Draft and UDFA Thread 2018-19: Part VII (No Kakko/Hughes Talk)

[mike14]

The only way we move Shattenkirk is if we find a similar contract, with similar term.

Lucic

 

[bl02]

Kreider has an 11 team no trade list. Perhaps we should remember that he has a degree of control over some potential moves.

You're telling me he wouldn't wanna go to buffalo or Edmonton??? lol

 

[Minmonster]

I would package pick 22 (approx) and 37 if Broberg or Newhook fall to the teens

 

[McRanger]

If scouts think Shattenkirk is physically compromised then he likely has zero value.

But that’s pretty much the only thing (besides his movement clauses) that would keep teams from taking a flier on him.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

If scouts think Shattenkirk is physically compromised then he likely has zero value.

But that’s pretty much the only thing (besides his movement clauses) that would keep teams from taking a flier on him.

Aside from his 6.6M cap hit.

 

[McRanger]

Aside from his 6.6M cap hit.

I actually doubt that would factor in for non-contenders that won’t approach the upper limit, teams that usually have a problem attracting free agents.

Not that it matters, the Rangers would definitely retain. Id be shocked if they’re anywhere near the upper limit for the next two seasons.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

I actually doubt that would factor in for non-contenders that won’t approach the upper limit, teams that usually have a problem attracting free agents.

Not that it matters, the Rangers would definitely retain. Id be shocked if they’re anywhere near the upper limit for the next two seasons.

I think there’s a better chance they stick it out and see if he rebounds than trading him for a few eh draft picks (if they can even get that). He only has two years left. And it’s not like there’s anyone slamming on the door. I’d rather see Shattenkirk out there on the third pair than Pionk, that’s for sure.

I thought he was pretty awful this season but I won’t completely write him off after something like a knee injury. I think he may be in for a bounce back season. Or I hope.

I’d rather keep him and hope for that to happen, hoping he can rebuild his value. There’s no reason to sell low. We don’t need the space.

 

[McRanger]

I think there’s a better chance they stick it out and see if he rebounds than trading him for a few eh draft picks (if they can even get that). He only has two years left. And it’s not like there’s anyone slamming on the door. I’d rather see Shattenkirk out there on the third pair than Pionk, that’s for sure.

I thought he was pretty awful this season but I won’t completely write him off after something like a knee injury. I think he may be in for a bounce back season. Or I hope.

I’d rather keep him and hope for that to happen, hoping he can rebuild his value. There’s no reason to sell low. We don’t need the space.

I’m good either way.

If they trade him now that probably means some middling asset is coming back and while that would ensure more Pionk I don’t think it will matter much next season anyway.

If they don’t maybe he bounces back and has value... and if he doesn’t it won’t matter much with 1 year left.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

I’d try to trade up to get Soderstrom or York. Go for the highest quality players this draft. There is enough quantity in the system.

Kakko (I’m hoping it’s him) can be on the ice in game 1 of next season. It changes the dynamic of the rebuild.

 

[Ola]

It’s noteable that Kravy, Ziba, Buch and Chytil are real big players.

Tampa for example does not have a single forward bigger than 6’1. The four mentioned above are all 6’2 or bigger. And none are that offensive dynamo forward with a great engine that can fill the role of a possession driver type.

If we are to trade up to target someone, I think this must be kept in mind.

 

[Inferno]

I don't care if some posters gave up on Andersson already, shame on you if you give up on a 20 year old already, but there is no way i'm including him in any deal. We are rebuilding, let the chips falls as they do. Not every player develops into a impactful NHLer by 20..in fact almost none do except the star players.

the islanders traded a 4oa young player to get a mid first and a 2nd..

Being a gm is about getting as much value from any player before they become a depreciating asset.

rangers need to decide if lias is an appreciating...or depreciating asset....personally I’d say depreciating...but I’m not all that firm on that yet....

If you can move him to get a top 10 pick...I’m not sure how you don’t. Lias hasn’t really shown anything at the nhl level that says top 6 player.

 

[Inferno]

Keep shatty...you still need vets.

 

[Ori]

It’s noteable that Kravy, Ziba, Buch and Chytil are real big players.

Tampa for example does not have a single forward bigger than 6’1. The four mentioned above are all 6’2 or bigger. And none are that offensive dynamo forward with a great engine that can fill the role of a possession driver type.

If we are to trade up to target someone, I think this must be kept in mind.

Yes true a great point @Ola.

 

[egelband]

That's also kind of why I'd love to find a way to nab one of the centers we were initially talking about.

Aside from the fact that I really like them as players, it has the added bonus of also being good fit organizationally as well. That's always the best of both worlds, when a player is arguably the top player still on the board, and a guy who makes sense based on how your team is being constructed.

This this the kind of situation where "need" is a factor in drafting.

 

[egelband]

If we agreed to take Lucic I'd want assurances that he would waive his NMC for the expansion draft. Don't want to have to waste a protection slot on him. Not pinning my hopes on a compliance buyout.

Very good idea.

