Dreger: Duchene Mega-thread: Habs, NSH inquired about Duchene. Asking price is ridiculous.

[le_sean]

Sergachev has a ceiling of a number 4 d-man.

Soooo overrated.

Sure. He's not even 19 yet and he's still playing like the best defenceman in the OHL.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

from eklund

."The deal on the table is Muzzin and #1 prospect Kempe for Matt Duchene and Francois Beauchemin...The Avalanche want LoDue.... but he is untouchable"

 

[dogbazinho]

lol, can't imagine Avs will be happy with that return.

 

[Foppberg]

lol, can't imagine Avs will be happy with that return.

Good thing it's Eklund then

 

[Dr Quincy]

Of course he is the same player he has always been. Poile knows this. Sakic knows this. The Preds have a professional scouting report on Duchene and a pretty good idea what kind of player he is.

Trade board on hfboards? Not so much.

If you don't put up the points because of circumstances that are not under your control, you get crazily underrated.

Just like Duchene is in here.

Scouting 101. Numbers matter only so much.

Duchene has shown that he can produce in this league under the right circumstances aka being on a winning team (and even then we had a bottom 5 D) and not on the trainwreck that has been the Avs for quite some time now (we really weren't good under Roy either. We just had great goaltending and not as much key injuries as right now).

There are no reasons really why he shouldn't produce more on a good NSH team than on a terrible Avs team.

There were no major injuries really that could have slowed him down and his top seasons weren't a fluke like with some other players.

Poile knows this. Sakic knows this. Hfboards? Not so much.


Duchene has been an elite 5vs5 producer since the lockout. I think he is top10 in that regard since the lockout.
Problem is that the Avs have been terrible on the PP and Duchene hasn't scored enough there to make his numbers look better.

Poile knows this. Sakic knows this. hfboards? Not so much.


That is why this gets brought up repeatedly.

Duchene is severely underrated atleast judging by most proposals in here.

That is a valid topic when it comes to discussing trade value...

That's so awesome. He's so good he's just on a bad team. And Ej is so good, but he's just on a bad team. And Rantanen is so good, but he's just on a bad team. And Landeskog is so good, but he's just on a bad team. And Barrie is so good, he's just on a bad team. And MacKinnon is so good, but he's just on a bad team.

There's a disconnect here that I'm sure you'll find if you think hard enough about it.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Habs fans have convinced themselves Sergachev is a franchise dman in waiting. The fact you dont want to trade him for duchene is laughable

 

[tucker3434]

That's so awesome. He's so good he's just on a bad team. And Ej is so good, but he's just on a bad team. And Rantanen is so good, but he's just on a bad team. And Landeskog is so good, but he's just on a bad team. And Barrie is so good, he's just on a bad team. And MacKinnon is so good, but he's just on a bad team.

There's a disconnect here that I'm sure you'll find if you think hard enough about it.

EJ isn't playing and this historically bad slump started almost exactly when he broke his leg. Rantanen has been pretty meh, but he's 19. Zadorov has been up and down, just turned 21. MacKinnon, Duchene, Barrie, and Landeskog are pretty much the only guys that regularly produce anything on the team. They've been good, but obviously not good enough to carry the offense by themselves. Everyone else on the team has been total ass. Recent waiver fodder Matt Nieto might be the next best player after those mentioned above. That matters a lot.

 

[nmbr_24]

Only two players in the NHL have scored more goals than Pacioretty over the last five years. Ovechkin and Pavelski. I'm not sure why Pacioretty is so underrated, and I know 50/90 is unrealistic for anyone besides Ovechkin, but we're talking about one of the elite goalscorers in the NHL here.

As for Duchene being better on Nashville, that's highly debatable. Its not like Duchene plays with scrubs in Colorado, he doesn't really play incredibly tough minutes and he gets in general a more favourable zone start push relative to his team. And while Colorado isn't producing, Duchene and his linemates do what you can reasonably expect them to.

I don't see how any team is going to give Duchene better linemates, and most aren't going to give him more favourable minutes either. And he's definitely not going to get the same TOI or prime scoring positions on a deeper team like Nashville (or Montreal).

Obviously he could be better on a better team, since he also wont target #1, but its more like a crapshoot than a slam dunk.


Counterproposal. We keep Segachev and a +, then trade the ++ to another team. You try to trade Duchene to another team.

I am pretty sure Stamkos scored more goals during that time too.

