If they move all three I would think value would be what the Jets are looking for. Picks, prospects and players. some trades Getting futures as the main pieces and some trades getting roster players or a combination. I don’t think it has to be single minded for every trade.If Jets are clearing out Hellebuyck too (and likely Scheifele), aren’t we rebuilding? Chevy may have been forced to change his approach now… but I am not 100% certain.
Futures may be sufficient… or maybe not.
LeBrun: Dubois wants out of Winnipeg, will not sign a contract for next season
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They are 100% important pieces for teams that wants to compete but the guy you responded to is why. There will be no Byfield/Dach or similar level players included, not because these guys aren’t worth it but because it is possible to acquire them without giving them up.
History over the past 10 years has shown us that these kind of trades are usually packages and rarely will you see a highly skilled young center or defenseman under 22 who established himself as an NHL player and showed top line/top 6 potential move in those trades. It’s just the reality of it.
Brisson & PLD are playing nice with the Jets since he is still under contract until july 1st.
This is kind of saying to the Jets that they will play nicely if they can trade him before the deal expires.
Giving the jets a list 6 teams with which PLD will accept to talk contracts is not a promise he will sign the deal. The hope is that it is done cleanly, and that they come to a deal with Montreal. You know, nothing has changed since they said he'd like to play home. Posters were saying last year "But he has not requested a trade..." Now he has. Every move he's made was heading toward that. He only downplayed this when he was under contract, some kind of respect. And he persists and signs now. Can you guess their next move if he isn't trade at the draft ? (Because they know MTL is in a position to do so at the draft, above all other moments). When the contract expires July first, they are going to get to the media and double down on his desire to play in his home town and raise his family there...
Also, I can see Winnipeg accept future from MTL (most value Montreal can throw in), only to flip those for a more established asset in a retool kind of way. Pretty sure the Caps will do the same from the return they got on Orlov...
This is kind of saying to the Jets that they will play nicely if they can trade him before the deal expires.
Giving the jets a list 6 teams with which PLD will accept to talk contracts is not a promise he will sign the deal. The hope is that it is done cleanly, and that they come to a deal with Montreal. You know, nothing has changed since they said he'd like to play home. Posters were saying last year "But he has not requested a trade..." Now he has. Every move he's made was heading toward that. He only downplayed this when he was under contract, some kind of respect. And he persists and signs now. Can you guess their next move if he isn't trade at the draft ? (Because they know MTL is in a position to do so at the draft, above all other moments). When the contract expires July first, they are going to get to the media and double down on his desire to play in his home town and raise his family there...
Also, I can see Winnipeg accept future from MTL (most value Montreal can throw in), only to flip those for a more established asset in a retool kind of way. Pretty sure the Caps will do the same from the return they got on Orlov...
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
Too much of a reach for me. I pass. There is a chance both Dach and the 5th OA pick is just as good as Fantilli. Right now, we are emotionally tied to who Fantilli could become.
Risky to make a trade like that IMO. The Ducks conversation rumor is spiraling out of control.
The only thing that makes me nervous with Dach is that 4 year deal (3 left now). If he continues to improve, he will be in a situation where he has one RFA year left and needs a new contract. That could be a massive headache after 3 more season. Higher cap too.
Crede777
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I'm just here for when he signs long term with someone other than Montreal and the Habs fans turn on him.
Buffdog
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When was the last time a 25 year old 6'2 205lb power centre who scores and hits was available in a trade and willing to lock up with his new team on an 8 year contract?
Horvat is 3 years older so his deal will run until he's 36 whereas PLD's will be done as he's just exiting his prime at 33. PLD has a higher points per game (marginally) than horvat. Plus he brings the other aspects Bo doesn't
In other words, you have no idea what it will take to aquire PLD because guys like this don't become available hardly at all
Lol wait a sec...
You're not willing to give up dach for PLD because of how Dach is projecting
OK fine
But you can't use the same argument IN FAVOR of Dach vs Fantilli
These mental gymnastics are fascinating
Gabe Kupari
Registered User
103 pages about a 60 point 2 center. This thread answers the question how many times can you repeat the same bs over and over and over and still have no clue. Apparently quite a few times.
103 pages of basically ppl guessing. Fun stuff.
103 pages of basically ppl guessing. Fun stuff.
Its not Dach vs Fantilli, it's Mitchkov/Smith + Dach vs Fantilli...
It's not Dach vs Dubois, its Dach + 31st + Beck vs Dubois...
I like both players. What teams are competing with the Kings? If Montreal isnt including Slafkovsky the Kings dont need to include Byfield. The Penguins, Oilers, Avalanche, Hurricanes need a goalie but dont have anyone near Byfield to trade. So its really a small number of teams with those types of assets like Ottawa and the Devils that could throw their hat in for a goalie.
tbcwpg
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Really feels like LA is in the driver's seat now, which could either be a ploy by the Jets/Brisson to turn up the pressure on Montreal, or actually be true.
I think it's better for both Montreal and Winnipeg that he goes to LA. Better return for Winnipeg than Montreal is apparently willing to offer, and Montreal can carry on with future All-Star Kirby Dach and Suzuki and Caufield and whoever they get at #5.
