Draft and UDFA Thread 2018-19: Part VIII (No Kakko/Hughes Talk)

[Joey Bones]

They drafted a goalie at the top of the second round last season.

That goalie looks to be the starter in Mora, ATM....

 

[wafflepadsave]

Well I'll be surprised if they get #17 for Kreider

Sure wouldn’t hurt for him to play really well at the worlds.

 

[Joey Bones]

Cajkovic is a bit intriguing. Can be a bit of a Tolvanen type, if he takes another step and keeps delivering at the next step it will be hard to point at a good excuse you had for passing him up. His tool box is complete, very good shot and great speed. No immediate flaws.

But he is still a kid I would be much more excited about getting late.

Suzuki has — when I’ve seen him in three occasions in international hockey — totally tackled off against he top nations.

I wouldn't consider Tolvanen as a comparable to Cajkovic. Cajkovic is a north-south guy and can play in a good middling role as a complimentary depth player. I read someone's analysis (don't remember on HF or elsewhere) comparing him to Pominville. I think that's a more accurate assessment!!

 

[wafflepadsave]

I think they could easily get 14 from Arizona

Agreed for no other reason than desperation

 

[Mikos87]

What I've heard regarding this draft is that there is going to be a run on defensemen. Not sure when, but by the time the rangers pick with a 2nd... Some of those potential steals might not be there.

 

[wafflepadsave]

I am really uncertain about Kreider’s value.

In theory getting a season out of him should add value but there is increased risk - both injury and that the team dealing for him won’t even make the playoffs.

One of the reason rentals garner first round picks is because there is a clearer view of player health and a clearer view of where the acquirer’s draft pick will end up due to how the season is going.

If a team trades for Kreider and it looks like they might miss the playoffs, couldn’t they turnaround and flip him at the deadline?

 

[Zibanejbread]

What I've heard regarding this draft is that there is going to be a run on defensemen. Not sure when, but by the time the rangers pick with a 2nd... Some of those potential steals might not be there.

2nd round pick or 2nd Rangers pick in the first?

 

[Mikos87]

2nd round pick or 2nd Rangers pick in the first?

2nd rounder.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Has York falling to us at 20 and us picking him. While I think he will be a good player, do we really draft another smaller offensive defenseman with DeAngelo and Fox? I have to say I don't see that happening.

 

[Edge]

Has York falling to us at 20 and us picking him. While I think he will be a good player, do we really draft another smaller offensive defenseman with DeAngelo and Fox? I have to say I don't see that happening.

I dunno, on the left side, York would arguably become the most naturally inclined toward offense.

Outside of a handful of forwards not on Craig’s list, York is probably on the higher end of the upside spectrum at that spot.

 

[DutchShamrock]

What I've heard regarding this draft is that there is going to be a run on defensemen. Not sure when, but by the time the rangers pick with a 2nd... Some of those potential steals might not be there.

Outside if the obvious of drafting a top 2 talent, I'm excited about the potential for a faller. So much talk about risers, another year of teams reaching for defense... someone has to fall for someone to rise. One of these center targets may fall to #20.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

2nd rounder. I like what he brings to the table with size, speed and skill. But there's a part of me that thinks he'll stall at the pro level. I think he'll make a very good bottom 6 forward like Brodziak, but it's a good gamble to take outside the 1st, IMO.

Since 2000, only 2 players aged 20 or higher were drafted in the 1st round. Viktor Tikhonov (ARI) and Tanner Pearson (LAK).

Is Leason really worth a 1st round pick?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

They drafted a goalie at the top of the second round last season.

A good goalie prospect

 

[egelband]

I think :20-:24 could also be said about Dach and Cozens.

:45-:51 does sound like Newhook to me, too. Or one of Kakko/Hughes

They were talking about Gropp the whole time.

 

[FinnishSniper]

If you guys were to trade Kreider, what do you think would be the return?

 

[Ola]

I wouldn't consider Tolvanen as a comparable to Cajkovic. Cajkovic is a north-south guy and can play in a good middling role as a complimentary depth player. I read someone's analysis (don't remember on HF or elsewhere) comparing him to Pominville. I think that's a more accurate assessment!!

I meant more like in terms of being a kid that might go lower in the draft and then shooting up the ranks fast after it, making a lot of people look pretty bad for not having him higher to start with.

As for what type of player he is, underlying he is a skill guy, but I don’t think he neglect any areas of the game.

 

[Heckler81]

If you guys were to trade Kreider, what do you think would be the return?

Hayes type deal.

A 1st and a young player.

Maybe if we did it before the season. We could get the above deal plus a conditional pick. 1st round pick if team makes SCF, 2nd round pick for conference finals, and etc.

 

[Kovalev27]

That goalie looks to be the starter in Mora, ATM....

Is that close to Winterfell?

 

[Kovalev27]

By the way let’s mot rule out Lavoie who is torching the playoffs big righty shot wing/center with wheels. At 20 he’d be a great pick.

 

[Ola]

I dunno, on the left side, York would arguably become the most naturally inclined toward offense.