 

[The Great Weal]

Habs fans have convinced themselves Sergachev is a franchise dman in waiting. The fact you dont want to trade him for duchene is laughable

When Markov retires there is nobody available.

 

[Dr Quincy]

EJ isn't playing and this historically bad slump started almost exactly when he broke his leg. Rantanen has been pretty meh, but he's 19. Zadorov has been up and down, just turned 21. MacKinnon, Duchene, Barrie, and Landeskog are pretty much the only guys that regularly produce anything on the team. They've been good, but obviously not good enough to carry the offense by themselves. Everyone else on the team has been total ass. Recent waiver fodder Matt Nieto might be the next best player after those mentioned above. That matters a lot.

It does matter. Having little depth is why the Avalanche aren't a top 15 team.

But the reason why they are a bottom 5 team is that their top line players, including Landeskog and Duchene, aren't good enough.

 

[MakeTheGoalsLarger]

Habs fans have convinced themselves Sergachev is a franchise dman in waiting. The fact you dont want to trade him for duchene is laughable

You mean fans from other teams have conviced Habs fans that Sergachev is a franchise dman.

He's gotta be special since you can't stop asking for him.

 

[General Fanager]

Habs fans have convinced themselves Sergachev is a franchise dman in waiting. The fact you dont want to trade him for duchene is laughable

meh...if they did deal Sergachev for him then you would be in here laughing because they did.

Any excuse to hate on The Habs

 

[tucker3434]

It does matter. Having little depth is why the Avalanche aren't a top 15 team.

But the reason why they are a bottom 5 team is that their top line players, including Landeskog and Duchene, aren't good enough.

I think you've got it backwards. There have been a lot of great players on bottom 5 teams. They just have zero support.

I'm not saying this team would be fine if they just had depth. They do lack the one elite player all true contenders have. They don't have a driver. That's very important. But if they did have one, the rest of the guys would be more than fine for their roles.

 

[Coach Parker]

Of course he is the same player he has always been. Poile knows this. Sakic knows this. The Preds have a professional scouting report on Duchene and a pretty good idea what kind of player he is.

Trade board on hfboards? Not so much.

If you don't put up the points because of circumstances that are not under your control, you get crazily underrated.

Just like Duchene is in here.

Scouting 101. Numbers matter only so much.

Duchene has shown that he can produce in this league under the right circumstances aka being on a winning team (and even then we had a bottom 5 D) and not on the trainwreck that has been the Avs for quite some time now (we really weren't good under Roy either. We just had great goaltending and not as much key injuries as right now).

There are no reasons really why he shouldn't produce more on a good NSH team than on a terrible Avs team.

There were no major injuries really that could have slowed him down and his top seasons weren't a fluke like with some other players.

Poile knows this. Sakic knows this. Hfboards? Not so much.


Duchene has been an elite 5vs5 producer since the lockout. I think he is top10 in that regard since the lockout.
Problem is that the Avs have been terrible on the PP and Duchene hasn't scored enough there to make his numbers look better.

Poile knows this. Sakic knows this. hfboards? Not so much.


That is why this gets brought up repeatedly.

Duchene is severely underrated atleast judging by most proposals in here.

That is a valid topic when it comes to discussing trade value...

I get your point. Problem is that you made one mistake:

HFBoards members don't know value of a player. I do.

Signed,

HFBoards Member

 

[JoemAvs]

That's so awesome. He's so good he's just on a bad team. And Ej is so good, but he's just on a bad team. And Rantanen is so good, but he's just on a bad team. And Landeskog is so good, but he's just on a bad team. And Barrie is so good, he's just on a bad team. And MacKinnon is so good, but he's just on a bad team.

There's a disconnect here that I'm sure you'll find if you think hard enough about it.

Just proves that you know nothing about the Avs.

The guys at the top are not the problem. They are not McDavid that can carry a team alone but that is no shame. We wouldn't even listen to trade calls if they were.


Problem is the rest of the mess who are epically worthless.


Funny that you bring up EJ. Avs go from below average - bad to epically bad right after he gets injured but apparantely he still sucks according to you.


But yeah. Not the first time I am shaking my head when it comes to you commenting on the Avalanche....

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

from eklund

."The deal on the table is Muzzin and #1 prospect Kempe for Matt Duchene and Francois Beauchemin...The Avalanche want LoDue.... but he is untouchable"

So much for bluechip D-prospect. Oh wait, it's Eklund.