I think it's better for both Montreal and Winnipeg that he goes to LA. Better return for Winnipeg than Montreal is apparently willing to offer, and Montreal can carry on with future All-Star Kirby Dach and Suzuki and Caufield and whoever they get at #5.
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
Go away. You're nit picking and omitting that we are adding the 5th OA pick on top of Dach. I can't control your lack of comprehension, nor will I be held responsible for it.
The mental gymnastics you went through in your belittle attempt is also fascinating.
Dach + 5th OA > Fantilli. Fantilli could be the guy we think he could be but Dach was also highly rated pre draft. Let me guess, there is no way Fantilli stalls or takes time to develop like Dach right?
Sure buddy, lets just add the 5th OA pick on top. Just a small add that you felt that you didn't need to mention in your post above.
Gaylord Q Tinkledink
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A lot of Hab fans are already somewhat muted on him. Not really interested in paying the assets needed to potentially beat LA and then paying him potentially 9 mill.
I'd say a lot more are either against, or wanting to acquire him for cheap and sign him "cheap" than pay a fair price both in terms of assets to acquire him and his contract.
Buffdog
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So you'd do Dach straight up for Dubois?
So, why do Ducks fans disagree that Dach + 5 > Fantilli?
Fantilli has Eichel-like upside
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
Habs are not going to budge. It's been almost a year now of Dubios talk and the 1st team you hear entering into the discussions is now the front runner.
. A little on the gullible side of things don't you think? I also notched your little jab in "future" all star in Dach. You guys really don't like the Habs eh. The proof is there. The way some Jets fans treat Montreal is ignorance but I get it, you can't help yourselves.
Turn up the pressure on the Habs all you want. We said 100 times that we are interested but not desperate. If you feel the Kings are giving you want you want, go right ahead.
So... still a retool.
I guess we still have solid roster pieces. It will be interesting to see how they deal with the center position if both Dubois and Scheifele are getting moved.
Bringer of Jollity
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Habs are not going to budge. It's been almost a year now of Dubios talk and the 1st team you hear entering into the discussions is now the front runner.
I also notched your little jab in "future" all star in Dach. You guys really don't like the Habs eh. The proof is there. The way some Jets fans treat Montreal is ignorance but I get it, you can't help yourselves.
Turn up the pressure on the Habs all you want. We said 100 times that we are interested but not desperate. If you feel the Kings are giving you want you want, go right ahead.
You have to be kidding in response to the bolded considering what's said about Winnipeg and PLD over and over again.
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
Ducks have their opinion and they have that right. Same as mine. What are you trying to say? Habs fans know nothing and Ducks fan do? I'm not surprised because most fans outside of Montreal just don't like us... including the Jets. Just because you don't like us, it doesn't reveal facts.
I'm aware of Fantilli's "upside". Some of you never learn though... you always get emotionally attached on who they could become. It happens yes but it's not locked in. It's very possible that both Dach and the 5th OA pick could be just as good as Fantilli when we look back in 5 years.
This is the Dubois thread. Time for you to set aside your weak belittle attempt on Dach/5th for 2 before you go any deeper. Nice try though
I would have traded Dach for Dubois in a normal world. But now that he has requested a trade, has visibly his sights on Montreal, and he has only one year left before hitting UFA and leaving the Jets anyway, I wouldn't. Leverage was lost over time...
Why do they disagree ? They have the rights to do so. And yes, Fantilli has better upside than Dach as of now. And they need a franchise center more than anything. Might be a need thing. Lesser Dach plus a winger they don't need, as good as he may look like.
theguardianII
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Sure a lot of posters upset about his desire to play where he wants.
Sort of like someone like an ace mechanic wanting to work in his home town but forced to work in another country instead.
The idea of being indentured is bad.
This is the reality of the CBA, young players are indentured to the team that drafts them or traded for them.
There are other players that have done the same thing, Lindros and Lemieux are two notable and undoubtedly there are others that aren't as famous.
Some players want to win, some to play for their home town.
Does anyone think Rick Nash wanted to waste his career in Columbus and never get a chance at a cup while he was in his prime?
This is what FA is supposed to be, there is good and bad.
Winnipeg does have an out though, a trade that will get them a substantial return.
Every Canadian team has issues that make it less than desirable to play in, the Peg just has a few more but there are many players in the league that might not be against playing there or not be able to nix a trade to that franchise. It does make it a little harder for the GM but not impossible.
Winnipeg HAS to use Dubois's value to improve the team, trade targets would be multiple draft picks/prospects, other RFA players under team control for a few years and other players with long term contracts.
Being familiar with the Canucks IMO there are 3 trade candidates that Winnipeg could target. Brock Boeser whose family is just a 1/2 flight south of Winnipeg, JT Miller, a point per game player who has a long term contract and would be an instant positive addition in the standings or at least a replacement for Dubois and Garland another player with some term. Also as a addition might be Myers or OEL but they have clauses.
I doubt any of these will be traded with Winnipeg but similar type players around the league for a win now team that the Peg is.
Maybe a three way trade where Dubois ends up where he wants, that is unless the "unwritten rule" or "old boys club" prevent his desire to be allowed.
