Dreger: Duchene Mega-thread: Habs, NSH inquired about Duchene. Asking price is ridiculous.

[Ivan13]

Sergachev is significantly better than Zadorov. Not to mention, the Sabres also had a surplus of top, young D in the system like Ristolainen, McCabe, etc.

Sergachev going to Colorado for Duchene would be like the Sabres trading Ristolainen instead of Zadorov - not going to happen.

For those saying the Avalanche do not need/want to trade Duchene, they're dreaming. There's a reason Sakic is looking to make massive changes - even with a core like Duchene, Landeskog, MacKinnon, Barrie, Rantanen, Varlamov, etc. ... the Avs are DEAD LAST in the NHL. They have underachieved for 2 years straight and are taking steps back from where they were a few years ago as a young team that made the playoffs when MacKinnon was a rookie.

The Avalanche made it know that Duchene (and maybe other big names) are available and Duchene himself said he's "ok with being traded." Once it gets to that, a trade is inevitable.

Don't get me wrong, Duchene is a good player, but he really hasn't accomplished anything close to elite level; he makes a TON of money; and he's a main piece on a team that has continually underachieved. The return will be good (if he's traded) but it will not include a player like Sergachev, Provorov, McAvoy, etc. Those players are defensemen you build your entire blue line around - they are young, cheap and can make an immediate impact - look at Provorov leading the Flyers in ice time as a 19-20 year old!

The type of deal I see the Avs getting is...

TO MTL: Duchene
TO COL: Plekanec, Scherbak/McCarron, Juulsen, 1st

TO NYI: Duchene
TO COL: Lee, Barzal, Pulock, 1st

The thing is, he really isn't.

Also, I'd say being a top 10 point producer at ES in the entire NHL since the last lockout means he is elite at producing points at ES. Furthermore, hockey is a team sport, attributing success or rather failure of the team on the back of a single player, when said player is one of the few that carries his load is foolish at best.

Last, but not least, Sergachyov and McAvoy aren't comparable to Provorov.

 

[Brock Radunske]

So a guy who put up 30 as a 21 year old, and was on pace for around 75-80 points before injurie as a 22 year old is not a first line center-man?

He's a 1st line center but I would say he'd fall in the 20-30 category.
I mean, Price might be able to win you a championship with Chucky as center like Thomas did with Boston but it's pretty rare for a team to win with a low-end #1 center and poor center depth.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Yup. Just like orielly being a headache and a #2 Center and his contract status meaning he was gonna go for peanuts too. I find it amusing how fans on here get on their high horse regarding contract status. I've not head a single insider mention duchene having 2.5 years left on his contract in a negative light.

I absolutely hate the way this always goes:

Avs fans- hey guys, if you want a player of oriellys quality, it's going to take zadorov plus a pick and a good prospect

Buffalo fans: lol you're not going to get that for a second line 50 point Center who isn't even on a contract and will end up being a one year rental. What if he bolts!! Psysk and a bunch of filler garbage is out best player

Avs fans: no guys he's really good. He's easily be your best Center.

Buffalo fans: looooollll zadorov is a no start Avs fans. Get real. You guys always over value your players. Contract status rabble rabble rabble.

Avs fans: okay we will keep him the. The avs don't have to move him.

Buffalo: orielly is not worth our potential star defenseman. You guys are going to feel stupid when you see the return. Avs fans overvalue their playwrs1111!!111

And I'm not picking on Buffalo fans. I could literally change them with any team during that time.

And if duchene is traded; I can almost guarantee that the fans calling him a #2 Center are the same one that are going to say the avs were stupid for trading such a high quality player #1 Center down the road if he is traded too.

The prospect bias on this site is absolutely insane.

If you hear the same similar thing as your not getting a top 10 pick from several teams then maybe you should be starting to realize something... the actual true value is not as high as you imagine.

 

[Bender]

Sergachev is significantly better than Zadorov. Not to mention, the Sabres also had a surplus of top, young D in the system like Ristolainen, McCabe, etc.

Sergachev going to Colorado for Duchene would be like the Sabres trading Ristolainen instead of Zadorov - not going to happen.

For those saying the Avalanche do not need/want to trade Duchene, they're dreaming. There's a reason Sakic is looking to make massive changes - even with a core like Duchene, Landeskog, MacKinnon, Barrie, Rantanen, Varlamov, etc. ... the Avs are DEAD LAST in the NHL. They have underachieved for 2 years straight and are taking steps back from where they were a few years ago as a young team that made the playoffs when MacKinnon was a rookie.

The Avalanche made it know that Duchene (and maybe other big names) are available and Duchene himself said he's "ok with being traded." Once it gets to that, a trade is inevitable.

