Friedman: Dylan Larkin requests trade, Part II

[Golden_Jet]

Top asset on the trade market. Steal of a contract. Barren UFA class.

If teams want to improve Larkin is the best available option, by a lot. If Yzerman plays his cards right he should do very well on this.

Tuch is the best UFA available.
Teams usually end up with 3-4 quarters for a dollar, on theses deals.

 

[SirloinUB]

Tuch is the best UFA available.
Teams usually end up with 3-4 quarters for a dollar, on theses deals.

Good call bringing Tuch up; you are correct that he is the top UFA. Tuch is a lesser player and he will be paid more money to play a less valuable position.

As I said, Larkin is the top asset on the market and easily the best option for teams looking to improve.

 

[GetRidOfOettinger]

Good point bringing Tuch up; you are correct that he is the top UFA. Tuch is a lesser player and he will be paid more money to play a less valuable position.

As I said, Larkin is the top asset on the market and easily the best option for teams looking to improve.

Yeah that would be Robertson

 

[SirloinUB]

Yeah that would be Robertson

High end Centers typically carry more value than wingers. Especially when they make 3-4M less.

Remind me which player made the National Olympic team and played their way up the roster the entire tournament?

 

[dgibb10]

Good point bringing Tuch up; you are correct that he is the top UFA. He is the lesser player and he will be paid more money to play a less valuable position.

As I said, Larkin is the top asset on the market and easily the best option for teams looking to improve.

Is he the lesser player tho?

The less valuable position part true, the lesser player part? not as much

Similar production, Tuch the much better PK guy, much better EV strength results, better selke finishes and better underlying results.

Larkin more productive on the PP, but how much of that is him vs Debrincat and Kane (the PPs were consistently bad every year before they showed up), and even Raymond and Seider.

They're fairly similar quality players

 

[dgibb10]

High end Centers typically carry more value than wingers. Especially when they make 3-4M less.

Remind me which player made the National Olympic team and played their way up the roster the entire tournament?

Best on best hockey is not NHL hockey.

Robertsons limitations are in skating, which gets exposed when the other side has all the fastest players in the world on it. Fox was left off for the same reason, as well as the roles they wanted to fill.

In the NHL, robertson is the better player plain and simple. And again, much younger

 

[GetRidOfOettinger]

High end Centers typically carry more value than wingers. Especially when they make 3-4M less.

Remind me which player made the National Olympic team and played their way up the roster the entire tournament?

High end centers do carry more value, but we're talking Larkin.

Who cares about Olympics? it's a dumb interruption for a bunch of boring exhibition games where teams are picked off a bias.

The roster was so poorly constructed Hellebuyck had to stand on his head all game to keep them in it. It's not the flex you want it to be

 

[dgibb10]

High end centers do carry more value, but we're talking Larkin.

Who cares about Olympics? it's a dumb interruption for a bunch of boring exhibition games where teams are picked off a bias.

Robertsons issue in Olympic hockey was also skating.

That shows up more playing against all the fastest skaters on earth against team canada than it does against NHL teams.

 

[SirloinUB]

Is he the lesser player tho?

The less valuable position part true, the lesser player part? not as much

Similar production, Tuch the much better PK guy, much better EV strength results, better selke finishes and better underlying results.

Larkin more productive on the PP, but how much of that is him vs Debrincat and Kane (the PPs were consistently bad every year before they showed up), and even Raymond and Seider.

They're fairly similar quality players

By "similar production" you actually mean, "less production" right? Granted the difference isn't big but I just want to make sure we are clear and transparent on the facts.

And whomever lands Tuch will be paying at least 1.5M+ for that lesser production.

Defense and 5v5 play is definitely easier for wingers so while Tuch may have the "statistical edge" there, he is handed less responsibility and asked to do less.

Also, if a team wants to be stronger at center they will clearly value the actual center far beyond the winger that will cost them more money.

 

[SirloinUB]

Best on best hockey is not NHL hockey.

