Dreger: Duchene Mega-thread: Habs, NSH inquired about Duchene. Asking price is ridiculous.

[Captain Mountain]

That wont get Montreal a cup

If Duchene GETS Montreal a cup, the trade would have happened already. But he doesn't do that any more than that trade does.

 

[Fazkovsky]

Pacioretty is a 40 goals scorer

He isn't that good ? Yes he is

 

[AvsCOL]

Fine, I guess we'll keep our 26 year old 30-goal scorer, and you guys can find another available player of his caliber.





I'll wait.

 

[bleuetbio]

Also hell no to your deal.

Avs have 0 interest in Pacioretty.

Give us Sergachev+++ for Duchene and lets be done with that.

Its no deal case anyway, but telling that a club has 0 interest is a pure lie. All 29 clubs would take him

- No stat to present, but he's probably the NHL's best the goal scorer since november
- He has a salary cap of 4.5M$ for 3 years
- He's a leader and a realy genuine person

In fact, shame on any poster who puts him on a trade block since PK's trade

 

[trentmccleary]

All of this is fine for justifying why bad trade proposals based on a couple of seasons worth of stats are bad. However, I still find the argument that a player will definitely do (insert thing that isn't based on anything other than speculation) on a competent team to be a poor argument. If I'm offering, for instance, Ekholm + Fabbro + 2017 1st round pick why can't I turn around and start throwing out things that are based on nothing more than pure speculation to start working that down to Ekholm + Smith + a third? All I'm saying is there is enough there to shoot down bad offers without the "he would definitely have a career year on your team" promise that can't be kept.

Even better is the Avs fans... well, let me put the sales pitch like this;

This widget is worth $100 today. But I believe that if you buy it, that it'll increase in value to $150. So I expect you to pay me $150,so that I can profit off of the risk you're taking.

 

[strictlyrandy]

Even better is the Avs fans... well, let me put the sales pitch like this;

This widget is worth $100 today. But I believe that if you buy it, that it'll increase in value to $150. So I expect you to pay me $150,so that I can profit off of the risk you're taking.

More like we're asking 100 dollars for that widget that is worth 100 dollars and we keep getting told it's only worth 75 dollars AND they want to use a 25 percent off coupon when buying it.

 

[JoemAvs]

Even better is the Avs fans... well, let me put the sales pitch like this;

This widget is worth $100 today. But I believe that if you buy it, that it'll increase in value to $150. So I expect you to pay me $150,so that I can profit off of the risk you're taking.

Terrible analogy.

Better one would be the stockmarket.

Would you sell a share under its current (low) marketprice when you can reasonably expect the price to skyrocket once you have sold it to another company or would you rather demand a price that lies somewhere in the middle between the current value and the expected future value?

The Avs have 0 reason for why they would sell him for less than he is worth.

The truth is that people can bash Duchene all they want. There is a reason why there have been a gazillion Duchene to X.... threads in here.

He is a very good player.
Avs would be stupid to let him go cheaply.

Either someone pays close to the stickerprice (and that price is dependent on the player he is and what he has done in his career and not on the stats column in NHL.com for 2016-2017) or he won't get traded.

I mean if he would be at PPG right now and the Avs a good team, there is no chance in hell a player of his calibre would even be available. Not for 3x as much as gets offered in here...

 

[AslanRH]

Even better is the Avs fans... well, let me put the sales pitch like this;

This widget is worth $100 today. But I believe that if you buy it, that it'll increase in value to $150. So I expect you to pay me $150,so that I can profit off of the risk you're taking.

what is a player who is playing in Juniors/minors worth to the Avs then if you cant use projection as part of the valuation?

Also, to say the Avs don't carry equal risk by taking on any player is just as much a bit of salesmanship. Even if the player they acquire is worth $100 today, that player could arrive in Colorado and become a $75 player.

 

[Bubba Thudd]

Even better is the Avs fans... well, let me put the sales pitch like this;

This widget is worth $100 today. But I believe that if you buy it, that it'll increase in value to $150. So I expect you to pay me $150,so that I can profit off of the risk you're taking.

To continue the analogy...

I have this shiny quarter. It's a special quarter. It's not worth as much today as the widget. But someday it could be worth more than the widget. So I'll give you this special quarter for the widget.

 

[cgf]

Its no deal case anyway, but telling that a club has 0 interest is a pure lie. All 29 clubs would take him

- No stat to present, but he's probably the NHL's best the goal scorer since november
- He has a salary cap of 4.5M$ for 3 years
- He's a leader and a realy genuine person

In fact, shame on any poster who puts him on a trade block since PK's trade

Avs are gunna suck next year n hope to be a young time on the rise two years from now. Players of MaxPac's age will only impact the Avs as mentors and insulation to their youth...that the Avs still need more of. If we got MaxPac for free there would be interest, but the team should have zero interest in giving up any sort of assets for him...never mind one of our best tradechips, who we need to get a top young defensive prospect with.

