Friedman: Duchene Mega-Thread Pt. 1 - Ottawa fielding offers, NSH & CBJ interested; Duchene sitting

[RickP]

Doug Maclean and Nick Kypreos said that was a fair return for Duchene and with a bidding war and an extension they could get more ...I guess everyone is wrong ?

That would be a very fair return for the Sens. I just don't think the Preds want to give that. And as far as I know, no one said Poile was willing to give that, people are just throwing names around.

If it's true that Duchene wants to play for Nashville, and Nashville wants to extend him, then this is not a typical bidding war here. Duchene is the one in control, the Sens can't force him to sign with the team that offers the best package deal. Unless that other team is willing to give that package for Duchene as a rental player. I don't believe it's going to happen, but I could be wrong.

 

[bert]

Everyone? No.

Those two? Yup.

You're going to have to come up better names than them if you want to be taken seriously. Duchene isn't some wunderkind here. There's a ton of precedent already set for the kind of return the Senators can expect for a player of his calibre and it doesn't involve multiple blue chip pieces. It probably won't involve any.

Would you say you're a more reputable souce?

 

[preds1]

That would be a very fair return for the Sens.

It would actually be unprecedented. “Fair” has been surpassed by that point. Fisher returned a 1st and conditional 3rd. Not the same situation here, and I would expect Duchene to surely land a better package for the Sens. We (I) like the SenaPreds a lot, just want to get back to the realm of “fair”. But if that’s the ask, 1st, Tolvanen, Fiala, probably better to walk and do what we can in the off-season.

 

[SensFactor]

In other news

 

[KIRK]

Hossa to Penguins and Shattenkirk to Caps are probably the best baseline for a return IMHO.

Those are 2 different deals.

If you call Dupuis and Armstrong AT THAT TIME a wash, then the deal for Hossa alone effectively was a guaranteed 1st, the previous year's 1st, and a young meh center in Christensen.

The deal for Shattenkirk was the previous year's 1st and a conditional 2nd, which turned out to be lower since Shattenkirk walked and the Caps didn't advance past the 2nd round (I'd say that had comparable value to a player like Christensen).

SO . . . the Hossa deal included an extra 1st.

I'd assume THAT, the Hossa deal, is the baseline for the Sens . . . 2 1sts and a youngish player who can contribute or the equivalent.

 

[RickP]

It would actually be unprecedented. “Fair” has been surpassed by that point. Fisher returned a 1st and conditional 3rd. Not the same situation here, and I would expect Duchene to surely land a better package for the Sens. We like the SenaPreds a lot, just want to get back to the realm of “fair”. But if that’s the ask, 1st, Tolvanen, Fiala, probably better to walk and do what we can in the off-season.

Yeah that's what I think too. By "fair", I meant for the Sens it's very fair, meaning that it's a great return for them and they would accept that deal. But the Preds won't pay that much IMO. And I don't think other teams would pay that much for a rental either, so there's a good chance the Preds could get him for cheaper, but that's just my opinion of course.

 

[King Woodballs]

Dear Ottawa
Just f***ing trade him already.
Signed
Everyone

 

[Nakawick]

Hossa to Penguins and Shattenkirk to Caps are probably the best baseline for a return IMHO.

Atlanta Thrashers acquire	Date	Pittsburgh Penguins acquire
Colby Armstrong Erik Christensen Angelo Esposito 2008 1st round pick (#29-Daultan Leveille) [TBODY] [/TBODY]	February 26, 2008	Pascal Dupuis Marian Hossa [TBODY] [/TBODY]

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

I hope the Sens make out better than the Thrashers. (unless Duchene goes to the Pens).

 

[Rob Bowen]

Pittsburgh. They apparently made a very serious push to get him out of Colorado.

They are probably going to be the only team to offer their first round pick and Dorion will take it so he can sell us the rebuild.

We aren't buying it though.

I think with Pitt acquiring Bujstad, Duchene is probably out of the picture.

theBRKDWN Sports – GMs to Avoid as Trade Partners

 

[Hasbro]

I think with Pitt acquiring Bujstad, Duchene is probably out of the picture.

theBRKDWN Sports – GMs to Avoid as Trade Partners

Meanwhile, stop your wedding if Dorion calls.

Kyle Dubas #1

 

[Runner77]

For starter's this won't be a sign and trade. It'll be a trade and then a possible signing. Massive difference.

...

Why would it be assorted with only a "possible signing" when it has been reported that Duchene is open to a signing an extension as part of a trade deal?

Also, wouldn't a sign and trade make more sense to Ottawa since they could maximize their return better than if the player is transacted as a rental?