 

[HabsFan1994]

Has Eklund ever been right about a rumor he stated?

 

[Coach Parker]

Only two players in the NHL have scored more goals than Pacioretty over the last five years. Ovechkin and Pavelski. I'm not sure why Pacioretty is so underrated, and I know 50/90 is unrealistic for anyone besides Ovechkin, but we're talking about one of the elite goalscorers in the NHL here.

As for Duchene being better on Nashville, that's highly debatable. Its not like Duchene plays with scrubs in Colorado, he doesn't really play incredibly tough minutes and he gets in general a more favourable zone start push relative to his team. And while Colorado isn't producing, Duchene and his linemates do what you can reasonably expect them to.

I don't see how any team is going to give Duchene better linemates, and most aren't going to give him more favourable minutes either. And he's definitely not going to get the same TOI or prime scoring positions on a deeper team like Nashville (or Montreal).

Obviously he could be better on a better team, since he also wont target #1, but its more like a crapshoot than a slam dunk.


Counterproposal. We keep Segachev and a +, then trade the ++ to another team. You try to trade Duchene to another team.

Really?

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

Matt Duchene is easily worth a blue chip d-prospect+. There should be no debate here. The right move is for Sakic to test the market for both Duchene and Landeskog to get this and this alone - they're not going anywhere until the get a future on the back-end. Unless they get that kind of offer, then they just continue to suck and draft one on their own.

 

[HabsFan1994]

really?

View attachment 93757

Edit: That picture is for ants...but yeah, 1st is Ovechkin with 211 goals, then Pavelski with 149 and then Pacioretty with 145.

 

[ThirdManIn]

Has Eklund ever been right about a rumor he stated?

Rarely. He was correct about the Forsberg trade way back when (Peter, not Filip). I want to say maybe he called the Johansen/Jones swap, though that one was pretty obvious. He seems to have some kind of connections in Philly and Nashville at least, but I don't tend to trust anything he says about any other team (and I take anything he says about Nashville and Philly with a spoonful of salt).

 

[Coach Parker]

View attachment 93757

Edit: That picture is for ants...but yeah, 1st is Ovechkin with 211 goals, then Pavelski with 149 and then Pacioretty with 145.

Thanks. I knew he was top five and he is really close with Kane, Tavares, Stamkos and Benn all right there this year.

 

[HabsFan1994]

Yeah well every trade is a risk.

But the case for Duchene producing way more in NSH IMO is way more convincing than that the one that says that he would not.

That has nothing to do with speculation. It is simply projecting a likely outcome.


I mean Ekholm + Fabbro + 1st is a terrible offer if we apply your logic.

Because Fabbro + 1st turning into useful NHL players right now is just merely speculation.

Might as well assume they will be busts and value them at 0.

Is that reasonable?
No.

Is it reasonable to assume that Duchene would only score 50 points for a good team?
No.




I am not sure that he would have a career year. I mean he basically already had a PPG season (got hurt in game 71 2 mins in).

But IMO he would absolutely be in contention for being your best forward all things considered. Who knows what that means numberswise.

Don't really care.

Its just laughable that people throw out RNH and Bozak comparisons just because the Numbers on an epically bad team that hasn't been good for a while and is a complete trainwreck right now are not good enough...

I think Pete Laviolette would leave Johansen on the first line and put Duchene on the second line. He'd have Austin Watson and Craig Smith for wingers (They're the 2nd line wingers as of February 4th, 2017, aka today).

On the other hand, he'd be 1st line center in Montreal, with Max Pacioretty and the power house that is Alexander Radulov. Tell me how he'd produce more in Country City than in Habs Land

 

[Balthazar]

I think Pete Laviolette would leave Johansen on the first line and put Duchene on the second line. He'd have Austin Watson and Craig Smith for wingers (They're the 2nd line wingers as of February 4th, 2017, aka today).

On the other hand, he'd be 1st line center in Montreal, with Max Pacioretty and the power house that is Alexander Radulov. Tell me how he'd produce more in Country City than in Habs Land

Duchene would be 1C on both teams.

 

[HabsFan1994]

Thanks. I knew he was top five and he is really close with Kane, Tavares, Stamkos and Benn all right there this year.

you're very welcome. He's in that elite scoring club, while being almost all these years with David "The Great" Desharnais as center. Imagine if he had a real competent center, he'd be 2nd and closer to Ovechkin.