 

[Fazkovsky]

Avs are gunna suck next year n hope to be a young time on the rise two years from now. Players of MaxPac's age will only impact the Avs as mentors and insulation to their youth...that the Avs still need more of. If we got MaxPac for free there would be interest, but the team should have zero interest in giving up any sort of assets for him...never mind one of our best tradechips, who we need to get a top young defensive prospect with.

I don't understand your logic . PAC is still 28 on a great contract , scores 30-40 a year, is responsible defensively unlike many offensive players and you want him for free?

How can we take you seriously?

 

[trentmccleary]

Terrible analogy.

Better one would be the stockmarket.

Would you sell a share under its current (low) marketprice when you can reasonably expect the price to skyrocket once you have sold it to another company or would you rather demand a price that lies somewhere in the middle between the current value and the expected future value?

The Avs have 0 reason for why they would sell him for less than he is worth.

The truth is that people can bash Duchene all they want. There is a reason why there have been a gazillion Duchene to X.... threads in here.

He is a very good player.
Avs would be stupid to let him go cheaply.

Either someone pays close to the stickerprice (and that price is dependent on the player he is and what he has done in his career and not on the stats column in NHL.com for 2016-2017) or he won't get traded.

I mean if he would be at PPG right now and the Avs a good team, there is no chance in hell a player of his calibre would even be available. Not for 3x as much as gets offered in here...

Then you could easily make a part of the "profit" conditional. If Duchene actually scores 70+ points next year, Avs get a 2nd or something in 2018.

That's not, we have this 55-60 point player and demand the 70+ point player price because he did it once and "we assure you that he'd do it on your team".

 

[cgf]

I don't understand your logic . PAC is still 28 on a great contract , scores 30-40 a year, is responsible defensively unlike many offensive players and you want him for free?

How can we take you seriously?

That wasn't my point at all...

 

[Foppberg]

I don't understand your logic . PAC is still 28 on a great contract , scores 30-40 a year, is responsible defensively unlike many offensive players and you want him for free?

How can we take you seriously?

Dude... How could you possibly have misread what he said that badly.

 

[TopTenPlayz]

Terrible analogy.

Better one would be the stockmarket.

Would you sell a share under its current (low) marketprice when you can reasonably expect the price to skyrocket once you have sold it to another company or would you rather demand a price that lies somewhere in the middle between the current value and the expected future value?

The Avs have 0 reason for why they would sell him for less than he is worth.

The truth is that people can bash Duchene all they want. There is a reason why there have been a gazillion Duchene to X.... threads in here.

He is a very good player.
Avs would be stupid to let him go cheaply.

Either someone pays close to the stickerprice (and that price is dependent on the player he is and what he has done in his career and not on the stats column in NHL.com for 2016-2017) or he won't get traded.

I mean if he would be at PPG right now and the Avs a good team, there is no chance in hell a player of his calibre would even be available. Not for 3x as much as gets offered in here...

There is a reason why he's on the market. The team as a whole (including Duchene) doesn't get the job done. No one is bashing on Duchene like you say they do. At some point, you gotta give the player accountability. The same goes for Landeskog and Mack (in the future). Duchene's had 1 season of 70 points. The lockout year was too small a sample size. The past two years, he ranges in the 50-60 points. However, he's an excellent two way player and is very versatile. Great on faceoffs and can play on the wing and on the pk as well. Reasons why Team Canada chose him to play on their 4th line. Overall, he's probably in the top 20 centers around the league.

I see that most Habs fans agreeing on Sergachev+1st as a basis; hell, some people are even willing to include Scherbak. No one is belittling Duchene. Besides, you're the one that said: "The Avs don't need Pacioretty". Every team would take a 30-40 goal, 60-70 points player especially at a cap hit of 4.5. You should look at yourself in the mirror first. Try to take off your favourite team's glasses and look at things objectively.

 

[JoemAvs]

Then you could easily make a part of the "profit" conditional. If Duchene actually scores 70+ points next year, Avs get a 2nd or something in 2018.

That's not, we have this 55-60 point player and demand the 70+ point player price because he did it once and "we assure you that he'd do it on your team".

That is already the case.

It is called picks and prospects who are a way bigger risk of not panning out than Duchene....



@ Strategize:

The Avs do not need Pacioretty.

We are in for a rebuild. How does giving up anything for Pacioretty fit into that (unless he comes very cheap and can be sold off immediately but that is unlikely and does not make much sense)?

Avs also do not need Shea Weber at all right now. The only thing he would do is worsen our picks and hinder our rebuild.

Did I say that Shea Weber or Max Pacioretty suck?

No. I didn't.