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Atlanta Thrashers acquire	Date	Pittsburgh Penguins acquire
Colby Armstrong Erik Christensen Angelo Esposito 2008 1st round pick (#29-Daultan Leveille) [TBODY] [/TBODY]	February 26, 2008	Pascal Dupuis Marian Hossa [TBODY] [/TBODY]

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

I hope the Sens make out better than the Thrashers. (unless Duchene goes to the Pens).

The funny thing is, there's a lot of rival fans who'd likely torch a fan who asked for the modern day equivalent to the above package for a rental.

A young 3rd liner with a bit of a scoring history, a mid 1st rounder from the most recent draft who had a bit of name value and notoriety, a bottom 6 C, along with a 1st. I wish HFBoards had a better archive, it would be fun to see the reaction to that package for a rental.

Dupuis carved out a fantastic career after the deal, but correct me if I'm wrong, he didn't really hold much value at the time of the deal. He wasn't seen as the very solid middle 6 (sometimes complimentary top 6) player he eventually became in Pittsburgh for certain periods of time.

 

[RickP]

Why would it be assorted with only a "possible signing" when it has been reported that Duchene is open to a signing an extension as part of a trade deal?

Also, wouldn't a sign and trade make more sense to Ottawa since they could maximize their return better than if the player is transacted as a rental?

Yes, but they don't decide who Duchene wants to sign with. The team(s) Duchene wants to sign with won't necessarily offer the best package to the Sens. That's the tricky part in this situation. The teams Duchene don't want to sign with, will significantly lower their offer if it's just for a rental.

 

[BigRig4]

With the recent news that Nashville is the frontrunner and all the smoke around Tolvanen being moved I really think a move will be something like:

Duchene

Tolvanen
1st
Roster player (Probably a bottom 6 guy, maybe Sissons or Hartman?)
Conditional 2nd upon re-signing

 

[PredsV82]

Let me quote myself:

"The Sens need to accept the best offer they can get"

In theory, Duchene has a lot of value. But if no team is willing to give that value, the Sens need to take the best offer they can get, they only have 5-6 days left. Or else they get nothing and lose Duchene.

I don't think Poile would give Fiala + Tolvanen + 1st round pick, and I really don't think any other team is going to give that much either. We'll have to wait and see.

That would be a massive haul and would be for an extended Duchene only.

Which I kinda think would be a dumb move by Poile because he could be ours for nothing this summer, but who knows..

 

[Some Other Flame]

Why would it be assorted with only a "possible signing" when it has been reported that Duchene is open to a signing an extension as part of a trade deal?

Also, wouldn't a sign and trade make more sense to Ottawa since they could maximize their return better than if the player is transacted as a rental?

Why exactly would Duchene do the Senators that kind of favour and at the same time, further weaken the team he's about to join?

Of course it makes sense for Ottawa. But does it make sense for Duchene? Does it make sense for the acquiring team to pay full price for a signed Duchene when instead they can pay the rental price and then try to sign him themselves?

Especially since he's amenable to signing with whatever team he's going, it makes even less sense to rushing a new contract.

 

[Runner77]

Why exactly would Duchene do the Senators that kind of favour and at the same time, further weaken the team he's about to join?

Of course it makes sense for Ottawa. But does it make sense for Duchene? Does it make sense for the acquiring team to pay full price for a signed Duchene when instead they can pay the rental price and then try to sign him themselves?

Especially since he's amenable to signing with whatever team he's going, it makes even less sense to rushing a new contract.

Well, you can rationalize it that way, but that's not what's being reported:



We'll see what comes out of it.

 

[Armourboy]

Key words there are " open ". No one is giving anything unless they have a guarantee from him that he is signing.

Just because someone wants him doesn't mean he is "open" to signing with them.

I can guarantee you David Poile isn't making any deal unless he has pen to paper.

 

[bert]

This is basically your go to any time you don’t agree with somebody, isn’t it? All I see from you is stuff like “I guess you’ve never been in a bidding war” or “I guess you’ve never played hockey”.

How about actually constructing a real argument instead of just assuming things about posters who you don’t know anything about?

Its my go to when its obvious that its the case, yes. If you have experience in either field it shouldnt be something that comes into question.

 

[Hellraising Senator]

Gonna be some crow eaten soon by some people. Who will be decided soon

 

[BondraTime]

Gonna be some crow eaten soon by some people. Who will be decided soon

What does this mean?

Will he be traded for a good package leaving those saying he won't be eating crow?

Will he be traded for a bad package leaving those said he will be eating crow?

Will he sign? Will he be traded?

You've added nothing other than the fact that like every single trade/signing, some will be on the wrong side of things.

 

[Hellraising Senator]

He will be getting a better package then most assume.

 

[BondraTime]

He will be getting a better package then most assume.

So it's been decided already, no deciding soon.

 

[SpezDispenser]

Why would Duchene sign an extension now and not go to market in July?

 

[SensFactor]

He will be getting a better package then most assume.

For Duchene or Stone?