Robertsons limitations are in skating, which gets exposed when the other side has all the fastest players in the world on it. Fox was left off for the same reason, as well as the roles they wanted to fill.

In the NHL, robertson is the better player plain and simple. And again, much younger

High end centers do carry more value, but we're talking Larkin.

Who cares about Olympics? it's a dumb interruption for a bunch of boring exhibition games where teams are picked off a bias.

The roster was so poorly constructed Hellebuyck had to stand on his head all game to keep them in it. It's not the flex you want it to be

NHL GMs lke Bill Guerin, who are the ones building actual trade offers, care. And with that specific instance, have shown us who they value more. These international teams are built by a team of peers as well so it is clearly more than just one individual who valued Larkin > Robertson.

 

[dgibb10]

By "similar production" you actually mean, "less production" right? Granted the difference isn't big but I just want to make sure we are clear and transparent on the facts

And whomever lands Tuch will be paying at least 1.5M more for that lesser production.

Defense and 5v5 play is definitely easier for wingers so while Tuch may have the edge there, he is handed less responsibility and asked to do less.

I personally have questions about the production.

Larkin's production comes more and more from the power play where I am skeptical about how much he actually is helping, vs just being the recipient.

Very clearly Kane and Debrincat are the most important pieces of that power play, they have shown everywhere they go they elevate power plays greatly.

And I think I'd also have Raymond and even Seider as more important to the power play than Larkin.

I'd think on almost any other team that production sees a big hit.

 

[SuperScript29]

Yeah that would be Robertson

Even so, they are two different positions and bring different things to the table. Teams looking for top-6 centers are not going to go for Robertson. Potential players that may interfere with Larkin's value are the likes of Thomas (If he's in the market), Hischier, etc.

 

[GetRidOfOettinger]

NHL GMs lke Bill Guerin, who are the ones building actual trade offers, care. And with that specific instant, has shown us who they value more. These international teams are built by a team of peers as well so it is clearly more than just one person who valued Larkin > Robertson.

Sure you're right, there is a lot of dumb people involved in NHL leadership roles, that might think a low end #1 center, is better than the #1-2 LW in the NHL, who happens to be top 10 in leaguewide scoring since his rookie season, I mean Robertson has just a handful less even strength points than Larkin has total points in that time frame.

 

[GetRidOfOettinger]

Even so, they are two different positions and bring different things to the table. Teams looking for top-6 centers are not going to go for Robertson. Potential players that may interfere with Larkin's value are the likes of Thomas (If he's in the market), Hischier, etc.

Sure, there is something to be said for teams Like Minnesota needing a pair of top 6 centers over another elite wing. Larkin is the top center on the Market, at least currently, that doesn't make him also the top asset.

 

[SirloinUB]

I personally have questions about the production.

Larkin's production comes more and more from the power play where I am skeptical about how much he actually is helping, vs just being the recipient.

Very clearly Kane and Debrincat are the most important pieces of that power play, they have shown everywhere they go they elevate power plays greatly.

And I think I'd also have Raymond and even Seider as more important to the power play than Larkin.

I'd think on almost any other team that production sees a big hit. View attachment 1255567

I'm glad you included the comment "I am skeptical about how much he actually is helping, vs just being the recipient" as it tells us all you don't watch Red Wings games.

Dylan Larkin had an extremely important role to their PP over the last couple of seasons.

 

[Golden_Jet]

By "similar production" you actually mean, "less production" right? Granted the difference isn't big but I just want to make sure we are clear and transparent on the facts.

I think the poster laid out their facts fine, including Tuch had better even strength production, 10 points better.
All situations, Larkin was one point better, and yes within one, point is “similar” production, why even bother trying to flex that lol.

 

[SirloinUB]

I think the poster laid out their facts fine, including Tuch had better even strength production, 10 points better.
All situations, Larkin was one point better, and yes within one, point is “similar” production, why even bother trying to flex that lol.

You're right, if you slice their production in just the right way, it does look similar.

