Dreger: Duchene Mega-thread: Habs, NSH inquired about Duchene. Asking price is ridiculous.

[Little Psycho]

Not sure how this is really news.


Sakic is the one who holds all the cards in this situation. If we dont get the offer we like, we're just as easy to keep Duchene. It's not like Duchene has requested a trade or the Avs are desperate for a major move. Something needs to happen eventually but it doesn't have to happen today or tomorrow.


Sounds to me like Sakic is playing hardball like he should and other GM's dont like the fact that it isn't easy for them to acquire a premier player in the league.

There's nothing wrong with what he's doing. Either some team will get desperate and fold, or all interested teams will stand pat.

As a Kings fan, I would love Duchene but I do not think it will be wise to trade for him- it will create more holes.

 

[Rorschach]

Better they laugh at your ask than what they paid.

 

[FireBurningBin]

How can you even put those two young dmen in the same sentence?

Because they are both """"good"""", young, and play defence. They obviously have significantly different trade value.

 

[Stormcrow]

I understand. But there are plenty of teams who can absorb 6 mil over the next two years. Not to mention having an entire offseason of creating space. Not to mention with an expansion draft where you're automatically going to lose a player.

Sure, some teams may not fit him. But I'd say more than 20 teams can afford his contract for 2 years following this one, or at least comfortably create space.

Are all those 20 teams able to spend to the cap limit? Are their respective owners going to take a $6mill player whom they have to pay at the expense of a cost-controlled young Dman and future 1st round pick?

I guess that is the big question.

I honestly don't think Montreal has the assets available to do the deal that Sakic wants. They are not in a position to move Sergachev since he will replace Markov(they hope), and their prospect pool is rather thin.

TDL deals are mostly made to add to a team for a cup run but Duchesne is a different ballgame since he has term.

I just think if he does get moved it will be at the draft.

 

[BLONG7]

Not sure how this is really news.


Sakic is the one who holds all the cards in this situation. If we dont get the offer we like, we're just as easy to keep Duchene. It's not like Duchene has requested a trade or the Avs are desperate for a major move. Something needs to happen eventually but it doesn't have to happen today or tomorrow.



Sounds to me like Sakic is playing hardball like he should and other GM's dont like the fact that it isn't easy for them to acquire a premier player in the league.

This makes the most sense...that being said, the Avs organization and their fans, have to be OK with finishing last for the next two to three seasons, if he is not going to use his offensive chips, to help out the D corps...it seems like something is way off in Colorado these days...how quick does the turnaround have to be?
In some ways, Sakic is not dealing from a strong point...

 

[twostroke27]

Honestly, that ask looks pretty reasonable to me. Duchene is a #1C signed for another 2 years after this. Too bad the Sharks are out on this because I think we don't really have any D-man in the system that meets that requirement(s).

This. I can't seem all that many GMs calling that ridiculous either. Realistically all the avs are asking for is a roster player, a late first and a prospect. Ryan Orielly pulled that in and he was a pure RFA with no contract and a history of negotiating tough. Granted, Zadorov may not have been a A+ prospect, but he was looked very highly upon.

 

[VanJack]

Just can't see Duchense moving prior to the deadline....no playoff-bound team is in a position to hollow-out their roster to acquire him; and then there's the cap-strapped teams who can't take on salary.

An impact player like Duchense almost always moves in the off-season....closer to July 1st is my guess.

 

[AMDZen]

A second pairing defensman, a very late 1st round pick, plus a cap dump and player who passed through waivers for a signed 26 year old top line forward.


"You're dreaming if you think you'll get more!!!"

I'm so glad we got another article on Duchene for HF board users to flood another thread full of terrible Duchene trade proposals.

I'm pretty sure these proposals get worse to spite avalanche fans. Easily the step children in the HF world. Proof can be found because this has been going on for more than 4 years = Stastny, RoR and now Duchene. Guaranteed to continue with MacKinnon shortly

 

[EdAVSfan]

Are all those 20 teams able to spend to the cap limit? Are their respective owners going to take a $6mill player whom they have to pay at the expense of a cost-controlled young Dman and future 1st round pick?

I guess that is the big question.

I honestly don't think Montreal has the assets available to do the deal that Sakic wants. They are not in a position to move Sergachev since he will replace Markov(they hope), and their prospect pool is rather thin.

