Speculation: Draft and UDFA Thread 2018-19: Part IX (No Kakko/Hughes Talk)

[offdacrossbar]

Or Koklhachev

Or Jet Morin !

Hey now, only I'M allowed to remind ODC about his love for "Jet" Morin!

im not aware of any failures.... im never wrong.

those names bring blood to my ears.

thanks guys ....

 

[offdacrossbar]

I think the scouting staff in general is really damn good. They've assembled a great group of minds.

the fact remains that for a long period of time our prospect pool was pretty shallow.

look back and identify any blue chip prospects weve both drafted and developed ? there arent really any. our best players recently have been FA's and acquired via trade.

im sorry but our overall draft record has been so-so. i get the " no 1st rounders" thing but there are players taken below the 1st.

there are many gems taken outside the top 10 picks and other than henrik, there havent been many drafted and developed by this scouting staff that i can remember.

here's a question, do we have a top 50 player in the league right now ? anyone ?

other than hank, please identify the top 50 player we drafted and developed here the last 5 yrs ?

 

[ColonialsHockey10]

the fact remains that for a long period of time our prospect pool was pretty shallow.

look back and identify any blue chip prospects weve both drafted and developed ? there arent really any. our best players recently have been FA's and acquired via trade.

im sorry but our overall draft record has been so-so. i get the " no 1st rounders" thing but there are players taken below the 1st.

there are many gems taken outside the top 10 picks and other than henrik, there havent been many drafted and developed by this scouting staff that i can remember.

here's a question, do we have a top 50 player in the league right now ? anyone ?

other than hank, please identify the top 50 player we drafted and developed here the last 5 yrs ?

I was thinking about this watching the playoffs this year.

When we were competitive, nearly all of our top guns were acquired through free agency or trades, which is contrary to pretty much every other competitive team out there.

Our scouts have squeezed NHL talent out of nearly every draft, which is nice. Our scouts also have the honor of drafting JT Miller as our highest scoring prospect in like 15 years. That’s pathetic.

 

[offdacrossbar]

I was thinking about this watching the playoffs this year.

When we were competitive, nearly all of our top guns were acquired through free agency or trades, which is contrary to pretty much every other competitive team out there.

Our scouts have squeezed NHL talent out of nearly every draft, which is nice. Our scouts also have the honor of drafting JT Miller as our highest scoring prospect in like 15 years. That’s pathetic.

yep, this has been by mantra for a long time.

have not been pleased with our track record drafting anything but above average players- other than hank.

i continue to be skeptical although less gordie and more bobrov seems to be a better plan.

im just not a gordie clark fan at all and for more than just 2010.

 

[Matz03]

the fact remains that for a long period of time our prospect pool was pretty shallow.

look back and identify any blue chip prospects weve both drafted and developed ? there arent really any. our best players recently have been FA's and acquired via trade.

im sorry but our overall draft record has been so-so. i get the " no 1st rounders" thing but there are players taken below the 1st.

there are many gems taken outside the top 10 picks and other than henrik, there havent been many drafted and developed by this scouting staff that i can remember.

here's a question, do we have a top 50 player in the league right now ? anyone ?

other than hank, please identify the top 50 player we drafted and developed here the last 5 yrs ?

Currently, there are only a handful of teams that found high-end players deep into the draft, those teams deserve credit for finding them but the reality is those same teams passed over those players multiple times and took a gamble that paid off. If Calgary was so smart they would've picked Gaudreau #6 and not #104. Tampa picked Namestnikov before they picked Kucherov! There is some luck involved, though these scouting staffs deserve credit for having these guys on their boards.

You can say it's pathetic that Miller or Kreider are the best forwards we've drafted in 15 years, but objectively look at who was drafted around these players and they are damn good picks. Look at how many total picks we've had all these years and it makes sense why it's been hard to find top players, no first rounders for what 4 straight years? Part of that goes on the GM for throwing picks around and not the people who draft.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Alright gang, here's my hopeful but not sure realistic draft scenario:

Rangers get Kakko at #2

Rangers trade Chris Kreider to Colorado at 50% retained for the 16th overall pick

Rangers package #16 and #20 overall to Anaheim for 9th overall and nab a falling Trevor Zegras

Rangers trade #58 overall to Tampa for Ryan Callahan and #27 overall

Rangers nab a falling Moritz Seider 27th overall

Rangers take Fagemo 49th overall

/dream.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I just can't see Seider falling to 27.

 

[Mac n Gs]

I just can't see Seider falling to 27.

Agreed, and the only reason he would be is if he’s still suffering setbacks from this concussion.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Agreed, and the only reason he would be is if he’s still suffering setbacks from this concussion.

That would be my thought for the reason for him falling.

 

[eco's bones]

We're one month away. It's been a long time since that lottery.

 

[Bluenote13]

We're one month away. It's been a long time since that lottery.

Kakko is already inducted into the Hockey HOF.