But if we want to "lay the facts out," since arriving in Buffalo Tuch has never outproduced Larkin. He tied Larkin one time and has put up 45 less points across 5 seasons or an average of 9 less points per season.

 

[dgibb10]

I'm glad you included the comment "I am skeptical about how much he actually is helping, vs just being the recipient" as it tells us all you don't watch Red Wings games.

Dylan Larkin had an extremely important role to their PP over the last couple of seasons.

How would you rank the 5 members of detroits PP1 in importance.

Larkin was on detroits PP1 for a long time before Kane and Debrincat showed up.

This is what it looked like.

So yes, I have concerns when your production at this point is heavily PP based on a team that has brought in 2 historically excellent PP weapons in Kane and Debrincat.

 

[duckpuck]

PV is hated by Agents lmaoo.. Not good for ducks

This is an odd take to post in response to the comment that Larkin doesn't want to go to the ducks, probably (possibly?) because of CA taxes. Verbeek doesn't set the CA tax rate and, in any event, an agent's input on PV is largely irrelevant because Larkin already has a long term contract. It would be reasonable to think it was PV if Larkin was eager to go to the Kings or SJ, but that does not seem to be the case.

Larkin has his preferred destinations but those teams can't offer as much as Anaheim or some other teams. It will take time to sort through this and see who blinks first. Yzerman is unlikely to blink first.

 

[Mirka the Turka]

Dylan Larkin

for

Simon Nemec
Dawson Mercer
2026 1st

Do you accept?

 

[dgibb10]

Dylan Larkin

for

Simon Nemec
Dawson Mercer
2026 1st

Do you accept?

I would not pay that for Larkin at all.

He doesn't make our power play better and his EV production and results (the areas we actually need to improve) are underwhelming for that price.

Also where does he play? on jacks wing? at 3C? why pay the center premium to use him as a winger

 

[Petes2424]

High end Centers typically carry more value than wingers. Especially when they make 3-4M less.

Remind me which player made the National Olympic team and played their way up the roster the entire tournament?

THIS is where many fans and media go very wrong with trade values they’re getting from their video game.

 

[RedHawkDown]

Trade offers indicate what teams are willing to pay for a version of larkin thats 26 instead of 30.

So you'd take those offers and make them smaller.

And more importantly than the value, is the centerpieces. You can see which players are going to be out there, and which players have been made untouchable.

Players that are untouchable for Thomas are certainly not going to become available for Larkin

That’s completely untrue. Thomas wasn’t traded. This means the offers were not good enough. Offers that weren’t good enough are hardly a basis for what ti expect for a different trade.

 

[CrazyDuck4u]

This is an odd take to post in response to the comment that Larkin doesn't want to go to the ducks, probably (possibly?) because of CA taxes. Verbeek doesn't set the CA tax rate and, in any event, an agent's input on PV is largely irrelevant because Larkin already has a long term contract. It would be reasonable to think it was PV if Larkin was eager to go to the Kings or SJ, but that does not seem to be the case.

Larkin has his preferred destinations but those teams can't offer as much as Anaheim or some other teams. It will take time to sort through this and see who blinks first. Yzerman is unlikely to blink first.

Bro Its not just Larkin. There was a poll out during the season.. PV got voted #1 in hardest to negotiate with lol

 

[SirloinUB]

How would you rank the 5 members of detroits PP1 in importance.

Larkin was on detroits PP1 for a long time before Kane and Debrincat showed up.

This is what it looked like.

View attachment 1255574
So yes, I have concerns when your production at this point is heavily PP based on a team that has brought in 2 historically excellent PP weapons in Kane and Debrincat.

This season the Redwings scored 4.96 Goals/60 on the PP with Larkin out of the lineup.

With Larkin in the lineup they scored 8.2 goals/60 on the PP.

As I said, anyone who actually watched Detroit/Larkin could tell me in a split second what Larkin did for Detroit and why it was crucial to their PP success, and why they did worse without him in the lineup.