Don't get me wrong, Duchene is a good player, but he really hasn't accomplished anything close to elite level; he makes a TON of money; and he's a main piece on a team that has continually underachieved. The return will be good (if he's traded) but it will not include a player like Sergachev, Provorov, McAvoy, etc. Those players are defensemen you build your entire blue line around - they are young, cheap and can make an immediate impact - look at Provorov leading the Flyers in ice time as a 19-20 year old!

The type of deal I see the Avs getting is...

TO MTL: Duchene
TO COL: Plekanec, Scherbak/McCarron, Juulsen, 1st

TO NYI: Duchene
TO COL: Lee, Barzal, Pulock, 1st

Nope. Ristolainen was NHL proven at the time of that trade with about 100 games or so in the NHL...it's not even close to comparable.

Zadorov ALSO had 67 games of NHL experience before the trade went down, so the Avs had a chance to evaluate him at this level before making a trade. Huge difference.

Yeah clearly Duchene has pictures so he can blackmail the people who choose TEAM CANADA to put him on the Olympics and World Cup rosters. I guess not only making those teams but actually being a good, producing members of those teams isn't 'elite' enough for you. It's true, he makes a TON of money unlike Plekanec who is a bargain.

 

[Nucks N Canes]

What do you think is happening with Duchene.
It's clear the Avs core is rotten and needs to be moved out, just like with Toronto (and the Avs are even worse)

Care to elaborate how they are worse?

 

[twostroke27]

I disagree with almost every habs fans here. Sergachev can easily be part with for a quality guy like Duchene.

Just imagine Habs fans, getting another Galchenyuk quality players for at least 2,5 years. That guarantee us 3 playoffs run as contender.

Don't you think giving Sergachev worths that?? I certanly do. Easy choice for me.

It's an easy choice for any NHL GM too.

 

[twostroke27]

If you hear the same similar thing as your not getting a top 10 pick from several teams then maybe you should be starting to realize something... the actual true value is not as high as you imagine.

It's higher than the garbage you keep trying to pass off as a decent offer.

 

[Benstheman]

Sergachev is significantly better than Zadorov. Not to mention, the Sabres also had a surplus of top, young D in the system like Ristolainen, McCabe, etc.

Sergachev going to Colorado for Duchene would be like the Sabres trading Ristolainen instead of Zadorov - not going to happen.

For those saying the Avalanche do not need/want to trade Duchene, they're dreaming. There's a reason Sakic is looking to make massive changes - even with a core like Duchene, Landeskog, MacKinnon, Barrie, Rantanen, Varlamov, etc. ... the Avs are DEAD LAST in the NHL. They have underachieved for 2 years straight and are taking steps back from where they were a few years ago as a young team that made the playoffs when MacKinnon was a rookie.

The Avalanche made it know that Duchene (and maybe other big names) are available and Duchene himself said he's "ok with being traded." Once it gets to that, a trade is inevitable.

Don't get me wrong, Duchene is a good player, but he really hasn't accomplished anything close to elite level; he makes a TON of money; and he's a main piece on a team that has continually underachieved. The return will be good (if he's traded) but it will not include a player like Sergachev, Provorov, McAvoy, etc. Those players are defensemen you build your entire blue line around - they are young, cheap and can make an immediate impact - look at Provorov leading the Flyers in ice time as a 19-20 year old!

The type of deal I see the Avs getting is...

TO MTL: Duchene
TO COL: Plekanec, Scherbak/McCarron, Juulsen, 1st

TO NYI: Duchene
TO COL: Lee, Barzal, Pulock, 1st

Well Avs easily pick up the Isles deal.

Lee>Plekanec
Barzal>Scherbak/McCarron
Pulock>Juulsen
Isles 1st> Habs 1st

 

[WesMcCauley]

That's what you think. But if the "dream deal" for the Aves you are referring too was actually on the table, the deal would be history. Mark my words, The trade will be similar to the offers I listed in the previous post.... From the Habs or any other team.

I feel your not factoring the remaining contract to the value of the player on the market. Yes guys like Duchene and Patch are elite but both those guys are soon to be UFA's after the 2019 season. Don't get me wrong, they both have value but it's not the same value as if they were signed long term. Patch would have significantly higher value than Duchene due to being a steady 30-40 goal scorer and his bargain $4.5M AAV.

I just dont see Avs giving him up for a bunch of mediocre players. If thats the case then just keep him for the next 3 years instead. I also think a team like Nashville or NYI would be willing go give up more than Habs if they arent willing to deal a guy like Sergachev. This season and the next 2 seasons are Habs best chances to win anyway. Both Patches and Price will get alot of money as UFA´s.

