Proposal: Dubois to Habs

[yianik]

There is 0 reason for the Jets to trade him this season. If they have a good year, maybe PLD reconsiders and does sign with them.

 

[Xirik]

One clear distinction is that Dubois and Brisson have made it abundantly clear that Dubois would like to play for the Canadiens and it's been reported that the Canadiens have tried to trade for him last summer.

It will all come done to money and whether they are willing to play in montreal, I feel that both players would be open to playing for the Habs. While PLD is a great player I think that Horvat is a better fit for the Habs roster.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

There is 0 reason for the Jets to trade him this season. If they have a good year, maybe PLD reconsiders and does sign with them.

Maybe but all indications point to Dubois wanting to leave for personal reasons/lifestyle, not any beef with Winnipeg itself. Not sure the Jets having a good year would come into the balance.

 

[Hunter368]

I can't find it, can you quote ?
All I see is reactions to other's propositions. No 2C, Roy & Kidney being B prospects.
But I don't see your proposition.

Oh if your you were asking for a specific offer I didn't make that, I suggested what his value to any team looking for a very good 2C/potential 1C would be at the TDL next year. I also pointed out the Jets don't have cap issues so they can take cap back if needed to help more teams can fit PLD cap into their team. Chevy would also give teams access to PLD agent to make him contract offers/discussions.

TDL (1+ year from now) value of player like PLD would be roughly:

Mid to late 1st
B level prospect
Mid ranged pick/C level prospect

IMO is PLD was traded this summer, his return would be more than the above TDL value, how much more is up for debate. To-date I've seen very few offers from Habs fans that would fit that value estimate and less that actually fit the Jets needs vs pieces Habs fan deem as expendable/low value.

 

[Chose]

Oh if your you were asking for a specific offer I didn't make that, I suggested what his value to any team looking for a very good 2C/potential 1C would be at the TDL next year. I also pointed out the Jets don't have cap issues so they can take cap back if needed to help more teams can fit PLD cap into their team. Chevy would also give teams access to PLD agent to make him contract offers/discussions.

TDL (1+ year from now) value of player like PLD would be roughly:

Mid to late 1st
B level prospect
Mid ranged pick/C level prospect

IMO is PLD was traded this summer, his return would be more than the above TDL value, how much more is up for debate. To-date I've seen very few offers from Habs fans that would fit that value estimate and less that actually fit the Jets needs vs pieces Habs fan deem as expendable/low value.

Exactly, I am asking for a specific offer. And I am seeing none of those from Jets fans. Only seeing refusal of Habs fans trying to come up with a specific offer. So much easier. And you dodge the request again.

I will give it a try: FLO 1st 2023, Roy, 2nd 2024

 

[TS Quint]

…

Exactly, I am asking for a specific offer. And I am seeing none of those from Jets fans. Only seeing refusal of Habs fans trying to come up with a specific offer. So much easier. And you dodge the request again.

I will give it a try: FLO 1st 2023, Roy, 2nd 2024

You see plenty of answers. For the most part Jet fans aren’t wanting to trade him.

 

[Chose]

…

Apparently, they will have to. So instead of turning every offer down, try to come up with something you would consider to help the discussion... It's not a one way thing...

I totally get that wouldn't want to right now, because the Jets are doing good.
We are talking about an hypothetical trade this summer, when it seems the stars will align...

If they want to keep him until he walks, that's fine too. Their prerogative.

 

[Hunter368]

Exactly, I am asking for a specific offer. And I am seeing none of those from Jets fans. Only seeing refusal of Habs fans trying to come up with a specific offer. So much easier. And you dodge the request again.

I will give it a try: FLO 1st 2023, Roy, 2nd 2024

Can you clarify what am I dodging? I've posted multi times what I feel the value would be from any team making an offer, you posted one offer towards me........who is dodging vs who is answered all the questions directed at him?

If you asking me if I would accept that offer, the answer would be no b/c it doesn't fit the value I've posted multi times or at least it falls on the very low end of it at best.

I stated a mid to late 1st rd pick, you offer the FL 1st rd pick and we all know thats a very late pick. (weak)

I stated a B level prospect, you offered Roy (ok)

I stated a C level prospect or mid round pick, you offered a 2rd pick (ok)

Based on this offer I assume you're thinking at the TDL next year, if you're asking for a trade this summer I would say your offer is lite, not brutal just lite and I think other teams likely beat it.

 

[Chose]

Can you clarify what am I dodging? I've posted multi times what I feel the value would be from any team making an offer, you posted one offer towards me........who is dodging vs who is answered all the questions directed at him?

