Dreger: Duchene Mega-thread: Habs, NSH inquired about Duchene. Asking price is ridiculous.

[HOPE]

Nuge + Kelfbom

for

Barrie + Duchene

Honestly, that could be very smart for both parties.
But you gotta keep draisaitl on the rw for years and will get cap trouble soon.

Props on the prosposal tho!

And the beaulieu, dd, ghetto, 1st is laughable. MB would be named dumbledore.

 

[popo123]

Can Duchene play wing by the way?

 

[IranCondraAffair]

Isn't this what he got for O'Reilly?
Zadorov(Young high potential Dman), Grigorenko (Young player/Prospect), Compher (Solid Prospect), 31st overall(Not a 1st but close enough)

What's unreasonable about his ask when Duchene is signed at 6M and is the better player?

A lot of the shine had worn off Zadorov. Grigorenko had issues but was a solid NHLer. Compher was just a decent prospect.

Plus the Avs caved on the 1st rounder they wanted.

A similar package from a team like Montreal right now would be something like Juulsen + Artturi Lehkonen + Scherbak + late 1st. I doubt the Avs would be happy with that for Duchene, though I'm not sure how much more he could get than ROR.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Can Duchene play wing by the way?

Yes, he can play all 3 positions but LW isn't really his thing. He's a great C or RW.

 

[Dishface]

If the asking price is Hanifin, 1st, and a roster player, hopefully Francis stays away. Hanifin for Duchene is risky enough and a lot of canes fans are mixed about it. Add in a first AND a roster player would be too much, but may be not if that roster player is something like PDG. The canes will probably just sell off Fleury instead then if we are going to make a Dmen-forward deal.

 

[CodeE]

The Avs are counting on some serious rebounds if they are going to make that deal. That would be a boom or bust deal. Either a huge win with the talent those players bring or Sakic is out of a jump real quick.

Most teams will likely want to pony up similar young assets. Avs get a young defenseman as well as a forward replacement, so if it works out they can address their depth issues.

But after last year's fiasco with Hamonic (which I recall several Avs posters making lowball offers of their own for Travis...) I get the "either meet our price or we're not trading him" mindset.

Still think the Islanders have the assets to get it done without giving up Barzal, Hamonic, or Leddy. Then again all it takes is another team to panic and meet Sakic's demands and it's game over on getting JT his winger.

 

[Drew311]

Based on the Taylor Hall/Ryan Johansen deals, Colorado will get a good young defenseman back. 1 for 1.

Now if that defenseman isn't as established as say a Larsson/Jones, that's where the plus should come in (i.e. late 1st/early 2nd).

 

[popo123]

Yes, he can play all 3 positions but LW isn't really his thing. He's a great C or RW.

Thank you!

 

[AMDZen]

The difference between Duchene and Gallagher shouldn't be Sergachev tho. If Sergachev is included in the deal, I wouldn't include Gallagher in it.

Sergachev + Shaw + McCarron + Desharnais then.

Fair enough, but I would say it's no longer enough and we need your first round pick added or a prospect of equal value. Although if nothing better came along it's possible this gets it done around the draft instead. But then habs don't get to dump DD and add Duchene for a cup run.

Can Duchene play wing by the way?

Definitely. Very well in fact.

However if you look at his face off percentage I think you would be crazy not to take advantage of that come playoffs

 

[cgf]

Are all those 20 teams able to spend to the cap limit? Are their respective owners going to take a $6mill player whom they have to pay at the expense of a cost-controlled young Dman and future 1st round pick?

I guess that is the big question.

I honestly don't think Montreal has the assets available to do the deal that Sakic wants. They are not in a position to move Sergachev since he will replace Markov(they hope), and their prospect pool is rather thin.

TDL deals are mostly made to add to a team for a cup run but Duchesne is a different ballgame since he has term.

I just think if he does get moved it will be at the draft.

Sergachev isn't replacing Markov this season or next, so he isn't gunna help them during this cup window; Duchene would.

