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Player Discussion Drake Batherson (RW) - Part II

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I think what's known about the HC incident within hockey circles is a lot more than what's written about for public consumption. I don't think tsn is interviewing Batherson like they did Tuesday night if he was impacted by this. There's 20 guys to choose from.

His +/- stat is pretty concerning, as are the stats of our top 6. They're not scoring at 5 on 5 and it's concerning. Getting Norris back will help. I think Tkachuk Norris Batherson can play heavy north south hockey leaving the other line to play east west hockey. I think the styles line up well with that configuration and it eases the burden on Stuetzle
 
JD1 said:
I think what's known about the HC incident within hockey circles is a lot more than what's written about for public consumption. I don't think tsn is interviewing Batherson like they did Tuesday night if he was impacted by this. There's 20 guys to choose from.

His +/- stat is pretty concerning, as are the stats of our top 6. They're not scoring at 5 on 5 and it's concerning. Getting Norris back will help. I think Tkachuk Norris Batherson can play heavy north south hockey leaving the other line to play east west hockey. I think the styles line up well with that configuration and it eases the burden on Stuetzle
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Pretty wild turnaround, I think he was one the only + forwards on the team last year and now he's biggest -

Plus minus isn't a great stat but he's struggled to score 5v5 and has been making a lot of mistakes in coverage.
 
JD1 said:
I think what's known about the HC incident within hockey circles is a lot more than what's written about for public consumption. I don't think tsn is interviewing Batherson like they did Tuesday night if he was impacted by this. There's 20 guys to choose from.

His +/- stat is pretty concerning, as are the stats of our top 6. They're not scoring at 5 on 5 and it's concerning. Getting Norris back will help. I think Tkachuk Norris Batherson can play heavy north south hockey leaving the other line to play east west hockey. I think the styles line up well with that configuration and it eases the burden on Stuetzle
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I also think the league & Bettman might have more info that they are keeping quiet about. Its possible that Bettman told the Senators not to sign Formenton in hoping that he would just disappear eventually while keeping the issue as quiet as possible. I remember one interview when a reporter asked a question and there was some dancing around in the answer like there was something not being said. I think the concept that it was a contract issue versus the HC problem might have been direction from the league/Bettman to the Senators on how to handle this and keep things on the down low. I know this is just a theory, but I do believe things happen for a reason.
 
Big Muddy said:
I also think the league & Bettman might have more info that they are keeping quiet about. Its possible that Bettman told the Senators not to sign Formenton in hoping that he would just disappear eventually while keeping the issue as quiet as possible. I remember one interview when a reporter asked a question and there was some dancing around in the answer like there was something not being said. I think the concept that it was a contract issue versus the HC problem might have been direction from the league/Bettman to the Senators on how to handle this and keep things on the down low. I know this is just a theory, but I do believe things happen for a reason.
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Imo the Formenton contract situation was an HC issue. That's purely an opinion

That said, Formenton is a prominent player. He's young. He potted 18 goals. He was an awesome PKer. I can trace back to the day we got the franchise and there's never been a situation like this that's been completely void of media coverage. I think it's pretty clear that the media have been instructed to not ask and not write about it.
 
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JD1 said:
Imo the Formenton contract situation was an HC issue. That's purely an opinion

That said, Formenton is a prominent player. He's young. He potted 18 goals. He was an awesome PKer. I can trace back to the day we got the franchise and there's never been a situation like this that's been completely void of media coverage. I think it's pretty clear that the media have been instructed to not ask and not write about it.
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I think guys in the circle all know who the players are and who did what.

Before this even came out it would have been talked about a bit at the time amongst the guys.

I suspect the team has a pretty good idea of exactly if/what role each player played in the situation.

I agree it’s been a full block of any of the names, that why I was curious about if any other players on other teams are being iced out. Someone mentioned McLoed in NJ?
 
Big Muddy said:
I also think the league & Bettman might have more info that they are keeping quiet about. Its possible that Bettman told the Senators not to sign Formenton in hoping that he would just disappear eventually while keeping the issue as quiet as possible. I remember one interview when a reporter asked a question and there was some dancing around in the answer like there was something not being said. I think the concept that it was a contract issue versus the HC problem might have been direction from the league/Bettman to the Senators on how to handle this and keep things on the down low. I know this is just a theory, but I do believe things happen for a reason.
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I hope Formenton was not a key party in this situation and is not being victimized due to his contract situation while others who might be implicated and involved to a greater extent are not impacted in any way.
 
