Player Discussion Drake Batherson (RW) - Part II

[Do Make Say Think]

He's probably not good enough to be considered a part of the core.

He's starting to remind me of Hoffman. Useful one-dimensional player who will become a liability as soon as he slows down just a bit.

We really need him now so trading him would be silly, but I wouldn't have him in my long term plans.

 

[Samsquanch]

He's probably not good enough to be considered a part of the core.

He's starting to remind me of Hoffman. Useful one-dimensional player who will become a liability as soon as he slows down just a bit.

We really need him now so trading him would be silly, but I wouldn't have him in my long term plans.

Lol come on? Just no.

He's so much better than Hoffman in every conceivable way. Batherson can be a monster out there physically when he wants to. Yeah it's not close to being frequent enough, and yeah he tries to do too much a lot of times. But that's better than Hoffman who literally tried to do nothing other than skate forward and shoot pucks in the offensive zone.

You make it sound like he's not a valuable player to have on a team at his number. He's young and making mistakes to be sure this year, but he's also getting paid a great number for what he does offensively.

I'll wait to see what he becomes before we sign him again, but he's a welcome member of the team as long as we can afford him.

 

[GCK]

lol wtf

You’ve been insisting on our internal cap and league wide cap crunch and now you come up with this

Let’s trade the contract where we save basically 3 M$ per season!

Batherson is doing well offensively, his problem is on the other side of the puck. He’s not the only one struggling in that aspect; DeBrincat doesn’t have good metrics too.

I would look at the coaching staff and management first; they have shown through time that they have no idea how to improve that very important aspect of the game. I mean we have a GM who just traded an’ highly effective duo

Dj’s systems (or lack thereof?) are just efficient working well defensively

It has nothing to do with hockey.

 

[Oscar The Grouch]

Lol come on? Just no.

He's so much better than Hoffman in every conceivable way.

Hoffman was faster and had a better shot. Those are very conceivable ways. Looks like you're substantially wrong three sentences into your post.

 

[Sun God Nika]

lol wtf

You’ve been insisting on our internal cap and league wide cap crunch and now you come up with this

Let’s trade the contract where we save basically 3 M$ per season!

Batherson is doing well offensively, his problem is on the other side of the puck. He’s not the only one struggling in that aspect; DeBrincat doesn’t have good metrics too.

I would look at the coaching staff and management first; they have shown through time that they have no idea how to improve that very important aspect of the game. I mean we have a GM who just traded an’ highly effective duo

Dj’s systems (or lack thereof?) are just efficient working well defensively

I wouldn’t even respond to a take like that , not worth it

 

[coladin]

The OT goal looks bad, and he was tired.

But, considering the game he was playing, if I were coach he doesn’t see OT. Took a low percentage shot like they were playing 5 on 5, didn’t get off , and then gets caught by Johansson.

He knows what he has to do, and God knows what DJ is managing with him that has nothing to do with hockey.

But he did take him off PP1 following a poor PP earlier. But they ran out of heathy players.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Lol come on? Just no.

He's so much better than Hoffman in every conceivable way. Batherson can be a monster out there physically when he wants to. Yeah it's not close to being frequent enough, and yeah he tries to do too much a lot of times. But that's better than Hoffman who literally tried to do nothing other than skate forward and shoot pucks in the offensive zone.

You make it sound like he's not a valuable player to have on a team at his number. He's young and making mistakes to be sure this year, but he's also getting paid a great number for what he does offensively.

I'll wait to see what he becomes before we sign him again, but he's a welcome member of the team as long as we can afford him.

I said "he reminds me of Hoffman: useful but one dimensional", you may want to try reading more carefully.

Hoffman was mostly great offensively when he was here but he was also dreadful defensively. On a personal note, I found both Hoffman and Batherson mostly underwhelming in their first stints in the NHL but both proved me wrong big time after a becoming regulars.

The parallels seem obvious to me. It doesn't mean we should get rid of Batherson or that Batherson sucks or that Hoffman was better than Batherson.

 

[Masked]

I said "he reminds me of Hoffman: useful but one dimensional", you may want to try reading more carefully.

