On the other hand when Kravtsov was thinking about buying out his contract and coming over immediately, his team reportedly threatened legal action to prevent him from doing so. I'm not sure we ever got the full story on that though.
Speculation: Draft and UDFA Thread 2018-19: Part IX (No Kakko/Hughes Talk)
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On the other hand when Kravtsov was thinking about buying out his contract and coming over immediately, his team reportedly threatened legal action to prevent him from doing so. I'm not sure we ever got the full story on that though.
Amazing Kreiderman
Registered User
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Because he couldn't. His contract was only valid for another 10 months, and therefore not subject to a player-elected buy out. The only way Kravtsov could have gotten out of his contract was by a mutually agreed termination which wasn't happening. Can't blame the team for that though with his KHL rights being worth a lot with a potential NHL lock out in 3 years.
This was reported a several times and I think I shared it here.
offdacrossbar
misfit fanboy
any attempt to justify the mcilrath pick with what happens after that doesn't change the fact that the pick was atrocious.
gordie clark will be forever attached to that pick.
im sorry but he's dead to me.
gordie clark will be forever attached to that pick.
im sorry but he's dead to me.
JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK
Twenty f*ckin years
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Hunter Gathers
The Crown
offdacrossbar
misfit fanboy
look, thats the kind of dismissive statement that lends it self to critique.
couple things, that pick set us back big time. you add tarasenko or kuznetsov or even fowler to this team and who knows what we win and how the landscape is changed.
second, gordie fell in love with this kid and sold us a bill of goods. many here new right quick that this pick was a folly. wrong kid, wrong pick. period. the whole premise of the pick was a mistake and this is our lead guy making this kind of material error with the 10th pick in 2010. scary.
saying "let it go" sounds cool, but in totality, the repercussions of that failed pick have reverberated for years.
the wasnt just a swing and miss. this was a full out bust. kid played what 40 games as a 10OA.
having him around our draft board makes me queezy. time to send him out to pasture.
offdacrossbar
misfit fanboy
Amazing Kreiderman
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Just for argument-sake, let's say Clark is responsible for the draft picks: Are we criticize him for the McIlrath pick but don't give him credit for picking Kreider, Stepan, Fast, Miller, Skjei, Buchnevich, Duclair, Chytil and Kravtsov? Gotcha. Because that wouldn't fit your narrative.
People are not allowed to make mistakes, unless of course they work for other teams and you only focus on the success stories when it comes to other organizations.
offdacrossbar
misfit fanboy
when you are hank and you let that easy shot get past you and you lose the game, you get criticized. its life.
when you have the 10OA and your whiff big time, you get criticized.
those others you highlight are perhaps not the best examples.
CK- so-so career so far. on the block. not looking like hes worth that 2nd deal.
step- eh. ok
fast- eh
miller- lol
skjei- yes
buch- looks better today than a year ago
duclair- huh ?
chytl- incomplete
krav- see above
andersson- same
not a blue chipper in the bunch
not impressed sorry.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
Oh no, not this f***ing debate again...
I'm still trying to break my fever. I'm gonna see myself out.
I'm still trying to break my fever. I'm gonna see myself out.
Amazing Kreiderman
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Stepan: Top-6 center picked in the 2nd round
Kreider: top line winger picked in the bottom of the 1st
Miller: middle-6 winger picked at 15
Fast: Utility player in the 6th round
Buchnevich: top-6 winger in the 3rd round
Duclair: NHL player in the 3rd round
I'll leave out the other 3 for now.
Here's the thing, you have to look at where a player was drafted. Kreider at 19 is a great pick. Stepan in the 2nd, probably an even better pick. But if your attitude is "elite or it doesn't matter" you are going to have a hard time finding ANY person in the league who fits your standards. Because if you point at Tampa to say "They got Kucherov and Point" I am wondering why you don't bring up Koekkoek and Connolly. Because that doesn't fit with the agenda you have.
Stop bitching about everything. No scout/GM/head of player personnel is perfect. Gordie Clark has been okay. Probably a 6/10. Could he be better? Sure. But it could be MUCH worse. The only real bad pick is McIlrath. 1 bad pick in a decade. I'll gladly take that if you look at what we got out of the draft during his tenure. It just seems like you expect star players with every draft pick. Once you get past the top-3 or top-5 in the draft, the chances of the player picked being a top-line player reduce drastically. That's why getting Kreider at 19 and Stepan at 51 were great picks.