This makes the most sense...that being said, the Avs organization and their fans, have to be OK with finishing last for the next two to three seasons, if he is not going to use his offensive chips, to help out the D corps...it seems like something is way off in Colorado these days...how quick does the turnaround have to be?
In some ways, Sakic is not dealing from a strong point...

Avs will suck next year as well no matter what. So there's no rush to make this deal.

You can see from my previous post that I agree that Sakic isn't in a hurry and he might end up having to keep Duchene till his contract expires.

That said... there are other ways to generate interest and drive up the price as well. Sakic has options to maximize Duchene's market value, but he can't arbitrarily set the market based on his expectations. Sakic is not hemmed into waiting for someone to get desperate and match his price. He can set a deadline and force things.

If Duchene does get hurt, continues to decline, requests a trade, sits out, or signs elsewhere in a few years and leaves for nothing, Sakic will, rightly, receive criticism for failing to trade while he had the chance. This is a dynamic situation with a lot of moving parts that are outside Sakic's control. There is a lot of possibilities where waiting ends up as the wrong call. Sakic is making a gamble by waiting, even if it ends up being a smart gamble now, it could look stupid in the near future. Plenty of teams miss windows to trade players and regret it.

People won't care that the deals weren't great, they will only know teams had a lot of interest and Sakic didn't move him for market value. There is a downside to this strategy.

Continues to decline? Duchene just had his best or second best season last year, and if he gets traded to a better team he'll top 30 goals again as he's on pace to come close on this disastru-f*** of a team.

 

[Kamiccolo]

So by that, it would be

Rielly + 2nd + Bracco

for

Duchene

Yeah....

Get real dude. No one is paying that for a 60 - 70 point forward who doesn't play defense well and is really just a good offensive piece. He is Kessel as a center. No one will win a cup with him as their #1 C.

Stupid price, he won't get close to that.

 

[popo123]

Fair enough, but I would say it's no longer enough and we need your first round pick added or a prospect of equal value.

Come up with a complete counter offer

 

[SupremeTeam16]

I know a lot of Avs fans will live in denial but the parallels between the Avalanche and the Oilers from 2 years ago are pretty interesting. Oilers should be a cautionary tail for them and the first thing they should do is gut their front office and coaching staff and replace them with experienced personnel. The year before the McDavid draft Bob Nicholson was hired around Christmas time and he had Mactavish fire Eakins almost immediately and then basically put a freeze on him making any drastic moves to prevent him from doing anymore damage. As soon as the season was over they shuffled Katz old boys like Lowe, McTavish, Buchberger to the outskirts and Chiarelli was hired and he fired basically the entire scouting staff and restructured the front office with his guys.


Just off the top of my head:

- GM and POHO who is an ex player and has no front office experience.
- Rookie coach who was good in AHL but has no NHL experience and is in way over his head.
- A forward core consisting of some nice pieces.
- Garbage blue line that lacking at least 2 top 4 players.
- Worst team in the league with horrible GF and GA numbers.

A lot of Oilers fans would always pull out the "if we can't get the deal we want then we will just keep them". Problem was the team just kept being crap, the losing wore on the players and they became less engaged and other teams knew the Oilers desperation was growing and the offers only got worse.

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

Whats ridiculous is GMs using the media to gain leverage in negotiations while fans eat the message up in a vacuum.

 

[EdAVSfan]

So by that, it would be

Rielly + 2nd + Bracco

for

Duchene

Yeah....

Get real dude. No one is paying that for a 60 - 70 point forward who doesn't play defense well and is really just a good offensive piece. He is Kessel as a center. No one will win a cup with him as their #1 C.

Stupid price, he won't get close to that.

I mean, I have to think you're smart enough to know that not all dmen have the same value and therefore would not be the same package across the board.

For a pure defensive prospect, more than likely the price.

For an established guy, well... depends on the guy. Obviously the deal is completely different if it's reilly or beaulieu.