If you asking me if I would accept that offer, the answer would be no b/c it doesn't fit the value I've posted multi times or at least it falls on the very low end of it at best.

I stated a mid to late 1st rd pick, you offer the FL 1st rd pick and we all know thats a very late pick. (weak)

I stated a B level prospect, you offered Roy (ok)

I stated a C level prospect or mid round pick, you offered a 2rd pick (ok)

Based on this offer I assume you're thinking at the TDL next year, if you're asking for a trade this summer I would say your offer is lite, not brutal just lite and I think other teams likely beat it.

You are dodging the request to come up with a specific offer, that I have been requesting you for 3 pages now.
Again, you are simply turning down an offer. I should know better than to fall into those traps.

What would it take, specifically, from Habs, to pry him away from you this summer, from your point of view.
Coming short of ways to word it differently now...
Not asking a general feel of the value of a rental at TDL. I can read what you already posted 3 times, thank you.

I guess I will log out, nothing more to get out of this.

 

[ole ole]

Why would we give up our chances of making a playoff run to accept an insultingly low offer for a player who is working for us? If the price is too steep, we don't care. Get lost. We're tired of hearing "bUt wE'Ll gEt HiM fOR fReEeEEeeEEEE!!!!!". It's old, it's tired. Do it. We. Don't. Care.

That makes 2 of us as we don't care either. Not interested in giving market for him. sO KeEp hIM.

 

[Canadienna]

I wont lie I'd love him on the Habs, but it clearly makes more sense from MTLs POV to wait and see.

Jets won't trade him right now for anything less than a big overpayment, and Montreal isn't actively trying to improve and compete this year.

Next trade deadline, all these things could be different, and hopefully (from the Habs POV) Dubois still wants to play in MTL.

Then we can figure whether it's worth it to trade for him or wait and see for the summer.

TLDR we're a year early and a lot can change in a year.

 

[Hunter368]

You are dodging the request to come up with a specific offer, that I have been requesting you for 3 pages now.
Again, you are simply turning down an offer. I should know better than to fall into those traps.

What would it take, specifically, from Habs, to pry him away from you this summer, from your point of view.
Coming short of ways to word it differently now...
Not asking a general feel of the value of a rental at TDL. I can read what you already posted 3 times, thank you.

I guess I will log out, nothing more to get out of this.

Ok, next time you might want to be more specific/clear in your wording. For the record I just agreed with two of the three pieces you offered as part of a trade.

 

[ole ole]

Again, assuming Jet braintrust crunches #s and it appears
long term value of assets provide immediate/short term help > PLD now then walking w'in 2 yrs

IF that is the case, a deal would ideally
- have long term upside [future pieces, prospects/picks]
- include a useful asset now which can be flipped as a rental if desired down the road.

--------------------------
The vet piece to be added here is not Monahan, but IF IT WERE POSSIBLE, Anderson.
It is currently NOT possible b'c Andy salary is too much $$$$$ and too long term, even if MON ate half.

Howev if you had a third team taking Andy first, and then maybe doing a final retain on top of that, along with futures assets, that would be enuf to get PLD, who could then be flipped to MON. Think Rangers
who could do

deal for Anderson first so he can be flipped to WPG
Habs have 0 cap so return on this must be min 5.5 going the other way

1. Anderson 5.5 x 5 max 50% reduced to 2.75 per
for
Reaves 1.75 expiring
Carpenter .75 expiring
Vesey .75 expiring
Khodorenko .925 expiring -> rfa retain .295 = .63
Gettinger .75 expiring ->rfa
Henriksson .870 x 2 ->rfa

cap hit is exactly = 5.5 each;
contracts:
pre deal, MON has 45/50; they add 6, subtract 1 = net 5 which short term = fit


2. NYR - WPG
Jones .925 expiring ->rfa
Anderson 5.5 x 5 reduced by half = 2.75 per
Rangers eat .75 per so total = 2 per season!
NYR 2024 + 2025 1sts
total cap hit = 2.925

to WPG for
PLD 6M expiring
Jets 2024 and 2025 2nd round picks
total cap hit = 6

net cap dif = hit on Jets = (subtract 6, add 2.925 =) + 3.075 savings

----------
That would cover that part of it.

The follow thru is extensive, and it requires MON understand, it can on this occasion by happenstance have its cake and eat it too --- but not if it is greedy.