Location should not be a big deterrent as most players live elsewhere it still seems to be a big consideration.
At any rate Dubois is not the only player voicing his desire and at least it is not a surprise, Winnipeg has had 3 years to figure this out and they have the hammer for one more year.
DeBrincat is doing the same.
Dubois to Montreal can be done especially through a 3 way trade and might get the biggest return.
Sort of like someone like an ace mechanic wanting to work in his home town but forced to work in another country instead.
The idea of being indentured is bad.
This is the reality of the CBA, young players are indentured to the team that drafts them or traded for them.
There are other players that have done the same thing, Lindros and Lemieux are two notable and undoubtedly there are others that aren't as famous.
Some players want to win, some to play for their home town.
Does anyone think Rick Nash wanted to waste his career in Columbus and never get a chance at a cup while he was in his prime?
This is what FA is supposed to be, there is good and bad.
Winnipeg does have an out though, a trade that will get them a substantial return.
Every Canadian team has issues that make it less than desirable to play in, the Peg just has a few more but there are many players in the league that might not be against playing there or not be able to nix a trade to that franchise. It does make it a little harder for the GM but not impossible.
Winnipeg HAS to use Dubois's value to improve the team, trade targets would be multiple draft picks/prospects, other RFA players under team control for a few years and other players with long term contracts.
Being familiar with the Canucks IMO there are 3 trade candidates that Winnipeg could target. Brock Boeser whose family is just a 1/2 flight south of Winnipeg, JT Miller, a point per game player who has a long term contract and would be an instant positive addition in the standings or at least a replacement for Dubois and Garland another player with some term. Also as a addition might be Myers or OEL but they have clauses.
I doubt any of these will be traded with Winnipeg but similar type players around the league for a win now team that the Peg is.
Maybe a three way trade where Dubois ends up where he wants, that is unless the "unwritten rule" or "old boys club" prevent his desire to be allowed.
Location should not be a big deterrent as most players live elsewhere it still seems to be a big consideration.
At any rate Dubois is not the only player voicing his desire and at least it is not a surprise, Winnipeg has had 3 years to figure this out and they have the hammer for one more year.
DeBrincat is doing the same.
Dubois to Montreal can be done especially through a 3 way trade and might get the biggest return.
tbcwpg
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Habs are not going to budge. It's been almost a year now of Dubios talk and the 1st team you hear entering into the discussions is now the front runner.
I also notched your little jab in "future" all star in Dach. You guys really don't like the Habs eh. The proof is there. The way some Jets fans treat Montreal is ignorance but I get it, you can't help yourselves.
Turn up the pressure on the Habs all you want. We said 100 times that we are interested but not desperate. If you feel the Kings are giving you want you want, go right ahead.
I don't care if the Habs budge or not. I'm not turning up the pressure on anyone. I'm commenting on my read of the articles lately. Again, I've noticed how you hate having Habs fans painted with one brush but have no problem with reducing other teams management, team and fanbase into one monolithic entity.
I'm not surprised another team or two enters the discussion right at the end. It happens all the time. It's a deadline driven league.
Yeah I threw a little Dach thing in there. I don't hate the Habs at all. The future is bright with or without Dubois, and Dach should be pretty good. I think some Jets fans are a bit tired of some Habs fans constantly pushing low value offers on the Jets and saying take it or leave it, for over a year now at this point. It doesn't matter if it reflects reality. Take that feeling you feel about Dach or Beck being undervalued, and then apply it to one year of being told that consistently. There's also the background of some nut jobs threatening Scheifele's parents after Game 1 in 2021 or the Jets fan who was at Game 4 getting beaten up outside the Bell Centre. The loudest idiots make the biggest noise.
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
I'm not kidding. Habs fans have been clear with our intentions and Jets fans are blaming us for Dubois wanting out when you need to look at your GM for making that Laine/Rost risky move. Why is it the Habs fault that Dubois refused to sign and you went from Laine to thinking Vilardi, M Roy, and a pick is better?
Beck is not good right? I'm pretty sure if you had him in your system, you would like him just as much as we do. But because he was drafted by the Habs, he's a bust and overrated.
Vilardi, M Roy, and Kings 24 1st (protected)
vs
Beck, Panthers 23 1st (31st), and Dvorak.
Kings potential offer is soooo much better right? Like it's not even close? Did I get that right? If that is the offer from the Kings and you accept it, I really do hope Vilardi works out.
I understand your tired of Habs fans but Dubois created this situation. If the situation was reversed and you had a guy that said he wants to come home, you would do the same.
Our offers have been more on the consistent side. We are interested but not desperate. If you feel the Kings offer more, good luck.
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Buffdog
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Your second paragraph is interesting because it's EXACTLY what Habs fans have been doing with Dach in PLD threads.
No, I'm saying that your bias is clouding your judgement when it comes to Dach's value
Your second paragraph is interesting because it's EXACTLY what Habs fans have been doing with Dach in PLD threads.
Buffdog
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You can't just make up a mediocre offer for LA as proof that your mediocre offer is more valuable.
For all you know, Byfield is on the table
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