People have to learn to read before they get offended...

 

[Avs44]

I don't understand your logic . PAC is still 28 on a great contract , scores 30-40 a year, is responsible defensively unlike many offensive players and you want him for free?

How can we take you seriously?

Did you read....? How can we take you seriously?

 

[MakeTheGoalsLarger]

Terrible analogy.
The truth is that people can bash Duchene all they want. There is a reason why there have been a gazillion Duchene to X.... threads in here.

there is also a reason why Sergachev keeps being requested so much in trade suggestions and some fans (a lot of Leafs fans for some reason...) try to convince Habs fans that the time is now and they have to trade Sergachev. Face it, you want Sergachev really bad.


I think Bergevin would consider
Sergachev vs Duchene +

 

[tucker3434]

There is a reason why he's on the market. The team as a whole (including Duchene) doesn't get the job done. No one is bashing on Duchene like you say they do. At some point, you gotta give the player accountability. The same goes for Landeskog and Mack (in the future). Duchene's had 1 season of 70 points. The lockout year was too small a sample size. The past two years, he ranges in the 50-60 points. However, he's an excellent two way player and is very versatile. Great on faceoffs and can play on the wing and on the pk as well. Reasons why Team Canada chose him to play on their 4th line. Overall, he's probably in the top 20 centers around the league.

I see that most Habs fans agreeing on Sergachev+1st as a basis; hell, some people are even willing to include Scherbak. No one is belittling Duchene. Besides, you're the one that said: "The Avs don't need Pacioretty". Every team would take a 30-40 goal, 60-70 points player especially at a cap hit of 4.5. You should look at yourself in the mirror first. Try to take off your favourite team's glasses and look at things objectively.

Nobody is saying he's bad. We're saying we wouldn't trade for him.

there is also a reason why Sergachev keeps being requested so much in trade suggestions and some fans (a lot of Leafs fans for some reason...) try to convince Habs fans that the time is now and they have to trade Sergachev. Face it, you want Sergachev really bad.


I think Bergevin would consider
Sergachev vs Duchene +

I bet he would. The Avs would laugh at that.

 

[JoemAvs]

there is also a reason why Sergachev keeps being requested so much in trade suggestions and some fans (a lot of Leafs fans for some reason...) try to convince Habs fans that the time is now and they have to trade Sergachev. Face it, you want Sergachev really bad.


I think Bergevin would consider
Sergachev vs Duchene +

I actually just took some flak on the Avs board for my opinion of Sergachev.

I personally think he is overrated right now and a huge risk . Don't get me wrong. He has major potential but I haven't been impressed at all with him this season. Makes me question a bit if he will ever come close to his potential...

But the truth is that the market for young Ds seems to be complete crap so he is a piece I would "settle" for.


But believe me. I wouldn't be excited about getting Sergachev in return for Duchene. The only reason I might be ok with it is that some of the other rumors or proposals are way worse....


That + after Duchene is hilarious, though .

I wouldn't even consider him at all if not a 1st + a decent prospect is coming also the Avs way...

 

[Goulet17]

there is also a reason why Sergachev keeps being requested so much in trade suggestions and some fans (a lot of Leafs fans for some reason...) try to convince Habs fans that the time is now and they have to trade Sergachev. Face it, you want Sergachev really bad.


I think Bergevin would consider
Sergachev vs Duchene +

It seems to me that you can easily apply the same logic to Duchene by just substituting the name Duchene for Sergachev in your post.

 

[Major Happy*]

Sergachev has a ceiling of a number 4 d-man.

Soooo overrated.

 

[Avs44]

there is also a reason why Sergachev keeps being requested so much in trade suggestions and some fans (a lot of Leafs fans for some reason...) try to convince Habs fans that the time is now and they have to trade Sergachev. Face it, you want Sergachev really bad.


I think Bergevin would consider
Sergachev vs Duchene +

Not really. I don't think I've ever seen an Avs fan make a proposal in which they specifically target Sergachev and just Sergachev. It's Habs fans making proposals for Duchene, and Avs fans unsurprisingly asking for the best defensive prospect they can get. I have no personal care for Sergachev and Sergachev alone whatsoever, there are other defense prospects and returns like Chabot that I find preferable. If Duchene gets traded and its not to Montreal and therefore no Sergachev, I really won't be bothered in the slightest.


Also, that + after Duchene is just adorable.

 

[MakeTheGoalsLarger]

It seems to me that you can easily apply the same logic to Duchene by just substituting the name Duchene for Sergachev in your post.

Well, if you read the post I quoted, it makes sense.

 

[le_sean]

Fine, I guess we'll keep our 26 year old 30-goal scorer, and you guys can find another available player of his caliber.





I'll wait.

Okay then your team can continue not improving and become the new Oilers sans McDavid.