Confirmed with Link: Dubas the new GM - TSN

[Daisy Jane]

because there are several examples of desperation leading to stupidity. I don't want Dubas to feel like he desperately has to improve the defense. The defense does need to be improved, but not completely overhauled or anything. There's no need to open up a big hole elsewhere in order to bring in a defender

but that's the thing. like other people here say the same thing
improving the team isn't "desperation leading to stupidity." neither is "Not doing anything, being smart." it's somewhere in the middle. there are moves that need to be done. I expected Lou to do them, and he didn't and I hope that Dubas does.

we suck defensively. we suck defensively as a five man unit and we suck defensively on the back end
it needs to be fixed or there's no point in watching the Leafs next season because we can predict the future: we're going use our firepower to make the playoffs, and we're out in the first round. If we're lucky.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

but that's the thing. like other people here say the same thing
improving the team isn't "desperation leading to stupidity." neither is "Not doing anything, being smart." it's somewhere in the middle. there are moves that need to be done. I expected Lou to do them, and he didn't and I hope that Dubas does.

we suck defensively. we suck defensively as a five man unit and we suck defensively on the back end
it needs to be fixed or there's no point in watching the Leafs next season because we can predict the future: we're going use our firepower to make the playoffs, and we're out in the first round. If we're lucky.

this is the exact mindset i'm extremely thankful that Dubas doesn't seem to have, no offense. wanting to make drastic changes due to overstating our problems like this would backfire

 

[djdev]

but that's the thing. like other people here say the same thing
improving the team isn't "desperation leading to stupidity." neither is "Not doing anything, being smart." it's somewhere in the middle. there are moves that need to be done. I expected Lou to do them, and he didn't and I hope that Dubas does.

we suck defensively. we suck defensively as a five man unit and we suck defensively on the back end
it needs to be fixed or there's no point in watching the Leafs next season because we can predict the future: we're going use our firepower to make the playoffs, and we're out in the first round. If we're lucky.

i dont think our blue line sucks though, maybe im in the minority.
i believe we definitely need 1 stud type that we can put in with rielly, and possibly a 6/7. if we can get that 1 big fish, i think the players wont be asked to play above their heads against matchups they arent qualified for. then the defense as a whole looks alot better. if hainsey wasnt asked to carry such a load last year and could be more of a bottom pairing/PK guy then i dont think we see him regress as much late in the season/playoffs.

i also am in the minority whereas i think zaits has a much better year next year tan he did this year.

edit: as a 5 man unit tho i agree more, that needs improvement. but the young kids coming up through the marlies that have played babs system already in the ahl, will be more equipped to play this brand of hockey than our stubborn, set in their ways, vets who at the end of the day just never had it in them to play a 2 way game

 

[Peasy]

this is the exact mindset i'm extremely thankful that Dubas doesn't seem to have, no offense. wanting to make drastic changes due to overstating our problems like this would backfire

Recency bias is a helluva drug. Just look at Edmonton.

Does our defense need work? Of course it does. But that doesn't mean you make a rash decision and drastically over pay to address it.

 

[Daisy Jane]

this is the exact mindset i'm extremely thankful that Dubas doesn't seem to have, no offense. wanting to make drastic changes due to overstating our problems like this would backfire

where. in that entire post, did i use the word drastic? hell I didn't even say throw everyone out. but you can not honestly sit there and believe that every single answer that solves the leafs problem is in the Marlies. because it's not. Can they help? Yes. they can, but is everything going to be all lollipops and rainbows - no.

I don't see how it's "overstating our problem." it's not. good. enough. it hasn't been good enough for two years. If Dubas doesn't do anything it won't be good enough next year. if people want to ignore it because we have all the offence who cares, that's all well and good, but there are times when the leafs do not have the puck. and then when they don't, they aren't very good as a whole.

it just drives me up the wall that anything that this management group can (or should do) if people don't like it automatically gets upgraded to "Well Chiarelli screwed up so any attempt to make improvements to the team that requires a hard choice equals the same thing." it isn't. Eventually - the Leafs are going to have to make a trade that involves pieces that we rather not want to move and people are going to have to accept it.

What we should hope isn't that Dubas doesn't do nothing it's that Dubas has the intelligence to figure out who the right guy is to get.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Recency bias is a helluva drug. Just look at Edmonton.

Does our defense need work? Of course it does. But that doesn't mean you make a rash decision and drastically over pay to address it.

never said I wanted Dubas to make a rash decision or overpay for anything.
what I said was, I don't understand why any move we make will be akin to Chiarelli making a dumb move. that's always the go to here. If we move anything "oh my god it's Hall for Larsson two point oh."

it's never Sergachev for Drouin.
it's never RyJo for Jones
it's never the equally amount of "it worked for both teams."

no it's always the (ironically) recent trade of Chia's boneheaded move.