Except he is nothing like Hoffman and he's not one dimensional. You may want to try watching more carefully

Assen na yo!

 

[Tuna99]

Except he is nothing like Hoffman and he's not one dimensional. You may want to try watching more carefully

Assen na yo!

He’s better then Hoffman but he could be such a better impact player. If he played 2 way and was consistent shift to shift as a reliable neutral zone player who checked until his team had the puck back he’d be an impact player - at the moment he’s just a moody scorer

 

[GCK]

lol wtf

You’ve been insisting on our internal cap and league wide cap crunch and now you come up with this

Let’s trade the contract where we save basically 3 M$ per season!

Batherson is doing well offensively, his problem is on the other side of the puck. He’s not the only one struggling in that aspect; DeBrincat doesn’t have good metrics too.

I would look at the coaching staff and management first; they have shown through time that they have no idea how to improve that very important aspect of the game. I mean we have a GM who just traded an’ highly effective duo

Dj’s systems (or lack thereof?) are just efficient working well defensively

You have harped on keeping Connor Brown because Dorion should have been aware of the Formenton situation. I am of the opinion that Batherson should be moved due to the possibility he won’t be available next year. I think you called it foresight.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Except he is nothing like Hoffman and he's not one dimensional. You may want to try watching more carefully

Assen na yo!

If he isn't scoring he isn't doing anything and just like Hoffman, he is complete trash defensively. That is exactly the player Hoffman was when he was here.

He had a serious injury last year so that may be it, we shall see.

 

[Puikiou]

Imagine being eager to trade away a 24yo, PPG, 6'3" player making sub-5M/year instead of looking to implement an efficient team defense structure in a league where similar players make 7-9M/year...

 

[Adele Dazeem]

Yeah trading him would be ludicrous at this point. Debrincat on the other hand...

 

[SensontheRush]

You have harped on keeping Connor Brown because Dorion should have been aware of the Formenton situation. I am of the opinion that Batherson should be moved due to the possibility he won’t be available next year. I think you called it foresight.

I like to think the Sens wouldn't be marketing Batherson as much if he were significantly involved. He's getting more advertising than Stutzle, Giroux, DbC, Norris, etc. This isn't like NJD where they don't acknowledge McLeod's existence. We have marketable players we could put in his place.

The story broke May of last year. If Batherson were truly to be so significantly involved that it's possible he doesn't play next year, I just don't see why the Org would risk propping him up they way they have, because it would just blow up right in their face.

If he were to come out as one of the "five", then the Sens Org have spent the majority of the season shoving Drake in our face (especially in house/rink) knowing full well that the fanbase is wary. This isn't some scandal that has yet to come to light, this has dominated the news cycle for half a year now. I don't think the organization would risk something that's not only indefensible, but also without the cover of ignorance.

 

[Masked]

If he isn't scoring he isn't doing anything and just like Hoffman, he is complete trash defensively. That is exactly the player Hoffman was when he was here.

Hoffman was good at one thing - scoring. Batherson is a scorer, a playmaker and can be a physical presence.

Batherson's defensive game this year is so below what it had been in the past that I suspect there are other reasons for the issue. Be that as it may, he looks more like he doesn't know where he's supposed to be, unlike Hoffman who just didn't want to put in the effort.

And Batherson is still younger than Hoffman was when he established himself as an NHL player. Batherson is not a finished product, while Hoffman never really progressed once he made it to the NHL.

Assen na yo!

 

[Xspyrit]

It has nothing to do with hockey.

Are we not here to talk about hockey?

And have you decided that Batherson is guilty before innocent?

You have harped on keeping Connor Brown because Dorion should have been aware of the Formenton situation. I am of the opinion that Batherson should be moved due to the possibility he won’t be available next year. I think you called it foresight.

You or I are not able to JUDGE the situation. We have basically zero information and the law does not work like that. In Formenton's case, he was NOT under contract... There was no rush to trade Brown at the moment of the year where he had the LESS value.