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Cosmix said:
I hope Formenton was not a key party in this situation and is not being victimized due to his contract situation while others who might be implicated and involved to a greater extent are not impacted in any way.
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Thats how I feel about it too.
Anyway... Presumption of Innocence in Canada.. The dot connecting and guessing involvement is a presumption of guilt.
Let the cards fall.. Anyone guilty of non consensual sex or touching should be punished .. but I am not going to punish him because
a) he did not comment; b) Dorion did not sign him c) Dorion did not trade him d) the media has been quiet
 
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I think things will be much more complicated than innocence vs guilt.

As is often the case in these situations it is accepted that the assault happened regardless, and it comes down to whether it was reasonable for the alleged offenders to know they were assaulting the victim.

The videos at the time, and text messages after, are potential indicators that there was some awareness on their part.

If the presumption ends up being that this is unclear and thus no charges are laid, or the alleged offenders are found not guilty, it doesn’t mean that they will all be cleared to play in the NHL again.

We have seen prospects who have served punishments, showed remorse for misdeeds, and been accused of much less serious behaviour, be barred from the league.

The saving grace at the moment is that all of the parties involved have remained officially anonymous, though it appears as though this may soon change.

At some point we will know who was involved, until then it’s just conversation and speculation, albeit educated.
 
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Sens of Anarchy said:
Thats how I feel about it too.
Anyway... Presumption of Innocence in Canada.. The dot connecting and guessing involvement is a presumption of guilt.
Let the cards fall.. Anyone guilty of non consensual sex or touching should be punished .. but I am not going to punish him because
a) he did not comment; b) Dorion did not sign him c) Dorion did not trade him d) the media has been quiet
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The NHL is in a pickle in this situation

Let's say there are 5 guys involved in the situation and it's more or less known what happened. 4 of them have contracts and are playing in the league. The league cannot do anything to the signed players in the absence of the players being charged. There's your presumption of innocence. The lawyers would otherwise have a field day if they were banned.

Formenton on the other hand did not have a contract. You're an old guy like me...do you remember a situation in the history of the franchise where there was a contract dispute with a prominent player where neither the team, the agent nor the player commented on it and the media didn't ask questions about it? I've never seen anything like this before. The only thing that adds up to me is all parties know the situation and no one is talking.

It really sucks for us... he's a very useful player. Here we are playing players that shouldn't be in the league and we've lost a solid young NHL player with nothing coming back in return.
 
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Cosmix said:
I hope Formenton was not a key party in this situation and is not being victimized due to his contract situation while others who might be implicated and involved to a greater extent are not impacted in any way.
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Ya me too. My post was about the fact that there has been very little info coming from the league or the press though. I've actually posted almost nothing about this subject before and have just been waiting until the process (legal & otherwise) unfolds and comes to an end. My stance has been to just wait, and I haven't presumed guilt or innocence.
 
JD1 said:
The NHL is in a pickle in this situation

Let's say there are 5 guys involved in the situation and it's more or less known what happened. 4 of them have contracts and are playing in the league. The league cannot do anything to the signed players in the absence of the players being charged. There's your presumption of innocence. The lawyers would otherwise have a field day if they were banned.

Formenton on the other hand did not have a contract. You're an old guy like me...do you remember a situation in the history of the franchise where there was a contract dispute with a prominent player where neither the team, the agent nor the player commented on it and the media didn't ask questions about it? I've never seen anything like this before. The only thing that adds up to me is all parties know the situation and no one is talking.

It really sucks for us... he's a very useful player. Here we are playing players that shouldn't be in the league and we've lost a solid young NHL player with nothing coming back in return.
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Oh I agree there could be more grey than anything when its all said and done and formally black balling a player from the league where there is insufficient evidence to formally charge him will be tricky ground for the NHL..

