Johnsson in for game 2. That line looked so much better with the speedsters Johnsson and Kapanen working together. We can only hope right.

Our fortunes on the 4th line won't change this series if Marner can't fight through his checks. If Matthews just goes for a skate. The big players... the core... has to be core.

Kadri... Took himself out of the equation with what is sadly another example of targeting the head.
 

Nithoniniel

Registered User
Sep 7, 2012
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Marner scores that 2nd goal and Gardiner doesnt hit the post, that puts us up 3-1 and we dont take those stupid penalties. We had a chance to win. Stay out of the damn box and this games a different result. Havent lost faith.
Yeah. I see the incoming Kadri suspension as more of an issue than the game itself. We got drawn into an emotional, physical slugger-fest, and we were completely outmatched. When we played our game, we were the better team through the first 30 minutes of the game. If we go out and focus on just that, then I expect game 2 to look similar to those first 30. Better probably, because we were very nervous to start the game.

However, losing Kadri hurts. Instead of having two dynamic duos, we might be forced to go into next game without either.
 
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Throw More Waffles

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I feel like that game divided me into two people.

The "emotional mega-fan" part of my brain, and the "unemotional logical" part of my brain.

Emotional mega-fan still says leafs in 7. Boston was at home behind their fans and flying high, but we'll be more prepared for game 2. A couple lucky bounces on those 1st period PP's, and this is a whole different game.

But the "unemotional logical" part of my brain says Bruins in 4 or 5. That was men against boys last night. The stage was set. If the leafs curbstomped the Bruins that badly lat night, we'd all be saying "Leafs in 5, Boston can't handle our speed". When you don't merely defeat a team in game 1... but humiliate them, that usually seals the deal. This is where part of me (and many leaf fans) will scour the internet and find those rare exceptions of teams being utterly embarrassed in game 1 but still winning the series... and I suppose that is true. We could be another one of those rare... RARE.. exceptions. But that's what a leaf victory will be at this point. A rare exception to the rule.

Hopefully emotional mega-fan is right. But I doubt it.
 

Albert Iafrate

Registered User
Feb 29, 2008
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Everyone else is serving up a "hot take" so I figured why not me. You can find these posts in the PGT, but I figure they might get lost so I made a thread. Sue me.

Anyone suggesting we needed to play more physical obviously hasn't watched a single regular season game this year. We don't and can't play that style. We are successful because of speed and skill. It is as simple as that.

Not only do we not play that way, but when we try, we are terrible at it. We lose our cool and end up in the box half the game. People don't realize that playing that brutal Bruins style requires a talent of sorts, in such that you have to know how to "control" the physicality, if that makes any sense. They play right on that line, and that in itself requires skill. It's the dirty **** where the player appears to not have intended it. It's the hit from behind that didn't seem intentional. Here is the best way I can explain it.

Refs are humans, and they tend to more often call penalties on retaliation to contact, even illegal contact rather than the initial infraction. That doesn't seem fair, but that is the way it is, and how it always has been. The reason for it is not some grand conspiracy against the Leafs or teams like the Leafs. Simply, refs are swayed by the "intention" of the contact. Retaliation is often done in anger and frustration, and so it looks worse than illegal contact that happens in the flow of play. So with this being said, here is where teams like the Bruins and the Jets have an advantage if you try to play their game. They don't goon it up in angry more "obvious" way. It's just part of the way they play. They want you to lose your cool. How else do you explain Marchand kissing Komarov on the cheek.

The answer is simple. Don't engage. Don't try and play their game, because we are not "good" at it, and we end up imploding with frustration. Don't cry about obvious penalties not being called. Don't let it bother you. The call will eventually come. Just keep pushing speed and skill (which IS our strength) and eventually the refs will have to call penalties. Make THEM chase US. Once they start getting frustrated, that "skill" of playing on the edge will slowly slip over into stupid penalties. That's how we got those two power plays in the 2nd. They couldn't goon us because they couldn't catch us, so they had to use their sticks rather than their bodies. Stick penalties are more obvious and more likely to be called. So basically, think you got elbowed and didn't get a call, get up and shut up. Again, don't engage.

