Draft and UDFA Thread 2018-19: Part V (Lottery 04/09 8PM EST)

[Ndurpressure]

If we dont finish 2nd worst in the league, is it possible to get kakko? In other words, are the options for draft position either (i) you win and pick first, (ii) the worst team wins and you pick where you rank, and (iii) some team with a better record than you wins the lottery and you pick one spot lower?

I recognize there's probably an obvious answer here so direction toward another link is fine...

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

If we dont finish 2nd worst in the league, is it possible to get kakko? In other words, are the options for draft position either (i) you win and pick first, (ii) the worst team wins and you pick where you rank, and (iii) some team with a better record than you wins the lottery and you pick one spot lower?

I recognize there's probably an obvious answer here so direction toward another link is fine...

Yes.

There is a draft lottery, everyone who misses the playoffs is eligible to move into the top 3 spots.

Odds are obviously better the lower you finish.

We could move up into the top 3, stay put or move down as many as 3 spots if 3 teams better than us win the lottery.

 

[offdacrossbar]

If you want the most talented, the why do you constantly avoid Byram? Do you know how he has done offensively this year?

i said forward. we need to stock the fridge with some serious talent up front.

i happen to have alot of faith in the dmen we have in the pool right now. miller, lund. kean. hajek rykov. theres 2 solid to very good dmen in there somewhere maybe more. with skjei and ADA and pink already here, i like us at the blue line right now.

the forwards look like death valley.

im not one of the huge byram fanboys. hes solid and very involved plays alot and never comes off. i get all that.

he stands out in many ways but to me, there are better choices 1-7

i still think he goes 7 earliest. i may be wrong and if so ill eat crow, but i think hes over valued here and perhaps maybe goes higher than consensus here.

those top 7 forwards are too good to pass on for byram. im sorry.

would i draft a dman in this draft ? sure, but in round 2 and even then i prob look forward again.

 

[Trxjw]

Honestly if the Rangers take more defensemen with their top picks I won't have a problem with it. Quality young dmen are at a premium in this league and there is almost always an opportunity to deal one for a comparable forward.

 

[bl02]

Honestly if the Rangers take more defensemen with their top picks I won't have a problem with it. Quality young dmen are at a premium in this league and there is almost always an opportunity to deal one for a comparable forward.

at 5 or 6 or 7 yes but if we get to 1,2, 3 pick I hope the "worst" player we get is Cozens. I would have a hard time leaving Cozens there and taking Byram (albeit Byram is a terrific prospect). Just not sure if Byram is at the Makar/Heiskanen level? maybe slightly below.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Honestly if the Rangers take more defensemen with their top picks I won't have a problem with it. Quality young dmen are at a premium in this league and there is almost always an opportunity to deal one for a comparable forward.

i dont see it. you said picks like both #1's ?? please god no.

if you look at the pipeline its filled with some really good prospects on the blue line. nothing at forward after Kravtsov

too many high end forwards 1-10

not saying we cant use a #1 guy if you believe byram is that guy- i have my doubts but to take him and pass on turcotte or dach say at 5 or certainly if cozens is there...no way and then to take broberg or seider would upset me if we pass on boldy or dach or certainly newhook.

 

[Ndurpressure]

Yes.


There is a draft lottery, everyone who misses the playoffs is eligible to move into the top 3 spots.

Odds are obviously better the lower you finish.

We could move up into the top 3, stay put or move down as many as 3 spots if 3 teams better than us win the lottery.

thanks @ZuccsFluffierFluffer but can you move up only to 2nd? or is moving up limited to moving up to 1st or not at all.

EDIT: nevermind - i see that there is a lottery for first, and then a lottery for second, and then third. THanks!

 

[brians1128]

Honestly if the Rangers take more defensemen with their top picks I won't have a problem with it. Quality young dmen are at a premium in this league and there is almost always an opportunity to deal one for a comparable forward.

Absolutely and it’s more likely to happen the not. I love how in the the roster building thread, everyone is discussing how Toronto while stock piling forward talent and signing Tavares still look like a first round exit. Then we’re not gonna draft a potentially number 1 defenseman in Byram?? We have Miller who would be great behind Byram both locking up potentially 50 mins a game, add ADA as an offensive top 4 righty D, and if we could trade for a reliable righty D with size to play with Byram that’s a hell of a potential top 4. Hajek has looked great preseason and in his call up. He definitely looks like top 4 material he could be trade bait in the future if he has a strong season next year and we still see what Lindgren, Rykov, etc... or any of them. On the right side if we got that steady righty d has Pionk, Keane, Lundkvist battling out for the last spot.