Habs want to max accelerate getting back to contending, but don't want to walk away from possible 1OA.
THEY CAN DO THAT if if if they straighten out the Fs, get them ready this yr to roll next yr, but suck ass on both D and G, which will require retool starting next season. That will be easier (fewer bodies) than Fs. Still do great at draft this yr

NY needs to move bread's 11+m but not give away free, get good future value
arguably bread agrees to waive nmc to huge stage in MON but that is IF IF IF he sees enuf dots connected to Habs quick turn around

NY can do all that for a profit and mutual back scratch

Panarin has played w/PLD + is good at RW w/LaF at LW, LaF likely to give some level of discount to Habs

A. Do the above deals
B. side deal 1:1 LaF for Slaf
C. PLD + Panarin for profit, profit, profit

assuming they all waive:
PLD 6.0 expiring ->rfa @ half retained = 3.0
Panarin 11,642,875 x 4
Lindbom elc .855 x 2
total cap hit = 15,497,875

to Rangers for
cap dump Gallager 6.5 x 5 max 50% reduced to 3.25 per
cap dump Hoffman 4.5 x 2
cap dump Drouin 5.5 expiring
cap dump Allen 2.875 current hit, then 3.85 x 2
Justin Barron .925 elc x 2
Guhle 863,333 x 3 elc
FL 2023 1st + Mon 2023 2nd
Mon. 2025 and 2027 1sts
16.913,333

cap dif = [16.913,333 - 15,497,875 =] 1,415,458 cap savings to MON/hit to NYR
contracts: NY adds 3, MON deducts 6, which NY can do

why MON.
Deal removes F deadwood from Habs roster, replacing w/PLD + bread = 1st line adds
now have solid Fs throughout, Suzuki, Dach pushed down in lines, others get a chance to replace short term [Druin, Hoffman] + long term [Gallagher] w/youth

cost is in goal and at D, Habs will improve and score more but suck ass at backline and in net. After effectively tanking, it will be easier to add fewer quality bodies at D and find at least one good G

NY — not done, but short term, are addressing structural cap by moving Panarin and getting value for him
Add 1sts and prospects
Rangers will sell off excess vets
==============

Have to work out final, but essentially NY flips Allen + possibly retaining, pays Ducks for taking Gallagher
acquire Vatrano
Allen makes Gibson available more readily

etc etc etc

Only one problem. Habs will not be retaining 50% on Anderson's contract, NOT A CHANCE IN HELL and the rest of your offer is unrealistic as usual and your not getting Guhle, Slaf,3 x1st rd picks period.

 

[Chose]

Ok, next time you might want to be more specific/clear in your wording. For the record I just agreed with two of the three pieces you offered as part of a trade.

I have been pretty specific and you even acknowledged your comprehension in a previous post, without providing your specific counter offer. And you fail to do it again.

After agreeing to two pieces of my proposal, what would you propose to fix it ?

 

[ole ole]

You went through all of that, and it didn't occur to you that Winnipeg has no interest in acquiring Anderson? Start with Montreal's 1st round pick in this years draft. If you don't want to part with it, roll the dice and see if he comes over as a UFA, assuming Winnipeg hasn't traded him to a team that's already talked him into a long term deal...

Forget it. We are nit interested in trading our 1st.

 

[TS Quint]

Apparently, they will have to. So instead of turning every offer down, try to come up with something you would consider to help the discussion... It's not a one way thing...

They don’t have to do anything.

The team is playing well. Fans want to see if this leads back to the hope that the beginning of last year had when most people thought they were contenders. Last year was an absolute shit show. No wonder Dubois wanted out. Things went off the rails, a complete train wreck last year. Coach quitting, players roasting the team’s culture and coaches in the media. A good season with the Jets being more stable might change his mind.

The Jets surprisingly (to many) have done fairly well brainwashing their players into resigning. They need to get back to that. There is a group of those players coming to the end of their contracts and also need to be convinced of signing and going into a full rebuild isn’t what they want to hear. This isn’t just about Dubois. There really is no discussion to be had this year. If thing go to hell, next year there will be a discussion. This year unless someone bring something to the table to knock the Jets socks off he is a Jet.

 

[bernmeister]

Which is all fair, it is a pretty decent offer, but if it all means making a deal like tomorrow I’d rather just pld as a self rental for right now. If the situation changes in off-season or next tdl take the best offer then.

appreciate you speaking truth
I never repped it was crazy good, just solid and I don't expect a better one, tho i concede a desperate GM may crazy overpay, although being able to do that w'o gutting team is easier said than done.

Jets should, like every team, do what is in their own best interests

At this pt it remains to be see if Jets winning ways have legs
and regardless if braintrust thinks a longer term move may help

 

[Chose]

They don’t have to do anything.