This is why Boston wins. We will lose in 4 games if we think this way.
The refs were not calling those penalties. So what? How did that effect the game, other than that it isn't fair. You know what did effect the game? Retaliation. Refs control the game, not the players. This isn't 1984. The league does not allow players to police themselves any more.

A team that plays like Boston should be at least top 5 in penalties called in the regular season right? NOPE. 14th overall in penalties called. It's like when a player complains about a penalty not being called to the ref. Is the ref going to suddenly penalize the player after the play is dead? NOPE. The reality is, the Bruins play dirty, and don't get called for it. Plain and simple. That will not change. Emailing the office, whining to officials, nothing will change that. It's been like that since they won the cup against Vancouver.

It's called composure, it's called keeping your cool, and teams like Boston thrive on their opponents not keeping their cool. That is how they win. Don't like the lack of calls. Suck it up, and definitely don't retaliate.

Truth is, the refs didn't suddenly stop calling obvious penalties on the Bruins last night. They've been doing it all year, and for years. It might not seem fair, but there is nothing we can do to change it other than not falling into the trap. Why do you think Boston has won 3/4 of their games in the last half of the season? IT'S A TRAP.

There's my "hot take". So if I'm Babcock, keep playing Polak, because Dermott helps him with his lack of speed, but remove anyone who doesn't play fast or skilled. No Komarov, no Plekanec, no Martin. And STOP playing Hainsey so much, and have faith in the d-man who appears to be our second best defender in Dermott. And if Kadri continues to be a hot head and retaliate, bench him until he stops.​
 

Nithoniniel

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Sep 7, 2012
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I agree with you. The game last night can be summed up in two halfs:

1st half we tried to beat them with our skill and speed, by doing what we have done to great effect all season. It was even at 1-1 with a Leafs goal in the air.
2nd half we got rattled and tried to give back hit for hit, cheap play by cheap play. It was a gongshow that Bruins won 4-0 and that cost us one of our most important players.

Why on earth would we try to push the series towards how it looked in the second half?
 
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Throw More Waffles

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The way I see it.

Both teams played their own styles the opening 10-15minutes. We saw how that went...

The end of the first and most of the 2nd we altered our game and challenged them on their game. That made things pretty even for a while...

But then Boston wore us down (physically and emotionally) and clearly took over.

My worry is the leafs did decent against another skill/speed team last playoffs, so we’ve now over valuing them. We’re seeing how importance toughness is in the playoffs.
 
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ottomaddox

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Oct 31, 2017
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Everyone else is serving up a "hot take" so I figured why not me. You can find these posts in the PGT, but I figure they might get lost so I made a thread. Sue me.

Anyone suggesting we needed to play more physical obviously hasn't watched a single regular season game this year. We don't and can't play that style. We are successful because of speed and skill. It is as simple as that.

Not only do we not play that way, but when we try, we are terrible at it. We lose our cool and end up in the box half the game. People don't realize that playing that brutal Bruins style requires a talent of sorts, in such that you have to know how to "control" the physicality, if that makes any sense. They play right on that line, and that in itself requires skill. It's the dirty **** where the player appears to not have intended it. It's the hit from behind that didn't seem intentional. Here is the best way I can explain it.

Refs are humans, and they tend to more often call penalties on retaliation to contact, even illegal contact rather than the initial infraction. That doesn't seem fair, but that is the way it is, and how it always has been. The reason for it is not some grand conspiracy against the Leafs or teams like the Leafs. Simply, refs are swayed by the "intention" of the contact. Retaliation is often done in anger and frustration, and so it looks worse than illegal contact that happens in the flow of play. So with this being said, here is where teams like the Bruins and the Jets have an advantage if you try to play their game. They don't goon it up in angry more "obvious" way. It's just part of the way they play. They want you to lose your cool. How else do you explain Marchand kissing Komarov on the cheek.

The answer is simple. Don't engage. Don't try and play their game, because we are not "good" at it, and we end up imploding with frustration. Don't cry about obvious penalties not being called. Don't let it bother you. The call will eventually come. Just keep pushing speed and skill (which IS our strength) and eventually the refs will have to call penalties. Make THEM chase US. Once they start getting frustrated, that "skill" of playing on the edge will slowly slip over into stupid penalties. That's how we got those two power plays in the 2nd. They couldn't goon us because they couldn't catch us, so they had to use their sticks rather than their bodies. Stick penalties are more obvious and more likely to be called. So basically, think you got elbowed and didn't get a call, get up and shut up. Again, don't engage.

