Friedman: Duchene Mega-Thread Pt. 1 - Ottawa fielding offers, NSH & CBJ interested; Duchene sitting

[Super Cake]

Either Dreger is full of shit or Dreger is full of shit.

It is either one of those options.

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

Mtl is still an option I heard

 

[BatVader]

Either Dreger is full of **** or Dreger is full of ****.

It is either one of those options.

Starting to think it’s more like Shit is full of Dreger, that’s why it smells so bad.

 

[Kranix]

Haha who first reported Duchene was going to be scratched until the deadline

 

[h2]

Fiala + Tolvanen + a 1st sounds way too expensive, unless the Sens add something, like Stone, or another roster player.

The Sens have about 5 days to trade Duchene, or else they get nothing. So Duchene's value doesn't matter at this point, the Sens need to accept the best offer they can get.

Realistically, what teams could afford to give more than a 1st and a top prospect for Duchene right now, in addition to extending him for about 8x$8M?

"Something like Stone"

Yeah, I just mentally tuned out the rest of the post after that.

 

[bert]

Fiala + Tolvanen + a 1st sounds way too expensive, unless the Sens add something, like Stone, or another roster player.

The Sens have about 5 days to trade Duchene, or else they get nothing. So Duchene's value doesn't matter at this point, the Sens need to accept the best offer they can get.

Realistically, what teams could afford to give more than a 1st and a top prospect for Duchene right now, in addition to extending him for about 8x$8M?

When there are multiple teams bidding for the player there is value. I am guessing you have never actually been in any type of bidding war in your life in any scenario?

 

[koyvoo]

 

[triggrman]

When there are multiple teams bidding for the player there is value. I am guessing you have never actually been in any type of bidding war in your life in any scenario?

Tell me again which rental went for a young 50 point winger, a top prospect and a 1st. Or is this the first bidding war in NHL history.

 

[RickP]

"Something like Stone"

Yeah, I just mentally tuned out the rest of the post after that.

That was just an exaggeration, what I'm saying is I think Fiala + Tolvanen + 1st is unrealistic, and the only way Poile would do that is if the Sens added something significant to Duchene.

 

[BLONG7]

Haha who first reported Duchene was going to be scratched until the deadline

Dreger also known as TV's Eklund.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Aha what the f***

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

When there are multiple teams bidding for the player there is value. I am guessing you have never actually been in any type of bidding war in your life in any scenario?

This is basically your go to any time you don’t agree with somebody, isn’t it? All I see from you is stuff like “I guess you’ve never been in a bidding war” or “I guess you’ve never played hockey”.

How about actually constructing a real argument instead of just assuming things about posters who you don’t know anything about?

 

[BurgoShark]

Hossa to Penguins and Shattenkirk to Caps are probably the best baseline for a return IMHO.

 

[LOFIN]

What the hell does this even mean?

 

[JohnnyJacket13]

What the hell does this even mean?

Maybe there is a sign-and-trade on the table and he is mulling over the extension offer

 

[IslandersFan17]

What the hell does this even mean?

That he would understand if the front office decided to sit him to prevent him being injured.

However, hed still like to play regardless.

 

[RickP]

When there are multiple teams bidding for the player there is value. I am guessing you have never actually been in any type of bidding war in your life in any scenario?

Let me quote myself:

"The Sens need to accept the best offer they can get"

In theory, Duchene has a lot of value. But if no team is willing to give that value, the Sens need to take the best offer they can get, they only have 5-6 days left. Or else they get nothing and lose Duchene.

I don't think Poile would give Fiala + Tolvanen + 1st round pick, and I really don't think any other team is going to give that much either. We'll have to wait and see.

 

[BSensFan72]

Let me quote myself:

"The Sens need to accept the best offer they can get"

In theory, Duchene has a lot of value. But if no team is willing to give that value, the Sens need to take the best offer they can get, they only have 5-6 days left. Or else they get nothing and lose Duchene.

I don't think Poile would give Fiala + Tolvanen + 1st round pick, and I really don't think any other team is going to give that much either. We'll have to wait and see.

