Prospect Info: Draft Thread | Oilers Hold The 4th Overall Selection

[Zaddy]

This is one of the weirdest things I've read on here. I've seen quite a few highlight goals from Juolevi where he either A) Just does a 5 foot pass to a player to pick up an assist or B) Springs a forward forward and they blow by the defenceman.

He seems like he is a good possession player with a strong transition game. He just doesn't wow me in any way. With Klefbom and Sekera on the left side, is he going to be better then either of those guys or bring something they don't?

If he can be an Adam Larsson I'm okay picking him but is he that good?

Maybe it doesn't hurt his offense but it sure isn't the massive boost that some people claim it to be. London is a dominant team with maybe the 3 best offensive players in the OHL. In a situation like that it's not really Juolevis role to take risks offensively or play huge PP minutes. Chychrun and Sergachyov was much more reliant on being offensive catalysts on their respective teams than Juolevi was. When Juolevi was asked to play a bigger role at the World Juniors he thrived.

I don't think Adam Larsson is a very good comparison to Juolevi. T.J. Brodie is probably as close as you're gonna get with an NHL comparison but Juolevi is his own type of player, it's hard to really compare him to anyone.

 

[Raoul Duke]

I think marner and strome are good comparisons to Dubois and Tkachuk. I'd rather have hanifin, or provorov in our system. Both LD as well. It really is a great comparison. I don't know if Chychrun, joulevi, or sergachev is the best d. But if the Oilers can identify the best d I think they should take him.

I agree. Outside of trading the pick, that is.
The problem is whether or not our scouts can identify the right one.
As usual, the fan base focuses on the next exciting forward, and pencil him into next year's lineup.
Rinse, repeat.

 

[belair]

Seems like quite the polarizing player. Man do the people over on Montreal board seem to hate this kid for some reason. Personally I really like him, one of those elusive RH centres with size that teams covet.

Saw him a few times this year. He's a very flashy player and the comment about his motor I would say is spot on. But regardless of how much energy he burned, he never really got anything done in the games that I saw. Very fast, good puck-handler.

Sounds like Nail Yakupov.

 

[snipes]

Juolevi is so overrated. Massive reach at #4.

 

[Stud Muffin]

Juolevi is so overrated. Massive reach at #4.

May be a reach. But he's still better then Chychrun

 

[Ruok]

I know people are afraid to have another gagner, but tkachuk should have way more then 10% in this poll. Guy is a beast, just destroyed the OHL playoffs.

 

[dustrock]

McLeod seems like this year's Crouse. Sure he doesn't score that much, but what a "motor". Who cares. Doesn't score nearly enough for a top 10 pick.

His motor will give him a NHL career, but don't see him as a star. Not at #4.

Juolevi and McLeod will both be out of the top 10 on draft day I think.

 

[BarDownBobo]

McLeod seems like this year's Crouse. Sure he doesn't score that much, but what a "motor". Who cares. Doesn't score nearly enough for a top 10 pick.

His motor will give him a NHL career, but don't see him as a star. Not at #4.

Juolevi and McLeod will both be out of the top 10 on draft day I think.

McLeod seems like a guy who'd be a good target if Chia trades down once or twice and ends up in the 12-15 range while picking up a few more assets.

 

[McDNicks17]

I see some Larkin in McLeod.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

I know people are afraid to have another gagner, but tkachuk should have way more then 10% in this poll. Guy is a beast, just destroyed the OHL playoffs.

Schremp and Gagner have ruined my trust in Knights players

not that I don't think Tkachuk isn't a great prospect but I'm leery about him getting gobs of icetime and playing with Marner inflates his numbers

looknig forward to seeing him at the Memorial Cup...I've heard great things about his play...seems like a guy who plays with an edge but has tremendous skill to go with his grit

 

[Oiler11]

I hope Chia doesn't overthink this pick. For the 5th time in 7 years the Oilers will be able to select the best player from the CHL, a great spot to be in. Unless someone knocks his socks off, keep the pick and draft the BPA, even if it is a forward.

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

Schremp and Gagner have ruined my trust in Knights players

not that I don't think Tkachuk isn't a great prospect but I'm leery about him getting gobs of icetime and playing with Marner inflates his numbers

looknig forward to seeing him at the Memorial Cup...I've heard great things about his play...seems like a guy who plays with an edge but has tremendous skill to go with his grit

Is the lesson there to not trust Knights players? Or to not draft midgets with skating issues in the first round? Or to be wary of junior centers playing with elite wingers like Kane and Perry?


