Draft and UDFA Thread 2018-19: Part VIII (No Kakko/Hughes Talk)

[Amazing Kreiderman]

FWIW: I compiled a list of trades in the salary cap era of teams trading up from 16-21 using only draft picks

 

[Ghost of jas]

So, now I want the Stars to re-sign Zucc and then Dallas to suck next year,

 

[Ola]

Performances like today are why Seider is likely going to go higher than I'd feel comfortable taking him. The entire package is just so tantalizing that if it all comes together, he's a nightmare.

He could be an really interesting option with Winnipeg's pick. You deal Shatty ASAP, retaining and giving up assets, who cares. Pionk can get destroyed in a role that is too big the coming 2 seasons. Seider spends another year in Germany and then a year in the AHL. Would he be ready to replace Pionk? That time-table maybe way to optimistic, but I am starting to feel more comfortable with our size on the blueline if we had Skjei, Miller, Hajak and Seider next to TDA and Fox...

 

[Ola]

Seider’s concussions scare me off a bit but I agree.

I think its so hard to know nowadays, teams are often extremely cautious. Like you see a kid missing a game due to a concussion sit in the stands laughing and looking 100% healthy the day after taking the hit. That is probably great by the team and its doctors, but it does changes the goal-posts quite much for when its time to start to worry about concussions.

 

[Lays]

I think its so hard to know nowadays, teams are often extremely cautious. Like you see a kid missing a game due to a concussion sit in the stands laughing and looking 100% healthy the day after taking the hit. That is probably great by the team and its doctors, but it does changes the goal-posts quite much for when its time to start to worry about concussions.

I mentioned earlier that I might've been wrong on Seider's concussions, looks like it was his shoulder

 

[Ola]

I mentioned earlier that I might've been wrong on Seider's concussions, looks like it was his shoulder

Srry, missed it, sorry for bringing it up against.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

FWIW: I compiled a list of trades in the salary cap era of teams trading up from 16-21 using only draft picks

70th overall to move up 3 spots makes sense to me. That is what smart gm does, a dumb gm will use a 2nd rounder.

77 and 181 to move up 4 spots that we can only dream of.

 

[Ghost of jas]

So, who has higher upside, has the higher skill level and more boom potential- Broberg or Heinola?

 

[True Blue]

Dallas first rounder dream is out of the window, now watch us trash the 2nd rounder to move up 2-3 spots.

Trash? How so? If trading a second round pick means moving up 3 spots to get a player that they think highly of, why not do it? That's what they did to get Miller.

# WeNeverGetaGoodMove

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

70th overall to move up 3 spots makes sense to me. That is what smart gm does, a dumb gm will use a 2nd rounder.

77 and 181 to move up 4 spots that we can only dream of.

That's not how it works, but I am not surprised I have to say this to you. The value of trading up, depends on the GM of the other team. Some of those examples I listed were actually initiated by a team that wanted to trade down, which lowers the price.

Example: Rangers trade up from 26 to 22 last year at the cost of 48th overall (2nd round pick). Right after that, Toronto decides to trade down and finds a team in St Louis willing to be a trade partner. They pay a 3rd rounder to swap picks.

 

[Ghost of jas]

That's not how it works, but I am not surprised I have to say this to you. The value of trading up, depends on the GM of the other team. Some of those examples I listed were actually initiated by a team that wanted to trade down, which lowers the price.

Example: Rangers trade up from 26 to 22 last year at the cost of 48th overall (2nd round pick). Right after that, Toronto decides to trade down and finds a team in St Louis willing to be a trade partner. They pay a 3rd rounder to swap picks.

Gorton paid the historic market price to move up. Dubas undersold his asset.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

So, who has higher upside, has the higher skill level and more boom potential- Broberg or Heinola?

Broberg.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Gorton should have waited with the Fox trade until the Dallas series is over now he traded away our top 2nd round pick which was almost as good as a late 1st rounder instead of making them take Dallas's 2nd round pick.

So far these conditional returns on our assets are coming up empty for us and bringing us less returns on our assets. Maybe he should stop them in future trades or he has some gambling fetish?

 

[Fugazy]

So, who has higher upside, has the higher skill level and more boom potential- Broberg or Heinola?

Broberg.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

That's not how it works, but I am not surprised I have to say this to you. The value of trading up, depends on the GM of the other team. Some of those examples I listed were actually initiated by a team that wanted to trade down, which lowers the price.

Example: Rangers trade up from 26 to 22 last year at the cost of 48th overall (2nd round pick). Right after that, Toronto decides to trade down and finds a team in St Louis willing to be a trade partner. They pay a 3rd rounder to swap picks.

Not only that, but the higher you want to trade up, the more its going to cost.