Now with that said I would say it would be great to move up and grab a falling Forward, can a deal be made is the question? But to me you got 2 lower firsts (hopefully Tampa), Krieder, Skeji, Vesey, a combination of those young defenseman above to land a top righty d and a higher first (would love a playmaking center in Zegras or Dach behind Zibby), and some buy low talent that is being pushed out bc of cap crunches.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I’m fine grabbing Byram. Just trade up for Newhook.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Absolutely and it’s more likely to happen the not. I love how in the the roster building thread, everyone is discussing how Toronto while stock piling forward talent and signing Tavares still look like a first round exit. Then we’re not gonna draft a potentially number 1 defenseman in Byram?? We have Miller who would be great behind Byram both locking up potentially 50 mins a game, add ADA as an offensive top 4 righty D, and if we could trade for a reliable righty D with size to play with Byram that’s a hell of a potential top 4. Hajek has looked great preseason and in his call up. He definitely looks like top 4 material he could be trade bait in the future if he has a strong season next year and we still see what Lindgren, Rykov, etc... or any of them. On the right side if we got that steady righty d has Pionk, Keane, Lundkvist battling out for the last spot.

Now with that said I would say it would be great to move up and grab a falling Forward, can a deal be made is the question? But to me you got 2 lower firsts (hopefully Tampa), Krieder, Skeji, Vesey, a combination of those young defenseman above to land a top righty d and a higher first (would love a playmaking center in Zegras or Dach behind Zibby), and some buy low talent that is being pushed out bc of cap crunches.

i believe well be busy on draft day. i would avoid all dmen on day 1 unless its a trade deal.

and i dont rule out a trade of CK and picks to add a player or move up for a top 3 guy.

i dont rule our moving up or dropping down

and i dont rule out adding a roster player

JG left everything on the table.

getting better faster isnt a sin and i think it may well happen.

draft day may not be just prospects coming on board.

 

[offdacrossbar]

I’m fine grabbing Byram. Just trade up for Newhook.

this i could get behind. prefer cozens and newhook

those 2 on day one and im good.

 

[Matt Rentfree]

I don't see how we are getting Newhook, Boldy (especially) or Kaliyev with the 25ish pick. Those guys will be gone. Maybe Newhook drops like a Veleno did but not that much.
I think we have to be realistic. Like last year some thinking we could get Dobson and a Kravtsov.
I also don't see any chance at Cozens unless we take him at 3! I don't think he will fall to 5 which is where we pick best scenario other than top 3. So if we pick 3 we grab Cozens other than that don't see it happening unfortunately.

If we end up at 5, I'd be happy with any of Byram/Turcotte/Zegras. If WPG holds on and wins their division, that 2nd pick will most likely be between 26-31 - that's a tougher choice IMO - Hoglander/Leason/Knight/Heinola/Foote are probably the choices we're looking at, unless we trade up which is a distinct possiblilty

 

[bl02]

this i could get behind. prefer cozens and newhook

those 2 on day one and im good.

Would be great to get those two for sure. Are we willing to give up our jets pick and two seconds (if Dallas fails to get us a first) to move up to let’s say 17/18/19 to get newhook because that’s what it will take. I would be ok with that if that means we get petty much two impact forwards like that. Again chance of us getting cozens is just as good as getting Kakko.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Would be great to get those two for sure. Are we willing to give up our jets pick and two seconds (if Dallas fails to get us a first) to move up to let’s say 17/18/19 to get newhook because that’s what it will take. I would be ok with that if that means we get petty much two impact forwards like that. Again chance of us getting cozens is just as good as getting Kakko.

if we can end day one adding dylan cozens who looks like 6'3 monster who can play the C or W and skate like the wind and has that finish ability we so need and then follow up with what i would consider the 2nd best skater in the entire draft and a kid who looks to be a legit 1C do everything kid, yeah i would be willing to move picks for those 2 on day 1.

no question.