TDL deals are mostly made to add to a team for a cup run but Duchesne is a different ballgame since he has term.

I just think if he does get moved it will be at the draft.

I'm in agreement with you. I also believe at the draft is when a deal takes place.

Also, in most cases, I'd expect the avs to be taking back some form of top 9 player, who could have term. So it's not necessarily a full 6M that needs to be added. There will more than likely be salary going the other way.

 

[janesy12]

Beaulieu + DD + Ghetto + 1st vs Duchene ... then dream Sakic to get something higher ... you won't ...

2nd pairing dman, a terrible cap dump, a waiver passing tweener and a pick in the late 20's, for a 1st line centre, olympic and world cup champ.

Leafs will offer you Carrick, Bozak, Leivo + 1st for Galchenyuk.
Fair?

 

[IranCondraAffair]

Not sure how this is really news.


Sakic is the one who holds all the cards in this situation. If we dont get the offer we like, we're just as easy to keep Duchene. It's not like Duchene has requested a trade or the Avs are desperate for a major move. Something needs to happen eventually but it doesn't have to happen today or tomorrow.



Sounds to me like Sakic is playing hardball like he should and other GM's dont like the fact that it isn't easy for them to acquire a premier player in the league.

You can see from my previous post that I agree that Sakic isn't in a hurry and he might end up having to keep Duchene till his contract expires.

That said... there are other ways to generate interest and drive up the price as well. Sakic has options to maximize Duchene's market value, but he can't arbitrarily set the market based on his expectations. Sakic is not hemmed into waiting for someone to get desperate and match his price. He can set a deadline and force things.

If Duchene does get hurt, continues to decline, requests a trade, sits out, or signs elsewhere in a few years and leaves for nothing, Sakic will, rightly, receive criticism for failing to trade while he had the chance. This is a dynamic situation with a lot of moving parts that are outside Sakic's control. There is a lot of possibilities where waiting ends up as the wrong call. Sakic is making a gamble by waiting, even if it ends up being a smart gamble now, it could look stupid in the near future. Plenty of teams miss windows to trade players and regret it.

People won't care that the deals weren't great, they will only know teams had a lot of interest and Sakic didn't move him for market value. There is a downside to this strategy.

 

[Muffin]

Isn't this what he got for O'Reilly?
Zadorov(Young high potential Dman), Grigorenko (Young player/Prospect), Compher (Solid Prospect), 31st overall(Not a 1st but close enough)

What's unreasonable about his ask when Duchene is signed at 6M and is the better player?

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

Columbus should offer Dubois, Milano, Jack Johnson and 1st 2017

Should get it done in no time.

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

It's too bad that Detroit have a lot of washed up older players and the rest are a bunch of lower end players with a few that are in a higher class than the rest.

I would love him in a winged wheel.

 

[Stormcrow]

I'm in agreement with you. I also believe at the draft is when a deal takes place.

Also, in most cases, I'd expect the avs to be taking back some form of top 9 player, who could have term. So it's not necessarily a full 6M that needs to be added. There will more than likely be salary going the other way.

Agreed. The thing is too that Sakic has the upper hand since he doesn't have to move him now at all. He is fishing to see which team will pay what he wants for them to have a cup run, or he just sits and waits.

I could see the Islanders making a move but in the offseason. They want someone to play with JT and have the assets to make it happen.

NYI ownership has the money but I don't know if they are willing to spend to the cap.

 

[twostroke27]

Isn't this what he got for O'Reilly?
Zadorov(Young high potential Dman), Grigorenko (Young player/Prospect), Compher (Solid Prospect), 31st overall(Not a 1st but close enough)

What's unreasonable about his ask when Duchene is signed at 6M and is the better player?

I feel like I'm in the twilight zone here. I can't not for the life of me figure out what that is so hilarious. It's a pretty reasonable asking price. I was half expecting the ask to be a number one dman and a top prospect when I saw the title. I left that article thinking: that's a pretty reasonable asking price for Duchene actually.

 

[AMDZen]

Honestly, that ask looks pretty reasonable to me. Duchene is a #1C signed for another 2 years after this. Too bad the Sharks are out on this because I think we don't really have any D-man in the system that meets that requirement(s).

There's nothing wrong with what he's doing. Either some team will get desperate and fold, or all interested teams will stand pat.