Gorton isn't afraid to overpay in order to get his guy though.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Broberg.

So, here’s what I want to happen- draft Kakko, and the trade Kreider to draft Newhook and then move up for Broberg. Get the future 1B center and high end LHD which the organization doesn’t currently have. Then hope Dallas sucks next after re-signing Zuccarello, and hope the Rangers end up with two top ten picks. Not too much to ask.

 

[Rangerfan4life90]

Gorton should have waited with the Fox trade until the Dallas series is over now he traded away our top 2nd round pick which was almost as good as a late 1st rounder instead of making them take Dallas's 2nd round pick.

So far these conditional returns on our assets are coming up empty for us and bringing us less returns on our assets. Maybe he should stop them in future trades or he has some gambling fetish?

I will say that I'm a bit surprised Gorton didn't wait to see how the Dallas would have unfolded, but still really glad we have Adam Fox.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I will say that I'm a bit surprised Gorton didn't wait to see how the Dallas would have unfolded, but still really glad we have Adam Fox.

Grots probably knows he’s got another 1st in his pocket when he trades Kreider. Plus, it’s obvious that the Rangers see Fox being better than any player they could get at 37 or trade up to get from that spot.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Some teams who for whatever reason fall in love with some player who would like be available in the late 2nd round are willing to trade down for whatever return they can get because they would draft that player either way.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Some teams who for whatever reason fall in love with some player who would like be available in the late 2nd round are willing to trade down for whatever return they can get because they would draft that player either way.

So Gorton shouldn’t rely on conditionals, but you’d rely on the off chance of someone wanting to trade down for whatever they can get?

 

[Beacon]

We don't need quantity anymore. We have enough depth in the pool. Getting Kakko and another top 15 or so prospect is more ideal than Kakko, 19/20, and a bunch of lesser prospects.

A lesser prospect could be lesser because he has a lower ceiling or a lower floor. Chytil was a lower prospect in 2017 than Lias, but he had a higher ceiling.

What's better: to draft 2 players who have a 25% chance each to be top-6 and only 10% chance of being bottom-6, or to trade those 2 picks and draft a guy who has a 20% chance of being top-6, but another 70% to be a bottom-6er?

 

[True Blue]

Grots probably knows he’s got another 1st in his pocket when he trades Kreider. Plus, it’s obvious that the Rangers see Fox being better than any player they could get at 37 or trade up to get from that spot.

IF Krieder is traded. But, yes.

Look I may not love the price for Fox. But as I have said, Gorton is executing his plan and vision with no regards of how the fans think or feel. He is doing it with a cold-hearted calculation. Yes, he could have waited for Fox, but he identified the asset he wanted and executed the acquisition. That is what he has done in all of his trades. Some will work, some won't. But he is not shooting from the hip here. He pounces when he sees what he wants in striking distance. All of the moves that have been made from drafts to trades, have been done with a vision. He seemingly has carte-blanche to execute his vision. And that is what he is doing. No matter what the articles say he is going to do or should do. And no matter how the fans feel about it.

 

[True Blue]

So, who has higher upside, has the higher skill level and more boom potential- Broberg or Heinola?

Brogerg, but would rather have Seider. But not with the Jets pick. As such, am content to hope that the second rounders are Korzac and Beecher.

 

[offdacrossbar]

this draft should not even consider any dman not named bowen byram.

this seider love fest is over the top. this kid has great size and measurables for sure but he's raw and would be a project no different than our own key miller. do we need another one over a forward ? why the sudden love fest ?

this draft should be speed and talent and high hockey iq. and all forwards. period.

after byram, there isnt a dman we must have early/mid 1st other than maybe broberg.... and thats not over some of the better forwards.

sure, some of the more polished euro skating modern 2 way guys would be good late 1st/early 2nd like a bjornfot or thomson but that's about it.

the team dynamic has been adjusted with adam fox signed. hes gonna play next yr along with hajek.

miller, lundqvist and keane soon.

theres good value late 1/early 2 if you want a dman no need to reach there.

 

[Off Sides]

I'm not sure I like Broberg enough to move up for.

Depends on how the draft breaks yet I'm not sure I really love any of the defenders past Byram enough to move up for. More like if they are there at whichever pick then pick the one they liked best seems to make sense.

Turcotte, Byram, Cozens, Zegras, Dach, Newhook are the only ones in my view worth them paying or even maybe overpaying to move up for.

Past them I think Boldy, Krebs, Podkolzin, Caufield, Suzuki, Tomasino, Dorofeyev, Brink, etc are fine forward picks yet more risky or lesser ceiling in one way or another. On D York, Broberg, Seider, Robertson, Soderstrom, Bjornfot, Heinola, etc are fine picks, yet again not sure worth moving up for.