And if Tampa knew how good Kucherov was, they wouldn't have picked Vlad Namestnikov over him in the 1st round. But sure, let's all assume Tampa didn't luck their way into a 100+ point scorer.
offdacrossbar
misfit fanboy
this is a black hole discussion.
lets just move on to when gordie picks a goalie in round 2 because benny likes him
lets just move on to when gordie picks a goalie in round 2 because benny likes him
TheBloodyNine
Pure Bred Soviet Savage
Again, what exactly did those teams get from those trades? Both players drafted with the Brett Connolly picks have amounted to nothing. The most notable player in the Legwand trade was Calle Jarnkrok.
LaffyTaffy
Brooklyn-Belarussian
Matz03
Registered User
I hate adding to this conversation of prior picks, but if you look at the Krieder, Miller, Skjei and McIlrath drafts, 3 of the 4 are rather impressive, at least if you consider who went right after Miller, Kreider and Skjei. You add to that the recent drafting of Chytil, Miller, Lundkvist, and at those spots they really all seem to be darn good picks. The odds are they'll grab another NHLer at #20.
Bluenote13
Believe In Henke
More than what Mcilrath brought back.
Gordie has an awful track record when it comes to drafting big guys: Rupp, Mezei, Kudroc, Mcilrath, etc.
NYR Viper
Registered User
In fairness, Chytil and Kreider are not 'small'
Yeah, you can't just give Clark an F for his one pick and ignore the 3 A's. Going back even further he would get about a B for Del Zotto and obviously no grade for Cherepanov, but everything looked good with him.
Not going to chime in on the more recent picks because its too early to say definitively. So that's literally Clarke's full list of first round picks since he was more than just a regular scout.
Bluenote13
Believe In Henke
They're also known for more than their size. Kreider could skate like no other, Chytil is a playmaking Center. Those others were all ranked highly because of size.
NYR Viper
Registered User
Bluenote13
Believe In Henke
I don't agree with your total impression of Gordie, but I do agree the reverberations of that draft are still happening in the league right now. Where would the Blues be right now without the 2010 draft?
I don't really have too many problems with Gordie Clark still being in this position I have a lot more faith in the other guys around him these days.
Rangerfans
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So essentially you only criticize and nitpick.
And I disagree: you can find fault when a player makes mistakes, but these are professional athletes. Marc Staal with his cyclopean eye would decimate every “player” here. I do have a problem when people utterly dismiss players and say their overrated or bums.
I've posted this before, but if you look at Clarke's record in aggregate I think it's actually very good:
2006: Sanguinetti was a miss, but there were only 7 players picked after him (Giroux, Varlamov, Foligno, Lucic, Anisimov, Marchand, and Perreault) who became top 6 players and the Rangers drafted one of them. I would actually argue that the Rangers did better than they should have been expected to this year
2007: Cherepanov was a fantastic pick in the first. After Antoine Lafluer in the 2nd, there were only 8 real NHL players (Simmonds, Killorn, Alec Martinez, Benn, Muzzin, Maroon, Hagelin, and Bonino) and the Rangers got one of them despite not having a 3rd or a 4th round pick. Between Cherepanov and Hagelin, this strikes me as a great draft.
2008: The Rangers picked 3 guys who have played over 400 NHL games in Del Zotto, Stepan, and Dale Weise. The only players picked after Del Zotto who were clearly better were Carlson, Josi, Stepan, Nyqist, Spurgeon, and Atkinson and Stepan was arguably the best of them. This also strikes me as a great draft.
2009: The Kreider pick was fantastic. Ryan O'Reilly is probably the only guy you would take ahead of him in that spot if you had a do-over. Again, a great draft.
2010: This was a bad draft
2011: The only guys you would have taken over Miller in a redraft were Rakell, William Karlsson, Kucherov, Trocheck, Gaudreau, and Palat, and all but one of them were taken after the 1st round, ie. every other team in the NHL passed on them too. Again, a great draft.
2012: The only guys you would have taken over Skjei in a redraft were Gostisbehere (arguably) and Parayko. Everyone else was worse. And the Rangers only had 4 picks. Again, great.
2013: After the Rangers first pick, the 6 best players drafted were Pesce, Buchnevich, Guentzel, Will Butcher, Bjorkstrand, and Duclair, and the Rangers got 2 of them. This was a fantastic draft.