Doug Maclean and Nick Kypreos said that was a fair return for Duchene and with a bidding war and an extension they could get more ...I guess everyone is wrong ?

 

[Runner77]

Duchene is producing at a better rate than he was in his best season. How is he not a first line center? How is he not a two-way player? How is his current production an anomaly?

Can someone please provide some context, I keep reading from some posters how Duchene on a long term deal until he's 36, is not likely to provide a good return:

He has been a "first line center" for half a season. Otherwise, he had the same production as Plekanec and Koivu and never those were considered top liner here. Duchene doesn't have their two-way game. So, you want to add a player, in a position that Montreal doesn't need, give him an elite salary for a player slightly better than Drouin. Both are streaky, raw, talented but sometimes selfish offensive fowards. At least, Drouin has the age excuse and he has a good contract. ...We don't know if Duchene will stay the player that he is this season (in a contract year) or the player he was during the last seasons. ...

...

Duchene is a VERY streaky player. He goes on BRUTAL stretches then goes on stretches where he is over PPG. His point total this year could very well be an anomaly considering he has never played like this before. I don't feel comfortable giving up Drouin+2nd+9 million for a player 4 years older who has averaged 60 points a year before this year.

Thanks in advance for any replies. Please provide balanced feedback.

 

[Seanaconda]

That he would understand if the front office decided to sit him to prevent him being injured.

However, hed still like to play regardless.

I think the decision part is that he didn't sign the sens low ball offer so he knows that's why he's prob about to be traded

 

[Some Other Flame]

Doug Maclean and Nick Kypreos said that was a fair return for Duchene and with a bidding war and an extension they could get more ...I guess everyone is wrong ?

Everyone? No.

Those two? Yup.

You're going to have to come up better names than them if you want to be taken seriously. Duchene isn't some wunderkind here. There's a ton of precedent already set for the kind of return the Senators can expect for a player of his calibre and it doesn't involve multiple blue chip pieces. It probably won't involve any.

 

[Runner77]

Everyone? No.

Those two? Yup.

You're going to have to come up better names than them if you want to be taken seriously. Duchene isn't some wunderkind here. There's a ton of precedent already set for the kind of return the Senators can expect for a player of his calibre and it doesn't involve multiple blue chip pieces. It probably won't involve any.

What would you say is a market return for an extended Duchene?

 

[Hasbro]

How about Nashville goes big?

Duchene
Stone


Tolvanen
Fabbro
2019 1st
Conditional 1st for re-signing either

has the added bonus of keeping Stone out of Winnipeg and all but insures he'll at least get calls about signing elsewhere.

 

[Some Other Flame]

What would you say is a fair return for an extended Duchene?

For starter's this won't be a sign and trade. It'll be a trade and then a possible signing. Massive difference.

Secondly, roster player with salary, an A- or B-level prospect and a first round pick is the standard price for top rentals/deadline moves. Maybe the acquiring team throws in another mind round pick while the Senators add some throwaway roster player or prospect.

Hossa+Dupuis returned Esposito, Armstrong and a first. Kane returned a conditional first, a fourth round pick and O'Regan. O'Reilly with a lot of term left returned two cap dumps, a decent prospect, a first and second round picks.

Duchene isn't some unicorn in the trade market. And while he's a good player, the price for someone of his calibre in his situation has more or less been established.

 

[BurgoShark]

Duchene is producing at a better rate than he was in his best season. How is he not a first line center? How is he not a two-way player? How is his current production an anomaly?

Can someone please provide some context, I keep reading from some posters how Duchene on a long term deal until he's 36, is not likely to provide a good return:

Thanks in advance for any replies. Please provide balanced feedback.

I think he is a first line centre. He has been producing at that rate since xmas 2017. I guess the fear of an 8 year deal would come from him generating a lot of his offence from speed. Will he still have that speed in 6-7 years, and how effective can he be without it? By comparison Mark Stone is all brains so it's more likely he can play the same way after 30.