 

[Bender]

I just dont see Avs giving him up for a bunch of mediocre players. If thats the case then just keep him for the next 3 years instead. I also think a team like Nashville or NYI would be willing go give up more than Habs if they arent willing to deal a guy like Sergachev.

Bingo!

Absolutely, if the Habs prefer to keep Sergachev that is fine and I have no problem with that but just don't expect to acquire Duchene.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I disagree with almost every habs fans here. Sergachev can easily be part with for a quality guy like Duchene.

Just imagine Habs fans, getting another Galchenyuk quality players for at least 2,5 years. That guarantee us 3 playoffs run as contender.

Don't you think giving Sergachev worths that?? I certanly do. Easy choice for me.

That's what Bob Gainey thought when he traded Ryan M for Gomez back when. Say what you want in hindsight about Gomez today but the only difference between Gomez and Duchene was Gomez was about 3 years older at the time he was traded. Both had similar numbers and play similar games with speed.

Aves definitely want a guy similar to Sergachev. Question is what team is going to be desperate and offer it. Some people are saying it's not a problem at all... well if it was a slam dunk deal and most GM's would simply do it. Don't you think the deal would of been made by now?

 

[twostroke27]

Sergachev is significantly better than Zadorov. Not to mention, the Sabres also had a surplus of top, young D in the system like Ristolainen, McCabe, etc.

Sergachev going to Colorado for Duchene would be like the Sabres trading Ristolainen instead of Zadorov - not going to happen.

For those saying the Avalanche do not need/want to trade Duchene, they're dreaming. There's a reason Sakic is looking to make massive changes - even with a core like Duchene, Landeskog, MacKinnon, Barrie, Rantanen, Varlamov, etc. ... the Avs are DEAD LAST in the NHL. They have underachieved for 2 years straight and are taking steps back from where they were a few years ago as a young team that made the playoffs when MacKinnon was a rookie.

The Avalanche made it know that Duchene (and maybe other big names) are available and Duchene himself said he's "ok with being traded." Once it gets to that, a trade is inevitable.

Don't get me wrong, Duchene is a good player, but he really hasn't accomplished anything close to elite level; he makes a TON of money; and he's a main piece on a team that has continually underachieved. The return will be good (if he's traded) but it will not include a player like Sergachev, Provorov, McAvoy, etc. Those players are defensemen you build your entire blue line around - they are young, cheap and can make an immediate impact - look at Provorov leading the Flyers in ice time as a 19-20 year old!

The type of deal I see the Avs getting is...

TO MTL: Duchene
TO COL: Plekanec, Scherbak/McCarron, Juulsen, 1st

TO NYI: Duchene
TO COL: Lee, Barzal, Pulock, 1st

Lol. i take the isles deal and run as the avs still don't want montreals garbage. Do you seriously those two deals are in the same universe in terms of value?

 

[Ivan13]

Juulsen is a pretty solid prospect on Defense drafted in the 1st round at 26th overall and was impressive with team Canada. Not overally offensive but a guy who plays very solid D and doesn't make mistakes. He's going to be a solid top 4D at least IMO. He's been used as a shut down defenseman and is very good at it.

Beaulieu as well but all depends on who the Aves would prefer and what age range they are targeting. I suspect they want defenseman similar to MacKinnon age and under team control for several seasons.

I know who Juulsen is, I've seen him play countless times and he is nowhere good enough to be the main piece in the deal like this, same goes for Beaulieu. And again, there's no way in hell Habs trade him when they are going for it.

 

[otto bond]

Hard to gage the value of Duchene but it's got to be fairly high. Montreal's depth isn't that great and with Vegas expansion, that changes things for teams. Also in the cap era, complicates things a whole lot.
IMO, Sergachev and Juulsen are the only 2 prospect that are untouchable for now.

 

[twostroke27]

That's what Bob Gainey thought when he traded Ryan M for Gomez back when. Say what you want in hindsight about Gomez today but the only difference between Gomez and Duchene was Gomez was about 3 years older at the time he was traded. Both had similar numbers and play similar games with speed.

Aves definitely want a guy similar to Sergachev. Question is what team is going to be desperate and offer it. Some people are saying it's not a problem at all... well if it was a slam dunk deal and most GM's would simply do it. Don't you think the deal would of been made by now?

Not necessarily. There is a ways out from the tdl and there would likely be multiple players involved. You seem to think the avs are in a rush to move duchene?

 

[Benstheman]

That's what Bob Gainey thought when he traded Ryan M for Gomez back when. Say what you want in hindsight about Gomez today but the only difference between Gomez and Duchene was Gomez was about 3 years older at the time he was traded. Both had similar numbers and play similar games with speed.