 

[Pookie]

Your an older fan of this team like myself let me ask you this. When has the GM or coach had the respect of the media & fans? The answer is never. The better this team gets the more intense the criticism gets when it doesn't win it all.

This is the one thing Babcock doesn't understand about this market and not winning since 67 in how it is here even if the team is a contender until now with the loss to Boston about making it safe to be a Leaf. It's never safe here until they win the Stanley cup everything is scrutinized to the point of fanatical delusion starting from the media searching for an angle of negativity no matter how small or ridiculous to keep people talking creating fanatical delusion when there's no reason for an uproar.

Just look at how there is no reason for the view point of this team right now be so ugly.

Hired one of the best coaches in the NHL to shape this franchise on ice product
Went from last to making the playoffs followed with a franchise best point season
The core of the team is so young the better players of that core still can't go to any bars in the USA.
Excellent shape with the cap
The Marlies have produced NHL players at a rate that has never happen before from this franchise
etc.

Yet the narrative is as if this is sinking, dysfunctional ship. Why?

I think it’s degrees of media acceptance.

Lou walked in with a track record. It takes some time to tear that down. Same with Babcock. 3 seasons.

JFJ? A little easier to take shots out of the gate. Less acceptance

I think one of the smartest things Shanahan did was hire Babcock and Lou. Not because I believe Coaching makes any particular difference. In fact, I argue it’s largely a minor factor and take my shots because of that.

But what it did do was buy credibility. Which means buy time to make long term moves.

Unfortunately, getting rentals and MLSE wanting the pain message softened has risen expectations and shortened whatever little patience there was.

Dubas is now squarely in that expectation spotlight with no track record and no time to learn on the job.

It will be tough. Hope he succeeds

 

[Peasy]

never said I wanted Dubas to make a rash decision or overpay for anything.
what I said was, I don't understand why any move we make will be akin to Chiarelli making a dumb move. that's always the go to here. If we move anything "oh my god it's Hall for Larsson two point oh."

it's never Sergachev for Drouin.
it's never RyJo for Jones
it's never the equally amount of "it worked for both teams."

no it's always the (ironically) recent trade of Chia's boneheaded move.

Sergachev would not help the Leafs as he is right now, and Johansen was comin off a 71 point season and a 30+ goal season before that, thats why he was able to fetch Jones. And hes a center, and Nashville was desperate for a C at the time.

If you look around the league, theres really no D man of those caliber available. You don't want to over pay for a mediocre middle 4 d man like Hamonic or Larsson.

This is why I wish the Leafs pushed hard to get Vatanen.

As it currently stands, we don't have a Ryjo to trade for a Jones, and a Nylander for a Sergachev equivalent wouldnt really help the Leafs at all right now, imo it would make us weaker.

So its just best to wait it out and see if any options arise or try to get creative with what you have.

 

[KPower]

Nylander for a Dman will be his first big move.

 

[Amadeus]

Nylander for a Dman will be his first big move.

No way were moving Nylander with JVR and Bozak leaving. We need to keep our offense.

 

[MR4]

Nylander for a Dman will be his first big move.

You're wrong. Dubas loves Nylander.

But I think people in this thread don't understand how big our 2 way game is going to improve having both Kapanen & Johnsson in the top 9 now over some of the worst defensive players in JVR & Bozak. Try to get someone like a Braun or Tanev for picks/b prospects and if that doesn't work just get a Pateryn/Cole and run with it hoping we get one of the top pair D in the offseason or a top D becomes available.

It doesn't have to happen this year.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Sergachev would not help the Leafs as he is right now, and Johansen was comin off a 71 point season and a 30+ goal season before that, thats why he was able to fetch Jones. And hes a center, and Nashville was desperate for a C at the time.

If you look around the league, theres really no D man of those caliber available. You don't want to over pay for a mediocre middle 4 d man like Hamonic or Larsson.

This is why I wish the Leafs pushed hard to get Vatanen.

As it currently stands, we don't have a Ryjo to trade for a Jones, and a Nylander for a Sergachev equivalent wouldnt really help the Leafs at all right now, imo it would make us weaker.

So its just best to wait it out and see if any options arise or try to get creative with what you have.

It takes a player that you wouldn’t presume to be available to get a player that we wouldn’t presume to be available. E.g., Hall/Larsson, Johansen/Jones, Sergachev/Drouin

We wouldn’t presume Nylander to be available, that’s just the value he has. That opens the table to consider defensemen that wouldn’t be available but a team that would put him at C.

For the record I’m not in favour of trading Nylander, I just think that claiming no one is available is a flawed premise when you have Nylander on the table. If Nylander was on the table for someone openly being shopped I’d probably be a bit disappointed.