I don't even know why I have to explain this. I am not paid to have foresight in Dorion's place

And the Dorion thing is a whole different subject, I am not going to explain why every year I complain about things that completely went over his head and how it materializes during the season and why we are still at barely the same point after all this time.

 

[GCK]

Are we not here to talk about hockey?

And have you decided that Batherson is guilty before innocent?



You or I are not able to JUDGE the situation. We have basically zero information and the law does not work like that. In Formenton's case, he was NOT under contract... There was no rush to trade Brown at the moment of the year where he had the LESS value.

I don't even know why I have to explain this. I am not paid to have foresight in Dorion's place

And the Dorion thing is a whole different subject, I am not going to explain why every year I complain about things that completely went over his head and how it materializes during the season and why we are still at barely the same point after all this time.

I don’t know if Batherson is involved or not but there are 4 players whose statements or lack thereof have no denial, they just say they are cooperating. 3 of those are rumoured to be getting charged.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I don’t know if Batherson is involved or not but there are 4 players whose statements or lack thereof have no denial, they just say they are cooperating. 3 of those are rumoured to be getting charged.

The rumour a while back was that Bath showed up, took a look around, had a slice of pizza, and left.

The lawyer for all 9 players explained publicly that there were two groups of players that had been in the hotel room at some point in the evening. One group that participated, and one group that didn’t and came and left at varying times.

It was speculated that Bath was in the group who showed up and then left without being involved.

It should be acknowledged that the team, and a ton of players, have a pretty good idea of what happened just from word of mouth around that time. Guys talk, and things get out. I don’t believe for a second that the team isn’t fully abreast of what his involvement is. They wouldn’t have him as a face of the team at all, and we all witnessed how they distanced themselves from Formenton.

Does anyone happen to know which other players that could have been involved are being iced out by their clubs?

 

[Samsquanch]

You have harped on keeping Connor Brown because Dorion should have been aware of the Formenton situation. I am of the opinion that Batherson should be moved due to the possibility he won’t be available next year. I think you called it foresight.

I don't blame Dorion at all for trading Brown when he did. It made sense then because he became a luxury we couldnt afford and wasnt going to resign anyways ffs... I have no idea what anyone in the organization knew about Formenton. Neither do you. Lmfao we still don't know today what anyone knows.

I harp on people that get up on a high horse and pretend they know all the facts and claim they would have had "the foresight" to do things differently....That's amateur hour stuff to make a definitive opinion on something you can't possibly know the details about.

For the record I'm okay with trading Batherson if we need to drop a top 6 player on the roster to make things work. I'd rather keep Debrincat if it comes down to it.

But I'm not okay with comparing him in any way to Mike Hoffman. The similarities end between them when you cross out the fact that they were both overaged wingers drafted by the Ottawa Senators.

 

[Samsquanch]

If he isn't scoring he isn't doing anything and just like Hoffman, he is complete trash defensively. That is exactly the player Hoffman was when he was here.

He had a serious injury last year so that may be it, we shall see.

Batherson probably has more hits this season than Hoffman does in his entire career. They are nothing alike. Hoffman has incredible speed and a rocket of a shot - and that's literally it.

Batherson has dirty hands and passes the puck as well as he can shoot it, and has the size/strength and reach to make plays down low and along the boards.

Mike Hoffman would have never been taken to play for team Team Canada due to his style of play and size, while Drake Batherson was a WJC star for them.

Yes Batherson is having a bad year defensively. Yes he needs work. That is not something unique or unusual for a top 6 player at his age in the NHL. And it's not just him and Hoffman alone on an island........Pretty much every NHL roster has a top 6 player that has questionable defense.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I like to think the Sens wouldn't be marketing Batherson as much if he were significantly involved. He's getting more advertising than Stutzle, Giroux, DbC, Norris, etc. This isn't like NJD where they don't acknowledge McLeod's existence. We have marketable players we could put in his place.

The story broke May of last year. If Batherson were truly to be so significantly involved that it's possible he doesn't play next year, I just don't see why the Org would risk propping him up they way they have, because it would just blow up right in their face.