 

[AIexisLafreniereNYR]

Lord please, I’m really hoping Jets get knocked out early, Dallas make a run and TBL win.. we’d look at

2
16-19
27-29
31

In the first round... Usually teams who select early are mainly done for the draft but knowing we’d have 3 more picks would be fun as heck to stay tuned.

 

[Irishguy42]

I think a pro scout would know more than you would about Shattenkirk’s value, yes

His opinion certainly carries more weight than yours. It’s also probably far more informed and partially reflects the opinions of at least some others in the profession.

I also highly doubt the scout is "far more informed" but you do you, baby.

 

[pld459666]

While I get the desire to get another top 10 pick, I think I'd prefer to keep the assets needed to do that and spend that draft capital for a young defender currently in the NHL.

 

[SA16]

I wouldn't be surprised if Shattenkirk has poor value but that tells you more about how poor the GMs are in the league than his play.

And that is yet another reason why it almost always advantageous to trade away mid round picks. You can get quality players for almost nothing.

I also don't see any reason why a scout would have an accurate gauge of a players value. Particularly with a sample size of 1.0.

 

[Tawnos]

I wouldn't be surprised if Shattenkirk has poor value but that tells you more about how poor the GMs are in the league than his play.

And that is yet another reason why it almost always advantageous to trade away mid round picks. You can get quality players for almost nothing.

I also don't see any reason why a scout would have an accurate gauge of a players value. Particularly with a sample size of 1.0.

You don’t think a scout has discussions with other people in his organization as well as other people in his profession in other organizations? Seriously, I’m not sure I even have a word for the kind of absurdity that is. What do you think, that scouts just submit their reports with no feedback, never attend meetings of the scouting staff, and spend all their time when out in the field studiously avoiding conversations with other scouts?

Yes, it’s one scouts opinion and other scouts and front office people might have a different opinion. But one way or the other, it definitively carries more weight than any fan’s opinion.

@Irishguy42 admittedly I don’t know what you do for a living, but if it’s not involved in the NHL world then yes, your opinion isn’t as well informed as a pro scouts would be on this topic. Neither is mine.

 

[SA16]

You don’t think a scout has discussions with other people in his organization as well as other people in his profession in other organizations? Seriously, I’m not sure I even have a word for the kind of absurdity that is. What do you think, that scouts just submit their reports with no feedback, never attend meetings of the scouting staff, and spend all their time when out in the field studiously avoiding conversations with other scouts?

Yes, it’s one scouts opinion and other scouts and front office people might have a different opinion. But one way or the other, it definitively carries more weight than any fan’s opinion.

@Irishguy42 admittedly I don’t know what you do for a living, but if it’s not involved in the NHL world then yes, your opinion isn’t as well informed as a pro scouts would be on this topic. Neither is mine.

If it is the case that scouts/front office people are automatically more informed than outside people then how does anyone not in the NHL ever get hired by a team? How do teams keep hiring these analytics guys who had no previous team affiliation? Does their opinion carry less weight because they weren't part of a team?

The whole "people who work in the league are by definition the most qualified and informed" is so lazy and tiresome.

People sit around and criticize guys like Chiarelli for making bad ones but from what I'm reading Chiarelli is thus more qualified to determine if those moves are good/bad than the people criticizing him so how do we even do that?

 

[Tawnos]

If it is the case that scouts/front office people are automatically more informed than outside people then how does anyone not in the NHL ever get hired by a team? How do teams keep hiring these analytics guys who had no previous team affiliation? Does their opinion carry less weight because they weren't part of a team?

We are specifically talking about the value of Shattenkirk here and whether a pro scout’s sense of a player’s value around the league is more informed than a fan without any access to other people around the league.

But I’d reasonably assume that people who weren’t yet in the NHL had still proven themselves in some way, often with prior experience at lower levels. Like any other job, people are going to work their way up.

 

[SA16]

We are specifically talking about the value of Shattenkirk here and whether a pro scout’s sense of a player’s value around the league is more informed than a fan without any access to other people around the league.

But I’d reasonably assume that people who weren’t yet in the NHL had still proven themselves in some way, often with prior experience at lower levels. Like any other job, people are going to work their way up.

Do you really believe a (presumed) low level pro scout who likely makes in the low-mid five figures is going to be well informed with all the trade discussions high executives are having? Particularly one for a rival team of the Rangers given that the Rangers almost never make trades with the Flyers/Devils/Isles/Penguins/Caps outside of the Grabner deal.

I would not exactly say people work their way up in the NHL. A ton of GMs/scouts/managements qualifications for the job are simply "was a former player."

 

[RangerBoy]

Gorton will be attending this tournament.

Alex Turcotte.

 

[Off Sides]

Shattenkirk has not had value since his injury, and even before he was going to have trouble being seen as more than an okay defender who was really good on the PP.

That is not an appeal to authority, just been opinion all along.

I think with a full off-season off, if the injury can heal, and he can train, he could return to an okay defender who is good on the PP. If so, I still have a difficult time seeing him have a lot of positive trade value. Perhaps in his last year post bonus, or if the Rangers retain, or as outgoing rental, or as part of some larger deal.