 

[Martin Skoula]

For the defense we just need to push a few guys down for now. Bring in a Braun type to push Hainsey to the bottom pairing and maybe trade Gardiner for either an equivalent RHD or a package that could get one.

Rielly-Braun
Gardiner-Zaitsev
Dermott-Hainsey/Holl

That's ok for now as a placeholder defense until we find the right opportunity to bring in a real top pairing RHD.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Sergachev would not help the Leafs as he is right now, and Johansen was comin off a 71 point season and a 30+ goal season before that, thats why he was able to fetch Jones. And hes a center, and Nashville was desperate for a C at the time.

If you look around the league, theres really no D man of those caliber available. You don't want to over pay for a mediocre middle 4 d man like Hamonic or Larsson.

This is why I wish the Leafs pushed hard to get Vatanen.

As it currently stands, we don't have a Ryjo to trade for a Jones, and a Nylander for a Sergachev equivalent wouldnt really help the Leafs at all right now, imo it would make us weaker.

So its just best to wait it out and see if any options arise or try to get creative with what you have.

well let's work with the "right now" bit.

if we get say for arguments sake Pesce (or Sergachev) who "won't help us now" so we take a step back because of the obvious hit, but we ultimately become better for it down the road is that not also a good thing? like does everything have to be linear, like this move makes us good now or there's no point? Like if we could get a great quality player (defenseman, a Barkov-esque player or something, but it means we had to take a step back) that's something to consider too for example. sort of the "lose the battle, to win the war mentality." why is that necessarily the wrong approach?

for me it's not just "we need defensemen." (I feel we do) but i think we need to get better defensively as a team. it's not just about Tanev (no thank you) or Vatanen (i honestly don't know much to talk about him pro or con so i'll defer to your wanting him), but stronger defensively down the middle or on the wing.

 

[Al14]

You're wrong. Dubas loves Nylander.

But I think people in this thread don't understand how big our 2 way game is going to improve having both Kapanen & Johnsson in the top 9 now over some of the worst defensive players in JVR & Bozak. Try to get someone like a Braun or Tanev for picks/b prospects and if that doesn't work just get a Pateryn/Cole and run with it hoping we get one of the top pair D in the offseason or a top D becomes available.

It doesn't have to happen this year.

Dubas may love Nylander, but, sometimes you have to give quality to get quality. We need a top pairing D badly.

 

[MR4]

Dubas may love Nylander, but, sometimes you have to give quality to get quality. We need a top pairing D badly.

What top pairing D is out there available that's on Nylander's tier? Hamilton surely isn't, and even if we need a top pairing D we also need someone to be our longterm 2C which is almost as important so let's not go making holes trying to fill holes as quick as possible.

 

[Al14]

What top pairing D is out there available that's on Nylander's tier? Hamilton surely isn't, and even if we need a top pairing D we also need someone to be our longterm 2C which is almost as important so let's not go making holes trying to fill holes as quick as possible.

Good question? Doughty?

 

[LeafFever]

Dubas may love Nylander, but, sometimes you have to give quality to get quality. We need a top pairing D badly.

I don't get how it's only Nylander. Can't we give up a prospect and a first rounder and other picks? Why do we want to repeat the Chia Edmonton model?
I really believe you can get a top-pairing D without giving up Nylander.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Good question? Doughty?

Ouch, expiring UFA? Awful value. Nylander is cost controlled for like 8 more years.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

I don't get how it's only Nylander. Can't we give up a prospect and a first rounder and other picks? Why do we want to repeat the Chia Edmonton model?
I really believe you can get a top-pairing D without giving up Nylander.

I think it’s an exercise to see what the highest quality young defender is that we could potentially get.

 

[MR4]

Good question? Doughty?

Who's UFA in only 1 year. So maybe, just maybe, let's bank on if Doughty is supposed to sign in Toronto whether we initially have his rights or not, it'll still happen or not during free agency and we'll still have Nylander.

We don't need to have our defense of the next 5 years set just in this offseason, patience guys

 

[LeafFever]

I truly believe there will be other D-Men available other than the Karlsson Doughtry responses we always hear.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

I truly believe there will be other D-Men available other than the Karlsson Doughtry responses we always hear.

Doesn’t Carolina have an embarrassment of riches on RD, and need RW?

EDIT: I was thinking of Calgary

 

[Al14]

Ouch, expiring UFA? Awful value. Nylander is cost controlled for like 8 more years.

Agreed, but, how do you acquire a top D without waiting for 1 to be drafted and developed from within?

 

[Al14]

Who's UFA in only 1 year. So maybe, just maybe, let's bank on if Doughty is supposed to sign in Toronto whether we initially have his rights or not, it'll still happen or not during free agency and we'll still have Nylander.

We don't need to have our defense of the next 5 years set just in this offseason, patience guys

Yeah, but, once our young guns are finished with their ELCs, our window to win it all may already be closing.