This is why Boston wins. We will lose in 4 games if we think this way.
The refs were not calling those penalties. So what? How did that effect the game, other than that it isn't fair. You know what did effect the game? Retaliation. Refs control the game, not the players. This isn't 1984. The league does not allow players to police themselves any more.

A team that plays like Boston should be at least top 5 in penalties called in the regular season right? NOPE. 14th overall in penalties called. It's like when a player complains about a penalty not being called to the ref. Is the ref going to suddenly penalize the player after the play is dead? NOPE. The reality is, the Bruins play dirty, and don't get called for it. Plain and simple. That will not change. Emailing the office, whining to officials, nothing will change that. It's been like that since they won the cup against Vancouver.

It's called composure, it's called keeping your cool, and teams like Boston thrive on their opponents not keeping their cool. That is how they win. Don't like the lack of calls. Suck it up, and definitely don't retaliate.

Truth is, the refs didn't suddenly stop calling obvious penalties on the Bruins last night. They've been doing it all year, and for years. It might not seem fair, but there is nothing we can do to change it other than not falling into the trap. Why do you think Boston has won 3/4 of their games in the last half of the season? IT'S A TRAP.

There's my "hot take". So if I'm Babcock, keep playing Polak, because Dermott helps him with his lack of speed, but remove anyone who doesn't play fast or skilled. No Komarov, no Plekanec, no Martin. And STOP playing Hainsey so much, and have faith in the d-man who appears to be our second best defender in Dermott. And if Kadri continues to be a hot head and retaliate, bench him until he stops.​

This is an awful long thesis just to say "No Komarov and no Martin".

Babcock has had teams in the past that weren't filled with facepunchers.

The speed and toughness has to be there, but I am afraid TOR didn't bring any of that last night.

1 or 2 4th liners might make a little difference, but our top 9 fell down too.
 

Drew311

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Oct 29, 2010
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Speed will negate their dirty play.

The problem is when the Bruins clog up the neutral zone it neutralizes the Leafs speed. The Leafs had a lot of trouble getting over the red line last night and I don't think it's going to change. If the Leafs win this series it will be because of special teams.

Bottom line is the Bruins make it really difficult for the Leafs to enter their zone, and the Leafs were rolling out the red carpet for the Bruins to enter their zone. If the Leafs don't forecheck and take away neutral zone space then it will be a quick series.
 

MapleLeafs77

Registered User
Oct 20, 2017
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I dont understand how everyone is freaking out over kadri’s hit.....like am i blind or something? He didnt even hit him

Like sure if he made contact then yeah suspension (too be honest if marchand did that then there would absolutely be no suspension)
 
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LeafsLegendAkiBerg

The original great 8
Oct 12, 2006
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I dont understand how everyone is freaking out over kadri’s hit.....like am i blind or something? He didnt even hit him

Like sure if he made contact then yeah suspension (too be honest if marchand did that then there would absolutely be no suspension)

If Kadri didn't hit him why did Wingels leave the game...? :huh:
 

Albert Iafrate

Registered User
Feb 29, 2008
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The problem is when the Bruins clog up the neutral zone it neutralizes the Leafs speed. The Leafs had a lot of trouble getting over the red line last night and I don't think it's going to change. If the Leafs win this series it will be because of special teams.

Bottom line is the Bruins make it really difficult for the Leafs to enter their zone, and the Leafs were rolling out the red carpet for the Bruins to enter their zone. If the Leafs don't forecheck and take away neutral zone space then it will be a quick series.

The leafs get bogged down in the neutral zone because they are afraid of contact. They revert to "dump and chase" when the Bruins fill the middle of the ice. Look at Hyman's goal. He could have got plastered on the boards, but his speed allowed him to move through the clogged up neutral zone. I hate to say it, but our golden boy Matthews is constantly avoiding contact. Same with Nylander. Same with JVR. That's why those guys disappear in games like this. Forechecking isn't about using your stick, it's about getting hammered and still ending up with possession.
 