2014: Out of the 151 players picked after the Rangers took Halverson, there are only 2-3 guys, Brayden Point, Victor Arvidsson, and Danton Heinen, who have turned into valuable NHL'ers, and 2 more guys, Sorokin and Shestyorkin, who project as top prospects. It seems to me like the Rangers did pretty well to get one of those in Shestyorkin. Similar to 2006, I would argue the Rangers did better than they should been expected to.
2015: After the Rangers picked Gropp, Sprong and Kaprizov are the only guys who are still big time prospects out of the next 170 picks. Ideally, you'd like to be more out of a draft, but with a roughly 1-in-85 chance of a pick turning into something valuable, it's tough to argue the Rangers should have done better.
2016: Rykov and Jesper Bratt are the only guys I think you could argue would have clearly been better picks than the Rangers first pick, Sean Day.
The 2017 & 2018 drafts are too early to judge (and to be honest, the 2015 & 2016 drafts are too), but for the 11 drafts above:
- 6 were great, 2 were better than expected, 2 were what you would have expected and only one was bad based on the picks that the Rangers had
- Outside of 2010, there isn't one case where it's clear that the Rangers didn't come away with one of the 10 best players available at their first pick, and in 2007, 2008, and 2013, the Rangers came away with 2 of the 10 best players available at their first pick
2006: Sanguinetti was a miss, but there were only 7 players picked after him (Giroux, Varlamov, Foligno, Lucic, Anisimov, Marchand, and Perreault) who became top 6 players and the Rangers drafted one of them. I would actually argue that the Rangers did better than they should have been expected to this year
2007: Cherepanov was a fantastic pick in the first. After Antoine Lafluer in the 2nd, there were only 8 real NHL players (Simmonds, Killorn, Alec Martinez, Benn, Muzzin, Maroon, Hagelin, and Bonino) and the Rangers got one of them despite not having a 3rd or a 4th round pick. Between Cherepanov and Hagelin, this strikes me as a great draft.
2008: The Rangers picked 3 guys who have played over 400 NHL games in Del Zotto, Stepan, and Dale Weise. The only players picked after Del Zotto who were clearly better were Carlson, Josi, Stepan, Nyqist, Spurgeon, and Atkinson and Stepan was arguably the best of them. This also strikes me as a great draft.
2009: The Kreider pick was fantastic. Ryan O'Reilly is probably the only guy you would take ahead of him in that spot if you had a do-over. Again, a great draft.
2010: This was a bad draft
2011: The only guys you would have taken over Miller in a redraft were Rakell, William Karlsson, Kucherov, Trocheck, Gaudreau, and Palat, and all but one of them were taken after the 1st round, ie. every other team in the NHL passed on them too. Again, a great draft.
2012: The only guys you would have taken over Skjei in a redraft were Gostisbehere (arguably) and Parayko. Everyone else was worse. And the Rangers only had 4 picks. Again, great.
2013: After the Rangers first pick, the 6 best players drafted were Pesce, Buchnevich, Guentzel, Will Butcher, Bjorkstrand, and Duclair, and the Rangers got 2 of them. This was a fantastic draft.
2014: Out of the 151 players picked after the Rangers took Halverson, there are only 2-3 guys, Brayden Point, Victor Arvidsson, and Danton Heinen, who have turned into valuable NHL'ers, and 2 more guys, Sorokin and Shestyorkin, who project as top prospects. It seems to me like the Rangers did pretty well to get one of those in Shestyorkin. Similar to 2006, I would argue the Rangers did better than they should been expected to.
2015: After the Rangers picked Gropp, Sprong and Kaprizov are the only guys who are still big time prospects out of the next 170 picks. Ideally, you'd like to be more out of a draft, but with a roughly 1-in-85 chance of a pick turning into something valuable, it's tough to argue the Rangers should have done better.
2016: Rykov and Jesper Bratt are the only guys I think you could argue would have clearly been better picks than the Rangers first pick, Sean Day.
The 2017 & 2018 drafts are too early to judge (and to be honest, the 2015 & 2016 drafts are too), but for the 11 drafts above:
- 6 were great, 2 were better than expected, 2 were what you would have expected and only one was bad based on the picks that the Rangers had
- Outside of 2010, there isn't one case where it's clear that the Rangers didn't come away with one of the 10 best players available at their first pick, and in 2007, 2008, and 2013, the Rangers came away with 2 of the 10 best players available at their first pick
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