Then again, maybe you're right. Maybe sakic is asking for Erik karlsson, dzingle and a 1st.

Cmon. A little bit of common sense.

 

[AvsGuy]

Hanifin for Duchene is risky enough and a lot of canes fans are mixed about it.

I think I have a different defintion of "risky" than most of the rest of these boards. If Hanifin were your only solid defensive prospect, that would be risky. When you have a plethora of good young defensemen, trading one is not a risk. Trading from a position of strength is not what risky means.

 

[Breakers]

I'm gonna go with a hunch and say Sergachev for Duchene is going to be the trade.

 

[Muffin]

So by that, it would be

Rielly + 2nd + Bracco

for

Duchene

Yeah....

Get real dude. No one is paying that for a 60 - 70 point forward who doesn't play defense well and is really just a good offensive piece. He is Kessel as a center. No one will win a cup with him as their #1 C.

Stupid price, he won't get close to that.

That's how you know someone who has never seen Duchene play. I don't blame you, it's probably past your bed time when Avs game come on. You really think someone who's poor on defense would get a Selke vote and be playing on team Canada's 3rd/4th line?

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

So by that, it would be

Rielly + 2nd + Bracco

for

Duchene

Yeah....

Get real dude. No one is paying that for a 60 - 70 point forward who doesn't play defense well and is really just a good offensive piece. He is Kessel as a center. No one will win a cup with him as their #1 C.

Stupid price, he won't get close to that.

What?

 

[twostroke27]

I know a lot of Avs fans will live in denial but the parallels between the Avalanche and the Oilers from 2 years ago are pretty interesting. Oilers should be a cautionary tail for them and the first thing they should do is gut their front office and coaching staff and replace them with experienced personnel. The year before the McDavid draft Bob Nicholson was hired around Christmas time and he had Mactavish fire Eakins almost immediately and then basically put a freeze on him making any drastic moves to prevent him from doing anymore damage. As soon as the season was over they shuffled Katz old boys like Lowe, McTavish, Buchberger to the outskirts and Chiarelli was hired and he fired basically the entire scouting staff and restructured the front office with his guys.


Just off the top of my head:

- GM and POHO who is an ex player and has no front office experience.
- Rookie coach who was good in AHL but has no NHL experience and is in way over his head.
- A forward core consisting of some nice pieces.
- Garbage blue line that lacking at least 2 top 4 players.
- Worst team in the league with horrible GF and GA numbers.

A lot of Oilers fans would always pull out the "if we can't get the deal we want then we will just keep them". Problem was the team just kept being crap, the losing wore on the players and they became less engaged and other teams knew the Oilers desperation was growing and the offers only got worse.

I don't think we are living in denial. Fact is the avs are the oilers without a Mcdavid in sight.

 

[Habs Halifax]

LOL WHAT? GMTM admitted that he had not had any discussions with ROR or his agent prior to the trade.

Solid effort though.

haha... You believe everything you hear that is reported right?

 

[me2]

Sounds like his plan is wait until summer gives him Seth Jones equivalent ++. I wish him luck, guys that level come onto the market very rarely, He might be waiting a while,

 

[EdAVSfan]

haha... You believe everything you hear that is reported right?

It's probably better than your behind the scenes back door deal that hasn't been reported or mentioned anywhere.

 

[twostroke27]

haha... You believe everything you hear that is reported right?

No, we all believe a random message board idea instead, it's much more reliable

 

[Not Sure]

So by that, it would be

Rielly + 2nd + Bracco

for

Duchene

Yeah....

Get real dude. No one is paying that for a 60 - 70 point forward who doesn't play defense well and is really just a good offensive piece. He is Kessel as a center. No one will win a cup with him as their #1 C.

Stupid price, he won't get close to that.

I admit I don't watch the Avs all that often, but "doesn't play defense well and is really just a good offensive piece" is not an accurate description of Duchene at all. Maybe you were thinking of MacKinnon?