If he were to come out as one of the "five", then the Sens Org have spent the majority of the season shoving Drake in our face (especially in house/rink) knowing full well that the fanbase is wary. This isn't some scandal that has yet to come to light, this has dominated the news cycle for half a year now. I don't think the organization would risk something that's not only indefensible, but also without the cover of ignorance.

There's also a case to be made that just being on the periphery of the off-ice incident can really play game with a person mentally. Like other posters say, guys talk...and I'm sure there's a lot of taking happening between members of that team behind the scenes. And probably a lot of discontent between guys directly involved, the "walked in and noped out" group, and the guys who were on the team and nowhere near that hotel room.

Then add in coming back from a significant injury last year and trying to get back on track with a team with several prominent new members....that's a lot to absorb at once. And some guys do require more time than others to figure it all out.

Bath has been very disappointing this season, but we also know he is capable of playing a lot better. He isn't a one-season wonder who was given a big contract purely on potential.

 

[Samsquanch]

There's also a case to be made that just being on the periphery of the off-ice incident can really play game with a person mentally. Like other posters say, guys talk...and I'm sure there's a lot of taking happening between members of that team behind the scenes. And probably a lot of discontent between guys directly involved, the "walked in and noped out" group, and the guys who were on the team and nowhere near that hotel room.

Then add in coming back from a significant injury last year and trying to get back on track with a team with several prominent new members....that's a lot to absorb at once. And some guys do require more time than others to figure it all out.

Bath has been very disappointing this season, but we also know he is capable of playing a lot better. He isn't a one-season wonder who was given a big contract purely on potential.

I agree with all of your post but this bolded part is actually hilarious when we frame it in context.

If Drake was +10 but had the same stat line he would be having an absolute monster of a year. Upper half of the leagues top 6 wingers. The actual margin between us labeling him as being hugely disappointing and a marvel on the ice is like very narrow lol

Like you said we saw him be our most consistent and dominant player at times last year before the injury. And he's still producing like a 1st line winger today. God forbid he was down around half a point per game - I'm sure the people of Ottawa would be getting their torches and pitchforks ready to run him out of town by now.......

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I agree with all of your post but this bolded part is actually hilarious when we frame it in context.

If Drake was +10 but had the same stat line he would be having an absolute monster of a year. Upper half of the leagues top 6 wingers. The actual margin between us labeling him as being hugely disappointing and a marvel on the ice is like very narrow lol

Like you said we saw him be our most consistent and dominant player at times last year before the injury. And he's still producing like a 1st line winger today. God forbid he was down around half a point per game - I'm sure the people of Ottawa would be getting their torches and pitchforks ready to run him out of town by now.......

lol, that's true.

I think a lot of it is timing. The brain farts this year seem to almost always result in goals against or major opportunities to score lost. Makes for a very interesting highlight (or lowlight reel. Very reminiscent how opposing fans ragged on Karlssonw hen he was with us. The oopsies always seem to get the most attention.

 

[Samsquanch]

lol, that's true.

I think a lot of it is timing. The brain farts this year seem to almost always result in goals against or major opportunities to score lost. Makes for a very interesting highlight (or lowlight reel. Very reminiscent how opposing fans ragged on Karlssonw hen he was with us. The oopsies always seem to get the most attention.

Agreed. You mentioned lots of great reasons why the guys head might be a little bit rattled from the injury and off ice stuff. And again he's making a very appropriate number for his production and age. If this is the worst it gets on his deal - then lol.

I just think this fanbase overall as whole needs to lower the bar for expectations sometimes on players. Its a tough, tough crowd. This is a fanbase that basically tried to run Spezza out of town for years until they actually did.

 

[umma gumma]

Agreed. You mentioned lots of great reasons why the guys head might be a little bit rattled from the injury and off ice stuff. And again he's making a very appropriate number for his production and age. If this is the worst it gets on his deal - then lol.

I just think this fanbase overall as whole needs to lower the bar for expectations sometimes on players. Its a tough, tough crowd. This is a fanbase that basically tried to run Spezza out of town for years until they actually did.

Yup.