Hughes has been trashed unmercifully by some Ranger fans for not being a one man show at the World's.

To some folks, the idea of Kakko going to the Devils will exist everyday until NJ goes to the podium and says the name Jack Hughes.

Acquired Adam Fox, one of the best young players outside the NHL.

The hourly Kreider/Panarin debate of '19 keeps rolling along.

Seider house rules, early odds on favorite for #20 overall or to win the Belmont Stakes.

John Davidson is back with the Rangers!

Ian Davis made a surprise appearance. Who's next, Fletch!?

 

[Fitzy]

I was thinking about this watching the playoffs this year.

When we were competitive, nearly all of our top guns were acquired through free agency or trades, which is contrary to pretty much every other competitive team out there.

Our scouts have squeezed NHL talent out of nearly every draft, which is nice. Our scouts also have the honor of drafting JT Miller as our highest scoring prospect in like 15 years. That’s pathetic.

Without getting pedantic, if we account for games missed Stepan is unquestionably the best drafted NYR forward since 2004.

We can't say for sure about Chere but he could've been good.

 

[LaffyTaffy]

I would trade Kreider for 2020 1st. That draft will be one for the ages.

 

[Fugazy]

Alright gang, here's my hopeful but not sure realistic draft scenario:

Rangers get Kakko at #2

Rangers trade Chris Kreider to Colorado at 50% retained for the 16th overall pick

Rangers package #16 and #20 overall to Anaheim for 9th overall and nab a falling Trevor Zegras

Rangers trade #58 overall to Tampa for Ryan Callahan and #27 overall

Rangers nab a falling Moritz Seider 27th overall

Rangers take Fagemo 49th overall

/dream.

Love it, but it would be a miracle if Seider is still there at 27.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Hope you all enjoy reading this.

What does Adam Fox say?

CHA-CHING

 

[brians1128]

I would trade Kreider for 2020 1st. That draft will be one for the ages.

I could see that. They can still play the draft multiple ways in terms of moving up. the 20th plus a lesser player like Vessey or Names to move up a few spots (value of a second), Our 20th plus one of our seconds, or both our seconds together to a early second/late first, I really wonder how far that could get us. Everyone is screaming Seider right now, and I like him as a prospect but I could also be happy with landing Korczak instead in the second, I just think he will be higher then the Dallas pick but it could also be my bias. 2 forwards and Korczak in the top 60 and I would be really happy.

 

[Ola]

Kakko is already inducted into the Hockey HOF.

Hughes has been trashed unmercifully by some Ranger fans for not being a one man show at the World's.

To some folks, the idea of Kakko going to the Devils will exist everyday until NJ goes to the podium and says the name Jack Hughes.

Acquired Adam Fox, one of the best young players outside the NHL.

The hourly Kreider/Panarin debate of '19 keeps rolling along.

Seider house rules, early odds on favorite for #20 overall or to win the Belmont Stakes.

John Davidson is back with the Rangers!

Ian Davis made a surprise appearance. Who's next, Fletch!?

If NJ is taking Kakko, they will leak it beforehand. Otherwise I agree with you!

 

[eco's bones]

Kakko is already inducted into the Hockey HOF.

Hughes has been trashed unmercifully by some Ranger fans for not being a one man show at the World's.

To some folks, the idea of Kakko going to the Devils will exist everyday until NJ goes to the podium and says the name Jack Hughes.

Acquired Adam Fox, one of the best young players outside the NHL.

The hourly Kreider/Panarin debate of '19 keeps rolling along.

Seider house rules, early odds on favorite for #20 overall or to win the Belmont Stakes.

John Davidson is back with the Rangers!

Ian Davis made a surprise appearance. Who's next, Fletch!?

yeah, I wonder what's happened to Fletch but yeah I saw a couple posts by Davisian a couple days ago and then he's disappeared again or maybe that was just a big tease. You yourself have had some time away though--recharging the battery or something.

I think the Kakko over Hughes thing is just Kakko's more ready--there's immediate gratification to keep in mind and even I kind of like that. I don't think we're getting Seider at 20 either--I think he's gone before then and if I were going to move up I'd much prefer it was because of someone like Zegras or Newhook dropping than to get him.

 

[True Blue]

Rangers trade Chris Kreider to Colorado at 50% retained for the 16th overall pick

If Hayes with no retention, got a first and Lemieux, why would Krieder fetch less?

 

[I Eat Crow]

If Hayes with no retention, got a first and Lemieux, why would Krieder fetch less?

I don't think Winnipeg anticipated trading a 20th overall pick. They probably thought it would be a 22nd overall at worst.

Draft picks are worth the most at the draft and the least at the trade deadline. Lucic a few years ago got 13th overall with 50% retained. It's possible Kreider gets a higher pick, but I don't think anyone in the 10-15 range will deal for him. I see Colorado as the most logical fit. Maybe they throw in a conditional pick if Kreider signs an extension, but I don't think Kreider would get much more than what I proposed.