Part of me still thinks Gagner wasn't that bad of a selection, he was a very good player for his age when we got him, our inability to get him to improve from what he was when we got him was what made things go sour.


We've actually drafted a lot of Knights players over the years e.g. Danny Syvret, Alex Henry, & Kyle Platzer. We only have one stand out though in Steve Smith.

 

[thadd]

While I'd be happy with Dubois, I'd rather go with the best d-man available.
We've never had much of a problem getting forwards (yeah not a good balance of the right types I know, but still) but d-men have been a problem.

Let's just draft the d-man.
So when we're stacked full with d-men and someone else is hurting for one we can get them to overpay.

 

[Hemsky4PM]

In spite of Tkachuk's amazing playoff, I still lean towards Dubois. He's bigger, plays C and W, plays a chippy game like Tkachuk and is younger by about 6 months. I have no doubt that both players will be good to great NHLers.

For people worried that Dubois didn't produce huge playoff numbers, remember that Tyler Seguin had 10 points in 9 games with Plymouth the year Hall had 35 points in 19 games with Windsor and won his second Mem Cup MVP. The team your on has a major impact on your production. Dubois still managed a respectable 12 points in 12 playoff games with Cape Breton.

Tkachuk and Dubois are both fantastic prospects. I'm going to be happy to add either to the Oilers and would be very wary of trading either for a 2nd pairing D-man, which I think should be acquirable through smart scouting. Look at the guys who shake loose every year: Stralman, Daley, Oduya, Polak, Beauchemin, Leddy, Boychuk. The Oilers need to solve their scouting and player evaluation issues before moving to desperation moves like trading top 5 picks for "ok" players.

 

[Zaddy]

While I'd be happy with Dubois, I'd rather go with the best d-man available.
We've never had much of a problem getting forwards (yeah not a good balance of the right types I know, but still) but d-men have been a problem.

Let's just draft the d-man.
So when we're stacked full with d-men and someone else is hurting for one we can get them to overpay.

Honestly, I don't think any of the d-men available this year are good enough to be picked at #4. Go with a forward or trade down if you absolutely have to take a d-man.

 

[The Safe Play]

Taking one of the defenceman at 4 isn't a good move. If there was a RHD ranked that high I could maybe see it happening. But we are so deep in LHD prospects it's overkill. We are lacking good forward prospects and RHD prospects.

 

[Halibut]

I hope Chia doesn't overthink this pick. For the 5th time in 7 years the Oilers will be able to select the best player from the CHL, a great spot to be in. Unless someone knocks his socks off, keep the pick and draft the BPA, even if it is a forward.

Because that's worked so well so far?

Trade the pick (including trading down) or pick the best d-man.

 

[I am the Liquor]

Is the lesson there to not trust Knights players? Or to not draft midgets with skating issues in the first round? Or to be wary of junior centers playing with elite wingers like Kane and Perry?


Part of me still thinks Gagner wasn't that bad of a selection, he was a very good player for his age when we got him, our inability to get him to improve from what he was when we got him was what made things go sour.


We've actually drafted a lot of Knights players over the years e.g. Danny Syvret, Alex Henry, & Kyle Platzer. We only have one stand out though in Steve Smith.

No. Sam Gagner was fully developed when he got here. He wasn't "rushed", and we didn't "ruin" him, he just didn't have anywhere to go. He had maxed out his potential.

That was a scouting error. We should have picked someone who still had some potential to develop. Like PK Subban, or Logan Couture.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Because that's worked so well so far?

Trade the pick (including trading down) or pick the best d-man.

it has

unless you think the reason the Oilers are failures is because of their rookies and young players

 

[HeavyHitter99]

No. Sam Gagner was fully developed when he got here. He wasn't "rushed", and we didn't "ruin" him, he just didn't have anywhere to go. He had maxed out his potential.

That was a scouting error. We should have picked someone who still had some potential to develop. Like PK Subban, or Logan Couture.

Wow give me a break, no player is maxed out at 17/18. It wasn't a ****ing scouting error either. Gagner had a lot of skill but major flaws in his game that the team ignored and decided to throw him right into a top 6 role. But at the same time Gagner didn't take the time to improve his game either and still left with below average speed for his size, poor defensive play, lack of strength and poor face off ability. The talent was there as was the potential.