Outside of a handful of forwards not on Craig’s list, York is probably on the higher end of the upside spectrum at that spot.

Hands down, OTOH these kids are dime a dozen out there... Erik Gustafsson played in the AHL at 26 last season, and this year scored 60 pts in the NHL.

Finding that LD who is solid offensively despite being small and having issues defensively won't be hard in 5.10 years time. If we had an opening now -- we haven't had an opening at LD for which a vet hasn't been in line for or more often multiple vets since like the 90s, besides shorter stints like after the deadline last season -- I don't think the cost for filling it would be high. While the cost for finding the same C, RD or RW would be astronomical.

I am all for getting a top LD that we really really like, think can become a good No 1. I am not so sure that Cam York actually is at that level. He is more solid across the board instead of excellent in any one area.

 

[Ola]

By the way let’s mot rule out Lavoie who is torching the playoffs big righty shot wing/center with wheels. At 20 he’d be a great pick.

Yeah, and not just because he is scoring pts in the POs in the Q, but especially because he is a kid who is a pretty smart and effective player -- even when not having a big goto role.

That is were many went wrong with Brady Tkachuk last season. They looked at how well Brady played in a goto role and noticed that he didn't excel in all areas, and since many other kids who are built for that type of role and thrives in them, did a lot better than Brady they thought that Brady like deserved to go in the 2nd round (by the sound of it at least)...

Very few players can play that dominating style in the NHL. Most high scoring players only function in a good situation for them in which they get support in many areas from good line-mates, and without that strong support their production would drop a lot. OTOH, 10-15 guys in the Q -- or is it 20-30? -- can be as dominating as prime Jagr was in the NHL. Its just totally irrelevant how a player does in that type of roles, they won't come close to it in the NHL anyway.

I think many are making the same mistake with Lavioe. They look at him on the ice were he is assuming that Jagr in his prime role and see that he isn't optimal in that role. But that is totally irrelevant. If he plays another year in the Q and then a year in the AHL before he comes to the NHL and plays 2 years at the highest level at 20-22 -- I think you will be able to count on one hand how many times he has the puck longer than a couple of seconds during those two years. EVEN if he is a success and scores 50-60 pts.

 

[Leetch3]

That goalie looks to be the starter in Mora, ATM....

Mora got relegated so its not in the SHL this year which is a bummer but still good to see he'll be the starter. hopefully he stays healthy this year and actually plays.

i'm over caring about 'wasting' the draft pick, all the other guys we've gotten certainly helps...now i'm just rooting for him to develop and make us all look dumb for being upset

 

[BKGooner]

is 20 to early to look at Fagemo? I think when you start getting past like pick 45 it's too late to consider him. Let's say we do move Kreider to get to like 10 -15 and can take Newhook or Zegras ( or a wing if the Devs let the Rangers win the lose for Hughes), I think getting another solid wing is a good plan. Hopefully 3 cost controlled top 6 players from one draft is huge. Seider is intriguing because of his size, but all the other d seem like interchangeable parts for guys that are already in the system.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

is 20 to early to look at Fagemo? I think when you start getting past like pick 45 it's too late to consider him. Let's say we do move Kreider to get to like 10 -15 and can take Newhook or Zegras ( or a wing if the Devs let the Rangers win the lose for Hughes), I think getting another solid wing is a good plan. Hopefully 3 cost controlled top 6 players from one draft is huge. Seider is intriguing because of his size, but all the other d seem like interchangeable parts for guys that are already in the system.

Let's put it this way:

When you draft a kid from Sweden around 20, you expect him to hit 20 points in their D+1 year. Fagemo has already done that. Instead of hoping, you have the certainty and Fagemo has already completed that 1st step in his development.

Overagers aren't always a bad thing. You just have to look at it with the context you have, not in a vacuum. Brett Leason is a different story to me. How many career AHL players had 80-90 points in juniors as a 20-year old?

 

[Lays]

Let's put it this way:

When you draft a kid from Sweden around 20, you expect him to hit 20 points in their D+1 year. Fagemo has already done that. Instead of hoping, you have the certainty and Fagemo has already completed that 1st step in his development.

Overagers aren't always a bad thing. You just have to look at it with the context you have, not in a vacuum. Brett Leason is a different story to me. How many career AHL players had 80-90 points in juniors as a 20-year old?

Leason didn’t get carried by one of the best players in his respective league like Fagemo did though. Fagemo played a lot with SHL scoring leader Ryan Lasch on the PP and at even strength. Leason also looked better than Fagemo at the WJC (though he is a double overager)
Leason also scored near Cody Glass’ PPG. Glass was selected 6th overall in 2017, Leason’s draft year and played with Joachim Blichfeld who won WHL player of the year and led their team in points. Leason led his own team in points without another offensive juggernaut on his team
Also when comparing Leason and Fagemo, Leason has better size and can play C, skating good as well. Both have similar upside as well, I don’t think they have legit top 6 potential but I see both as complimentary middle 6ers