 

[Fitzy]

If Hayes with no retention, got a first and Lemieux, why would Krieder fetch less?

Only possible reason would be center as a more coveted position.

 

[pblawr]

I don't think Winnipeg anticipated trading a 20th overall pick. They probably thought it would be a 22nd overall at worst.

Draft picks are worth the most at the draft and the least at the trade deadline. Lucic a few years ago got 13th overall with 50% retained. It's possible Kreider gets a higher pick, but I don't think anyone in the 10-15 range will deal for him. I see Colorado as the most logical fit. Maybe they throw in a conditional pick if Kreider signs an extension, but I don't think Kreider would get much more than what I proposed.

I think this post is dead on. The Winnipeg pick projected to be 28th at the time they traded it and if you check a draft chart the 16th pick is worth almost twice as much as the 28th. So Colorado wouldn't be making the same trade that Winnipeg made for Hayes, they'd be giving up twice as much.

Secondly, I think the difference in value you get at the deadline, when a team's competitors are all trading their picks away for help and the thought of winning a cup is salient, and at the draft, when teams have just had all their scouting meetings and the value of those prospects is salient, is a real thing. Between that and the positional value of a wing vs a center that @Fitzy mentioned, I think the best comparison for Kreider might be Skinner, who got traded just after the draft for a 2nd (a high 2nd), a 3rd, a 6th and Cliff Pu.

The 16th pick would be more than Buffalo got for Ryan O'Reilly with 5 years left on a team-friendly deal. I'd love if it happened, but that doesn't make sense to me.

Personally, I think the most likely way to get the best return for Kreider is either trading him to a team where he'll sign an extension (which doesn't happen often) or trading him at the deadline and hopefully getting back a 2020 first and a B prospect.

 

[ColonialsHockey10]

Without getting pedantic, if we account for games missed Stepan is unquestionably the best drafted NYR forward since 2004.

We can't say for sure about Chere but he could've been good.

Fair on both accounts.

Stepan is a nice player, but that still isn’t a great track record.

For example, I look at a team like San Jose. They’ve managed to be competitive for the last 10+ years, yet have drafted Pavs, Couture, Meier, Hertl etc. None were top picks, all have surpassed Step by a healthy margin. Kevin Labanc would be our third highest scoring drafted player in 15 years. Did half of you know who what was before the playoffs?

Blues have Schwartz, Tarsenko, Pietrangelo, Perron (who has handily outscored all of our guys), Parayko. Robert Thomas will out score all of our drafted guys next year, he’s ready to burst.

I could do this for every single team that made the playoffs this year. A lot of them did it without a top 5 pick.

We’ve managed to stay competitive because we happen to be a hot spot for college free agents and regular free agents. Our scouting staff doesn’t deserve much credit for what we’ve “accomplished” to date. When they’ve had the chance to really make a difference they have blown it.

That one poster did a great job compiling a list of all the top players that went after our selection in the last few years. The thing is that pretty much every team in the league can lay claim to at least one of those players.

Looks like we’ve turned a new leaf with Krav, Kakko, Chytil, etc. I sure hope so!

 

[Anzi]

Fair on both accounts.

Stepan is a nice player, but that still isn’t a great track record.

For example, I look at a team like San Jose. They’ve managed to be competitive for the last 10+ years, yet have drafted Pavs, Couture, Meier, Hertl etc. None were top picks, all have surpassed Step by a healthy margin. Kevin Labanc would be our third highest scoring drafted player in 15 years. Did half of you know who what was before the playoffs?

Blues have Schwartz, Tarsenko, Pietrangelo, Perron (who has handily outscored all of our guys), Parayko. Robert Thomas will out score all of our drafted guys next year, he’s ready to burst.

I could do this for every single team that made the playoffs this year. A lot of them did it without a top 5 pick.

We’ve managed to stay competitive because we happen to be a hot spot for college free agents and regular free agents. Our scouting staff doesn’t deserve much credit for what we’ve “accomplished” to date. When they’ve had the chance to really make a difference they have blown it.

That one poster did a great job compiling a list of all the top players that went after our selection in the last few years. The thing is that pretty much every team in the league can lay claim to at least one of those players.

Looks like we’ve turned a new leaf with Krav, Kakko, Chytil, etc. I sure hope so!

How about them Bruins though..

Marchand, 71st

Pastrnak, 25th

Krejci, 63rd

Bergeron, 45th

McAvoy at 14th

And then there's guys like Lucic (50th) who aren't on the team anymore but were also great picks.

 

[bobbop]

How about them Bruins though..

Marchand, 71st

Pastrnak, 25th

Krejci, 63rd

Bergeron, 45th

McAvoy at 14th

And then there's guys like Lucic (50th) who aren't on the team anymore but were also great picks.

And Clark and Gorton had a big hand in Bergeron and Marchand