Aves definitely want a guy similar to Sergachev. Question is what team is going to be desperate and offer it. Some people are saying it's not a problem at all... well if it was a slam dunk deal and most GM's would simply do it. Don't you think the deal would of been made by now?

Stop That.

Duchene is 3 years younger, is way better than Gomez, who, at that time, was considering like one of the worst contracts in the league. And most of all, Habs were far far far away from being 1 piece away of being contender.

 

[hersky77]

He's a 1st line center but I would say he'd fall in the 20-30 category.
I mean, Price might be able to win you a championship with Chucky as center like Thomas did with Boston but it's pretty rare for a team to win with a low-end #1 center and poor center depth.

I think hes around 15-18. He's around Duchene territory. Which isnt a bad thing.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

I know who Juulsen is, I've seen him play countless times and he is nowhere good enough to be the main piece in the deal like this, same goes for Beaulieu. And again, there's no way in hell Habs trade him when they are going for it.

Saying Juulsens potential is top 4 atleast is hilarious really. A top 4 D-Man is probably his ceiling. He is a fairly average prospect all things considered.

 

[BLNY]

The "hfboards standard ask" would be Galchenyuk.

1. Avs want defense, so Galchenyuk isn't what they're after.

2. If the Habs were inclined to move Alex in a deal for Matt you're talking virtually one for one.

 

[Brock Radunske]

Care to elaborate how they are worse?

Are they not well on their way to a near record low in points totals this year while having a core #1, #1, #2, #3 overall picks?
I mean, the Leafs were bad...but they were never this bad.

 

[Ivan13]

What do you think is happening with Duchene.
It's clear the Avs core is rotten and needs to be moved out, just like with Toronto (and the Avs are even worse)

It's clear to those who have no idea what is going on in Colorado. Duchene, Landeskog, Nate, Rantanen, Zadorov and Barrie are the only ones who are doing something on the ice and contributing to the team. The supporting cast is the rotten part of the team, supposed veteran leaders are the problem on the team, not the core that is actually showing up and playing decent hockey every given night despite the fact that 80% of the roster does everything in their power to lose games.

They need to get rid of bums like Iginla, Soderberg, Beauchemin, Colbourne, Comeau, Mitchell, Bourque, Martinsen, Grigorenko and Gelinas, not Matt Duchene.

 

[Mashed Potatoes]

What does Sergashev project to have as ceiling? Erik Johnsson?

 

[Habs Halifax]

The thing is, he really isn't.

Also, I'd say being a top 10 point producer at ES in the entire NHL since the last lockout means he is elite at producing points at ES. Furthermore, hockey is a team sport, attributing success or rather failure of the team on the back of a single player, when said player is one of the few that carries his load is foolish at best.

Last, but not least, Sergachyov and McAvoy aren't comparable to Provorov.

The difference between Sergachev (18), Zadorov (21), McAvoy (19) and Provorov (20) is age and development after they were drafted. Sergachev is the youngest and was just drafted #9 overall in the past draft (a very deep draft too). That is why the Habs can't trade him at this point. Nobody really knows if he is going to be a elite level top defenseman or a top 2 or top 4. His true potential is in that range somewhere and it's too early to really know.

What I do think though is Sergachev is in the NHL this season if he was drafted by a team that was not competing for a cup. He's got a solid all around game and size to compliment it. He won't be pushed around in the NHL even at age 18.

 

[Beendair Donedat]

Would rather have Landeskog over Duchene if Galchenyuk comes back healthy.

I'd offer:

To Colorado: 2017 1st rounder, Mikhail Sergachev, David Desharnais (for cap reasons)

To Montreal: Gabriel Landeskog

Habs lineup for the playoffs:

Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Radulov
Landeskog - Danault - Gallagher
Lehkonen - Plekanec - Shaw
Byron - Mitchell - _____

Emelin - Weber
Markov - Petry
Beaulieu - Pateryn
Nesterov

Price
Montoya

That's about as deep of a lineup as you can get - great mix of size, speed, talent and toughness with great leadership.

 

[Ivan13]

The difference between Sergachev (18), Zadorov (21), McAvoy (19) and Provorov (20) is age and development after they were drafted. Sergachev is the youngest and was just drafted #9 overall in the past draft (a very deep draft too). That is why the Habs can't trade him at this point. Nobody really knows if he is going to be a elite level top defenseman or a top 2 or top 4. His true potential is in that range somewhere

Zadorov was traded at 21? He didn't have top pairing potential when he was traded? He wasn't drafted high in a deep draft?

If Habs want Duchene, Sergachyov will be going the other way.