 

[Edge]

Edge- Interesting, I have not looked at it from that perspective.

But for me its a bit, a kid get one little news report about something and he is a total cancer. Another kid makes 1 or 2 mistakes and he is mistake prone. A third kid plays hockey and get one injury, and he is injury prone.

Is Broberg mistake prone? Eh what? Its hockey, everyone makes mistakes and he is 17 y/o. I've seen him quite much and I've seen NOTHING indicating that he is especially mistake prone. Still he got that label. How many injuries have Turcotte had? 1? What was it, some hip injury? Its not like he have had 5 concussions.

Personally, I don’t think it’ll be an issue and have Turcotte in my top 7. But it’s definitely out there. I don’t recall his exact injury history, but I believe some of the concerns started from how his style might work in the NHL.

It’s always a balancing act. As you said, sometimes concerns or reputations can be unwarranted. On the flip side, sometimes players we really like occupy blind spots and we have a hard time seeing the areas of concern.

In Turcotte’s case I think anything from the third spot on is Possible. I can’t under any circumstances see him pushing Hughes or Kakko out of the top 2 spots.

Third is possible, but if I were a betting a man, I don’t think most teams have him quite that high. I think Podkolzin is still higher on many scouting lists, at this point in time. Fourth is where things become interesting.

 

[True Blue]

i said forward. we need to stock the fridge with some serious talent up front.

I understand what you said. I said if the choice is for a difference maker, then how can you dismiss them. The organization needs to stock the team fridge with talent. Full stop.

i happen to have alot of faith in the dmen we have in the pool right now. miller, lund. kean. hajek rykov. theres 2 solid to very good dmen in there somewhere maybe more. with skjei and ADA and pink already here, i like us at the blue line right now.

So you feel good about drafted/traded for largely unproven defensemen but do not feel good about drafted/traded for forwards? I see

And half of the those the defensemen were brought in trades. That directly contradicts your assertion that they are relying on only the draft.

the forwards look like death valley.

Looks pretty much like the defense right now.

im not one of the huge byram fanboys. hes solid and very involved plays alot and never comes off. i get all that.

he stands out in many ways but to me, there are better choices 1-7

Walking away from this. This is beginning to resemble arguing with you that Quinn does not have it out for ADA.

i still think he goes 7 earliest. i may be wrong and if so ill eat crow, but i think hes over valued here and perhaps maybe goes higher than consensus here.

Going to remind you of your vow to eat crow, post draft.

 

[Edge]

@Ola brought up an interesting name...Mike Modano. Is Turcotte’s skating on that level?

Not quite on that level, IMO. But I’d definitely say he and Cozens are upper tier skaters.

 

[offdacrossbar]

I understand what you said. I said if the choice is for a difference maker, then how can you dismiss them. The organization needs to stock the team fridge with talent. Full stop.

So you feel good about drafted/traded for largely unproven defensemen but do not feel good about drafted/traded for forwards? I see

And half of the those the defensemen were brought in trades. That directly contradicts your assertion that they are relying on only the draft.

Looks pretty much like the defense right now.

Walking away from this. This is beginning to resemble arguing with you that Quinn does not have it out for ADA.

Going to remind you of your vow to eat crow, post draft.

i don't believe byram goes before 7

i really dont. too many better forwards.

i think the dmen in the pipeline look pretty good actually. i like hajek. i like kean. i like lund. i love miller and i like rykov. we have options and prospects here.

forward wise, we have nothing. zero.

and sadly, i was very high on lias on draft day and it looks like hes started slower than i would have liked. howden im less excited for. i see a 3/2 tweener there.

lastly, they cant really solely on the draft for 2 reason.

time line and history

 

[Ghost of jas]

Not quite on that level, IMO. But I’d definitely say he and Cozens are upper tier skaters.

And this is why I can see both of them being Ranger targets.

 

[bl02]

I already know who is getting cozens at 3 or 4 after we beat them yet again on April 1st. So depressing we need to win the lottery

 

[Edge]

And this is why I can see both of them being Ranger targets.

Frankly, even if you take skating out of the equation, they should be in the conversation. Top six offensive talent, high ceilings, great character and work ethics, smart IQs, adaptability, the ability to make entire lines better and carry them.