As a Kings fan, I would love Duchene but I do not think it will be wise to trade for him- it will create more holes.

It's so great to see at least a couple fans in avalanche fans corner. I think there is a reason for you two both being California team fans. More than one really but most of all I imagine you have actually seen Duchene play games and this becomes evident with your very rational opinions.

Thanks guys, I truly mean it when I say that your posts matter in the face of so much irrational thought, and almost hate fueled Duchene proposal threads.

 

[popo123]

How about Beaulieu + Gallagher + McCarron + Desharnais (cap dump) for Duchene + Comeau? How's the value? Any counter offer with Sergachev from Avs fans?

Here are the Stats for the last 3 years for the following players :
Gallagher : 49-56-105 in 174 games (0.60 ppg)
Duchene : 66-77-143 in 201 games (0.71 ppg)
Landeskog : 52-77-129 in 195 games (0.66 ppg)

 

[MakeTheGoalsLarger]

2nd pairing dman, a terrible cap dump, a waiver passing tweener and a pick in the late 20's, for a 1st line centre, olympic and world cup champ.

Leafs will offer you Carrick, Bozak, Leivo + 1st for Galchenyuk.
Fair?

it's fair but Galchenyuk isn't available. You should offer that for Duchene

 

[Stephen]

At this point, the Avs should probably just keep Duchene, unless there's some personal issue.

You're not getting good value, his stock is at an all time low, and you only pull the chute on him if you plan on spending the next 3-4 years tanking. Though that may be a good course of action too.

 

[Habitant le colon]

I'm so glad we got another article on Duchene for HF board users to flood another thread full of terrible Duchene trade proposals.

I'm pretty sure these proposals get worse to spite avalanche fans. Easily the step children in the HF world. Proof can be found because this has been going on for more than 4 years = Stastny, RoR and now Duchene. Guaranteed to continue with MacKinnon shortly

Nha not MacKinnon will go after Landeskog instead because the media will go after him as they being going around every single possibilities in the league and linking it to the habs or the leafs to gain clics .....

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

This. I can't seem all that many GMs calling that ridiculous either. Realistically all the avs are asking for is a roster player, a late first and a prospect. Ryan Orielly pulled that in and he was a pure RFA with no contract and a history of negotiating tough. Granted, Zadorov may not have been a A+ prospect, but he was looked very highly upon.

Yah. I think the issue with HF is that a lot of people over value picks and prospects over players that are really good right now. For Duchene I would totally give up something like:

2017 1st round pick
2018 1st round pick
Pick any one of our D prospects
Pick any one of our F prospects (not Meier or Labanc)
Dillon or Ward will need to go back to make the cap work.

Jeremy Roy would have fit the bill as a really good D prospect if he was healthy. But too many injuries so early in his career would make him a very unattractive piece.

And, I would honestly be even willing to give up one of Meier or Labanc as well but the rest of the package will need to be modified accordingly.

 

[AMDZen]

How about Beaulieu + Gallagher + McCarron + Desharnais (cap dump) for Duchene + Comeau? How's the value? Any counter offer with Sergachev from Avs fans?

Here are the Stats for the last 3 years for the following players :
Gallagher : 49-56-105 in 174 games (0.60 ppg)
Duchene : 66-77-143 in 201 games (0.71 ppg)
Landeskog : 52-77-129 in 195 games (0.66 ppg)

All you need to do is swap Sergachev in for Beaulieu. A trade framework that has already been established many, many times in the last few months of Duchene proposals with habs fans

 

[popo123]

All you need to do is swap Sergachev in for Beaulieu. A trade framework that has already been established many, many times in the last few months of Duchene proposals with habs fans

The difference between Duchene and Gallagher shouldn't be Sergachev tho. If Sergachev is included in the deal, I wouldn't include Gallagher in it.

Sergachev + Shaw + McCarron + Desharnais then.

 

[janesy12]

2nd pairing dman, a terrible cap dump, a waiver passing tweener and a pick in the late 20's, for a 1st line centre, olympic and world cup champ.

Leafs will offer you Carrick, Bozak, Leivo + 1st for Galchenyuk.
Fair?

it's fair but Galchenyuk isn't available. You should offer that for Duchene

In no way, shape or form does that package get Matt Duchene.