The team is playing well. Fans want to see if this leads back to the hope that the beginning of last year had when most people thought they were contenders. Last year was an absolute shit show. No wonder Dubois wanted out. Things went off the rails, a complete train wreck last year. Coach quitting, players roasting the team’s culture and coaches in the media. A good season with the Jets being more stable might change his mind.

The Jets surprisingly (to many) have done fairly well brainwashing their players into resigning. They need to get back to that. There is a group of those players coming to the end of their contracts and also need to be convinced of signing and going into a full rebuild isn’t what they want to hear. This isn’t just about Dubois. There really is no discussion to be had this year. If thing go to hell, next year there will be a discussion. This year unless someone bring something to the table to knock the Jets socks off he is a Jet.

Ok, wishing you luck ! We will wait then, we don't need him now. We will take the chance to wait 1.5y.
We will not knock your socks off in this situation.

 

[voyageur]

Jets won't have any leverage, for what?

Jets have total control on:

- When PLD is traded
- Where PLD is traded
- Chevy totally controls giving all interested teams who need a very good 2C & potential 1C access to PLD's agent to make him offers on a contract
- Chevy has total control if PLD is traded as a one year or TDL next year rental
- Chevy totally controls if he offers PLD a contract
- Chevy has total control if he accepts a OS
- Chevy got a good D prospect & younger top 4 D as a return on Trouba despite KO comments
- Does Chevy have total control what the return will be, no GM completely does in a trade. Is PLD value decrease due to his contract situation? yes. Do all rentals have an established value? Yes. I've stated many times PLD value in any trade discussion starts with his TDL rental value and go from there depending on the timing of the trade and teams/pieces being offered.

Well if Brisson plays the Overhardt tactic 30 teams suddenly don't have the same interest in Dubois, as a one year draft day rental. One team then has leverage. And that was the premise. And any single team can talk to Dubois's agent as long he's an unsigned free agent, so Chevy doesn't have the control there. Just the control to match any offer if one is given.

Yes Chevy has control of the end result, can ultimately make the decision as to what is best for his team.

Here's the thing though, the Trouba trade was initially viewed as a complete failure, I don't want to quote every single Jets poster who lamented this trade because it's over 75% of the board. I wasn't one of them. I have confidence in Chevy and his scouts ability to assess talent.

 

[ole ole]

I don't think he will want to go to a non-playoff team unless you overpay

At least he knows when the Habs do make the playoffs there's a good chance they will get by the 1st rd unlike some other team..

Do you really think whatever team he is on will sign him to a 1 year contract taking him to UFA. I highly doubt that but hey you keep your fantasy alive.

I think that will all up to PLD not the team he's going to.

 

[bernmeister]

Only one problem. Habs will not be retaining 50% on Anderson's contract, NOT A CHANCE IN HELL and the rest of your offer is unrealistic as usual and your not getting Guhle, Slaf,3 x1st rd picks period.

fine
w'o 3rd team in to retain further you will eat Anderson not only now, but the next 5 seasons
his roster spot will be productive but take away from kids you already have who could use the mins

You would be better off w/LaF, bread + help on Dubois
+ removing other cap dumps
up front vs futures I asked for

but go ahead
live w consequences of yr decisions

 

[Tasteless Beaver]

Can Habs fans please stop creating the Dubois to MTL threads? The discussion and result is always the same. Please stop.

 

[ole ole]

In this particular case there are no shortcuts.
bread may consider MON but only under certain circumstances.
Rangers only go through these gyrations to Habs benefit if there is enuf in it for them.
Panarin has full nmc, so it is what I laid out or nothing.

Nothing please. We want NOTHING to do with the Rangers and their players.

fine
w'o 3rd team in to retain further you will eat Anderson not only now, but the next 5 seasons
his roster spot will be productive but take away from kids you already have who could use the mins

You would be better off w/LaF, bread + help on Dubois
+ removing other cap dumps
up front vs futures I asked for

but go ahead
live w consequences of yr decisions

We will while holding on to Slaf, Guhle, 3-1 st rd picks etc.

 

[ole ole]

Can Habs fans please stop creating the Dubois to MTL threads? The discussion and result is always the same. Please stop.

Please i agree. I don't think the Habs should even consider trading any assets for him period.

 

[RC51]

MTL says NO. we got Beck at elc contract soon. As for the rest of the habs prospects, well so far irt sure looks like 4-6 top prospects still to come up in a few years and THATS not even thinking of all this years soon draft picks WOW, just WOW.
most of the top current teams have sold away most of their top draft pick to go for the gold in the last 2-4 years. Now all these winners all need huge contracts so teams are looking to dump some of the big contracts and well what do you know a lot of teams are looking over the fence at all these great prospects the habs have.