When Formenton was recently signed in the Swiss league.. the NHL and Hockey Canada were both consulted.. that was a few days before the latest reports. In that article announcing his signing.. they said there is no reason not to presume his innocence and that he had cooperated at every level. I am hoping that the timing of that is a good sign for Formenton and it gives me hope that because the situation was like a hot potato where because there was so little hard information available they stayed away from it. Many people have read the tea leaves and are more than willing to conclude that Formenton had some form of significant involvement. Its more usual than not for that to be the case from my experience discussing it. Dorion not signing Formenton or moving him brought on a slew of tweets condemning Formenton based on the tea leaves. I am holding out, hoping in the end he is not one of the 5 mentioned where charges could be laid. I would rather be on that side than on the side that is pronouncing him guilty already.
 
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Big Muddy said:
Ya me too. My post was about the fact that there has been very little info coming from the league or the press though. I've actually posted almost nothing about this subject before and have just been waiting until the process (legal & otherwise) unfolds and comes to an end. My stance has been to just wait, and I haven't presumed guilt or innocence.
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I agree. Punishment can be applied once there is proof that someone has done something improper.
 
Cosmix said:
I hope Formenton was not a key party in this situation and is not being victimized due to his contract situation while others who might be implicated and involved to a greater extent are not impacted in any way.
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I hope you are right ... BUT ... he played for the London Knights & likely knew of some puck bunnies that hung around the team or partied with the team. It's also likely that he was the one who invited Batherson up to the room given they were both drafted by Ottawa & knew each other. The optics certainly don't look good, but if he never gets charged with anything should Ottawa keep him or are the optics too much in Ottawa that forces them to trade him? Has he learned a lesson & should he be given a second chance? PD is in a tough spot here, Montreal has tried to give a couple of guys second chances & that hasn't gone well there. Given in a yr's time the optics could be different but who knows, it only takes one to make a big deal to push a negative spin & optics are important for NHL teams that could hurt their brand.
 
Adrianopolous said:
Ppg isn't enough anymore. We does not appear as an offensive threat whatsoever. That SO attempt was horrible also.
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I disagree. Bath has been driving a lot of plays. He's making more mistakes than last season, but he's been finding his groove.

I suspect he's probably pretty mentally stressed from the HC thing and it's probably difficult to play through.
 
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Sens of Anarchy said:
Thats how I feel about it too.
Anyway... Presumption of Innocence in Canada.. The dot connecting and guessing involvement is a presumption of guilt.
Let the cards fall.. Anyone guilty of non consensual sex or touching should be punished .. but I am not going to punish him because
a) he did not comment; b) Dorion did not sign him c) Dorion did not trade him d) the media has been quiet
Click to expand...
I’m sure he’ll be happy to hear you’re not punishing him :)
I don’t know how the news flows out there in Europe. I’m sure he’ll get the word at some point and give him some extra jump in his next game.
 
Drake is starting to look ‘involved’ and is playing with passion and purpose again.

He’s at his best when he uses his physical strength on the forecheck and his speed on the back check. To start the season he was doing none of this.

I’m starting to wonder if it was injury related and he’s starting to get fully healthy.
 
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Adrianopolous said:
Ppg isn't enough anymore. We does not appear as an offensive threat whatsoever. That SO attempt was horrible also.
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Are you kidding? Batherson is tied with DeBrincat with 33 pts each & Bath has one more goal. People are talking about DeBrincat making $8 mil while Bath is signed at $5 mil & is producing offensively just as well. Stutzle is going to make $8 mil next yr & Batherson is outscoring him. DeBrincat is slightly better defensively & is a little more polished but Bath is improving & last yr looked like he was a star in the making before the injury. Given what he makes he is doing better than fine, he's an offensive threat every time he has the puck in the o-zone especially on the PP.
 
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Adrianopolous said:
He's borderline unstartable at this point. Where is he?? Completely invisible. -26??
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Did you see that sweet backhand sauce through 3 Seattle players to stutzle for his hat trick goal?

Not invisible if you pay attention because you would have been excited about that pass.
 
jbeck5 said:
Did you see that sweet backhand sauce through 3 Seattle players to stutzle for his hat trick goal?

Not invisible if you pay attention because you would have been excited about that pass.
Click to expand...

It was a sweet pass but to be fair he was a passenger last night imo
 
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