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PromisedLand

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The coach of the team says he needs a "MAN" in the line up; that "MAN" has no speed or skill; and is chosen over a skilled player (Johnsson); and the OP here thinks the coach wants to play a speed/skilled game

okay........
 

Albert Iafrate

Registered User
Feb 29, 2008
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This is an awful long thesis just to say "No Komarov and no Martin".

Babcock has had teams in the past that weren't filled with facepunchers.

The speed and toughness has to be there, but I am afraid TOR didn't bring any of that last night.

1 or 2 4th liners might make a little difference, but our top 9 fell down too.

My post also meant to address the whining that is going on around here about the officiating. Some of our players seem to have the same victim mentality. The top 9 didn't bring the speed because they were too busy worried about the toughness, and what was and wasn't being called. It's called composure. Keep your eyes in the direction you are going.
 

LeafsLegendAkiBerg

The original great 8
Oct 12, 2006
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Maybe cause him leaving the game got him a 5 min major and kicked out of the game? Maybe cause he will more likely get suspended if the player looked injured?

He never returned and he might not play next game. Are you suggesting Wingels is sitting out just to get Kadri suspended? :skeptic:

So basically you're suggesting Kadri never hit him, Wingels just sensed him in the area and took himself out of the game/multiple games just to get a 5 min power player in a 4-1 game?

kadri-hit.png

Kadri isn't even close to him! :sarcasm:
 

Albert Iafrate

Registered User
Feb 29, 2008
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The coach of the team says he needs a "MAN" in the line up; that "MAN" has no speed or skill; and is chosen over a skilled player (Johnsson); and the OP here thinks the coach wants to play a speed/skilled game

okay........

Oh, I'm not excusing Babcock here. He is the architect. He is just as guilty at falling into the old school mentality. He's trying to adapt, but he hasn't fully gotten there yet. I hope last night's game makes him realize that putting more "MEN" in the game is the wrong approach.
 

Daisy Jane

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The leafs get bogged down in the neutral zone because they are afraid of contact. They revert to "dump and chase" when the Bruins fill the middle of the ice. Look at Hyman's goal. He could have got plastered on the boards, but his speed allowed him to move through the clogged up neutral zone. I hate to say it, but our golden boy Matthews is constantly avoiding contact. Same with Nylander. Same with JVR. That's why those guys disappear in games like this. Forechecking isn't about using your stick, it's about getting hammered and still ending up with possession.

I think for Matthews, i wonder if he's protecting the shoulder a bit (and I think for him, with his size, he'll become that type of player he'll get hit and the player will bounce off him). Last year Matthews hit when he got hit etc. I am expecting a big game from him on Saturday. he can be (and i believe will be) much better.

Ditto for Will.
 
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Gary Nylund

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Oct 10, 2013
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I agree with you. The game last night can be summed up in two halfs:

1st half we tried to beat them with our skill and speed, by doing what we have done to great effect all season. It was even at 1-1 with a Leafs goal in the air.
2nd half we got rattled and tried to give back hit for hit, cheap play by cheap play. It was a gongshow that Bruins won 4-0 and that cost us one of our most important players.

Why on earth would we try to push the series towards how it looked in the second half?

Pretty good summary. I remember thinking at the half way mark that we were looking pretty good, horrible start but nice recovery. And then it all fell apart.
 

MapleLeafs77

Registered User
Oct 20, 2017
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He never returned and he might not play next game. Are you suggesting Wingels is sitting out just to get Kadri suspended? :skeptic:

So basically you're suggesting Kadri never hit him, Wingels just sensed him in the area and took himself out of the game/multiple games just to get a 5 min power player in a 4-1 game?

kadri-hit.png

Kadri isn't even close to him! :sarcasm:

Watch that clip at 1:08 and tell me that is a “disgusting and horrible hit” that everyone is saying
 

57 Years No Cup

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The leafs get bogged down in the neutral zone because they are afraid of contact. They revert to "dump and chase" when the Bruins fill the middle of the ice. Look at Hyman's goal. He could have got plastered on the boards, but his speed allowed him to move through the clogged up neutral zone. I hate to say it, but our golden boy Matthews is constantly avoiding contact. Same with Nylander. Same with JVR. That's why those guys disappear in games like this. Forechecking isn't about using your stick, it's about getting hammered and still ending up with possession.
I wish I could like this post twice.
 
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