Like I said, two of the four players outside of Hughes and Kakko that I would be the most happy to walk away with (along with Byram or Zegras). Any question marks they have are dwarved by the upside they possess.

 

[True Blue]

i think the dmen in the pipeline look pretty good actually. i like hajek. i like kean. i like lund. i love miller and i like rykov. we have options and prospects here.

forward wise, we have nothing. zero.

Again, you seem to like unproven defensemen in the pipeline, that have never played in NHL but you do not like unproven forwards who have never played in the NHL. Just want to make sure I understand you clearly.

and sadly, i was very high on lias on draft day and it looks like hes started slower than i would have liked. howden im less excited for. i see a 3/2 tweener there.

You have come to this conclusion base on a 20 year old, living his first year in North America while mostly playing with 4th line forwards?

lastly, they cant really solely on the draft for 2 reason.

time line and history

Aren't time and history essentially synonymous here?

You list 5 defensemen that you either like or love. All brought here with Gorton at the helm. And you cite history as to why they will not draft well? Again I ask, for how many years with him running the ship have there been overall bad drafts?

 

[Trxjw]

i dont see it. you said picks like both #1's ?? please god no.

if you look at the pipeline its filled with some really good prospects on the blue line. nothing at forward after Kravtsov

too many high end forwards 1-10

not saying we cant use a #1 guy if you believe byram is that guy- i have my doubts but to take him and pass on turcotte or dach say at 5 or certainly if cozens is there...no way and then to take broberg or seider would upset me if we pass on boldy or dach or certainly newhook.

I didn't mean to infer that we should prioritize defensemen, or that we should take defensemen higher than they're rated. I just mean that if we walk away after the draft with a large number of defensemen with our picks, I won't have an issue with it. That doesn't mean that I'd hope they pass on a guy like Kakko to take Byram or a Zegras/Turcotte to take York or Broberg.

Yes, the prospect pool leans somewhat towards defense right now at the very top end -- assuming you exclude Howden, Chytil, and Andersson anyway -- but there's always a market for those good young defenders if they come around.

 

[Trxjw]

at 5 or 6 or 7 yes but if we get to 1,2, 3 pick I hope the "worst" player we get is Cozens. I would have a hard time leaving Cozens there and taking Byram (albeit Byram is a terrific prospect). Just not sure if Byram is at the Makar/Heiskanen level? maybe slightly below.

Like I said to ODC, I don't want the team to take guys higher just because they're defensemen. I just mean I wouldn't be upset if we wound up having a defense heavy draft. There's always a market for those guys.

Personally, the only D I have rated in the top-10 is Byram, and he's at 3. So odds are I would be taking a forward if it were my choice and we didn't move up. That being said, I think Byram definitely has the upside of a Heiskanen or Makar in terms of being a top-pairing defensemen, though stylistically he's closer to Heiskanen than Makar.

 

[Trxjw]

Absolutely and it’s more likely to happen the not. I love how in the the roster building thread, everyone is discussing how Toronto while stock piling forward talent and signing Tavares still look like a first round exit. Then we’re not gonna draft a potentially number 1 defenseman in Byram?? We have Miller who would be great behind Byram both locking up potentially 50 mins a game, add ADA as an offensive top 4 righty D, and if we could trade for a reliable righty D with size to play with Byram that’s a hell of a potential top 4. Hajek has looked great preseason and in his call up. He definitely looks like top 4 material he could be trade bait in the future if he has a strong season next year and we still see what Lindgren, Rykov, etc... or any of them. On the right side if we got that steady righty d has Pionk, Keane, Lundkvist battling out for the last spot.

Now with that said I would say it would be great to move up and grab a falling Forward, can a deal be made is the question? But to me you got 2 lower firsts (hopefully Tampa), Krieder, Skeji, Vesey, a combination of those young defenseman above to land a top righty d and a higher first (would love a playmaking center in Zegras or Dach behind Zibby), and some buy low talent that is being pushed out bc of cap crunches.

Well I'm not sure I'd say it's more likely to happen, at least not with our first pick as I think we're likely to end up with a forward there, but after that I could see it. I'm there with you in terms of the way the D shakes out with Byram in the mix. If we use all 10 picks and walk away with 6 defensemen and 4 forwards, it's just fine with me. Not all of these guys will make it, so bring on the depth at whatever position we can.