It's silly to say we should have picked Subban, he was consistently ranked as a 2nd rounder and everyone would have freaked out if we picked him top 10. It's easy to use hindsight to say who should have been picked. But it's funny that you mention those 2 because they followed the exact same development path after being drafted. They both had major flaws in their games (like Gagner) but both played another 2 years in the OHL after being drafted and then they both played full seasons in the AHL with a little bit of call up time. They stepped onto their teams at around 21 more mature, complete and stronger than they were at 17/18. If Subban was thrown into the NHL at 17/18 he would have been chewed up and spat out with how terrible his defensive play was. Couture was supposed to challenge for 1st overall before the 2007 draft but was a major disappointment in his draft year but still he was given 3 years after to develop and refine his game and then he was able to step into the NHL consistently.

Saying Gagner didn't have the potential to develop at 17/18, especially with all the flaws in his game, is just plain silly. We rushed him and he ignored his flaws and barely improved.

 

[belair]

If anything, Gagner was a victim of that stupid AHL rule that disallows them to play there until they've graduated from junior. By the time Gagner was eligible to play for our farm team he would've been three years into his professional career.

Sending him back to London would've been a waste and in Edmonton he was relied on to provide primary scoring. In hindsight, him ironing out his defensive faults would've been a pretty substantial ask with what was already in front of him.

 

[Halibut]

it has

unless you think the reason the Oilers are failures is because of their rookies and young players

The team is a failure because they havent picked up the pieces they needed instead they've always drafted the consensus BPA at the top of the draft. The thought was you could always trade that BP for the pieces you need and that has proved to not be true. The Yak pick is the obvious worst move. Totally redundant piece with to many inexperienced offence first wingers already, instead we should have traded down or taken a d-man. Go back and look at the Yak draft and the d-men that went in those spots we're projecting Juolevi, Chychrun and Sergachev. Rielly, Lindholm, Trouba, even Ceci and Matta you couldn't get straight up for Yak now. We all laughed at the Leafs when they said they were really happy to get Rielly at 5 because they thought he was the best player in the draft, turns out nobody who drafted ahead of them got a better player.

We cant be afraid to take a d-man at 4 just because he's not rated that high.

 

[McWeber]

The team is a failure because they havent picked up the pieces they needed instead they've always drafted the consensus BPA at the top of the draft. The thought was you could always trade that BP for the pieces you need and that has proved to not be true. The Yak pick is the obvious worst move. Totally redundant piece with to many inexperienced offence first wingers already, instead we should have traded down or taken a d-man. Go back and look at the Yak draft and the d-men that went in those spots we're projecting Juolevi, Chychrun and Sergachev. Rielly, Lindholm, Trouba, even Ceci and Matta you couldn't get straight up for Yak now. We all laughed at the Leafs when they said they were really happy to get Rielly at 5 because they thought he was the best player in the draft, turns out nobody who drafted ahead of them got a better player.

We cant be afraid to take a d-man at 4 just because he's not rated that high.

What about Murray? He was the guy we were taking if not Yak. They were also very high in Reinhart and Rielly. Its easy in hindsight to say we should have traded down and gotten a D but at the time the majority of the fanbase wanted the consensus #1 pick. It is also well known we used our second round picks based on need moreso than BPA. Musil was chosen because we needed D even though the scouts all wanted Jenner or Saad. I really don't think we went wrong taking Hall, RNH or Mcdavid 1st OA and going forward I prefer we take the best PROSPECT available and obtain the actual NHL players we need to fill out the roster.

 

[Birdperson]

If anything, Gagner was a victim of that stupid AHL rule that disallows them to play there until they've graduated from junior. By the time Gagner was eligible to play for our farm team he would've been three years into his professional career.

Sending him back to London would've been a waste and in Edmonton he was relied on to provide primary scoring. In hindsight, him ironing out his defensive faults would've been a pretty substantial ask with what was already in front of him.

I wonder how Gagner would have turned out if he went to the NCAA like he was originally planning to. 1 year in the USHL then 1 or 2 at the University of Wisconsin might have been better than 1 year in the OHL then straight to the NHL.

 

[belair]

I wonder how Gagner would have turned out if he went to the NCAA like he was originally planning to. 1 year in the USHL then 1 or 2 at the University of Wisconsin might have been better than 1 year in the OHL then straight to the NHL.

Its a legitimate question.

One thing is for certain, it likely would've saved Katz a few million dollars.