Friedman: Don't be surprised if the Marner situation plays out over the season

[Dr Pepper]

I feel like if Dubas didn't gift-wrap that NMC into the last bungled contract negotiations, Marner would be gone already.

 

[mydnyte]

You think that "probably the best outcome" for the Leafs is to sign Marner to a long term deal and spend nearly $40 million of their cap on three forwards with a long history of not getting it done when it matters?

How could you possibly think that is probably the best outcome for the Leafs?

Ovechkin had that same history until he finally won, and technically so did Yzerman...
it took him Yzerman 11 years to win his first cup, and those Red Wings teams were more like all star teams. OV took even longer, and he did have a very good supporting cast.

Yzerman had a .94 ppg vs Marners .88 ppg in the playoffs and it still took him 11 years, with far less teams in the league, and far less competition than we have now, and the quality of the goalies was also far worse

 

[Kranix]

Marner is literally a god in toronto. He's not going anywhere

 

[Leafs87]

In all honesty it’s a very difficult trade to execute. High cap, NMC, core player for the Leafs. This will have to be done properly rather than rushed.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

I think he gets traded by Xmas this year.

 

[TageGod]

If he wants to go, Buffalo wouldn't mind him as a 1 year rental. We need regular season heroes, Maybe he re-signs. Close to home small market team.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Yzerman had a .94 ppg vs Marners .88 ppg in the playoffs and it still took him 11 years, with far less teams in the league, and far less competition than we have now, and the quality of the goalies was also far worse

Goalies are worse now, not better.

 

[mydnyte]

Goalies are worse now, not better.

i hope you are kidding, or just too young to have seen goalies of the past.
goalie pads from the 90's weigh more than an entire set of goalie equipment today.

there were barely and goalies over 6' tall back then too, it was not common to have a 6'3-6 goalie which is now the average.

i.e. Mike Vernon 5'9", Cujo 5'11", Belfour 5'11", Richter 5'11", Roy was only 6' tall
Brodeur and Hasek were 2 of the bigger ones at 6'2"

as you go back decades, the goalies also get smaller and the equipment heavier(and smaller too)
one of my all time favs was Billy Smith, 5'10 and Palmateer 5'9" ...and mike Liut (the giant) at 6'2"

 

[Legend123]

Ovechkin had that same history until he finally won, and technically so did Yzerman...
it took him Yzerman 11 years to win his first cup, and those Red Wings teams were more like all star teams. OV took even longer, and he did have a very good supporting cast.

Yzerman had a .94 ppg vs Marners .88 ppg in the playoffs and it still took him 11 years, with far less teams in the league, and far less competition than we have now, and the quality of the goalies was also far worse

what about Thornton/Marleau and the Sharks??

 

[Golden_Jet]

i hope you are kidding, or just too young to have seen goalies of the past.
goalie pads from the 90's weigh more than an entire set of goalie equipment today.

there were barely and goalies over 6' tall back then too, it was not common to have a 6'3-6 goalie which is now the average.

i.e. Mike Vernon 5'9", Cujo 5'11", Belfour 5'11", Richter 5'11", Roy was only 6' tall
Brodeur and Hasek were 2 of the bigger ones at 6'2"

as you go back decades, the goalies also get smaller and the equipment heavier(and smaller too)
one of my all time favs was Billy Smith, 5'10 and Palmateer 5'9" ...and mike Liut (the giant) at 6'2"

Oof that’s a bad take, thinking goalies today are better,
must joking though, I hope.
I’ve seen all those goalies play you mentioned, and some live.

 

[mydnyte]

what about Thornton/Marleau and the Sharks??

geez, if they played here in their prime with their 'bad' playoff stats, fans wouldnt just want them traded they would want them lined up for execution.

there are more 'star' players that dont have good stats in the playoffs, than those that do.

 

[mydnyte]

Oof that’s a bad take, thinking goalies today are better,
must joking though, I hope.
I’ve seen all those goalies play you mentioned, and some live.

old time goalies are better in the sense that they didnt have any of the advantages goalies have today equipment wise, and had to rely on skill and athleticism, but, the shooters were not nearly as good either, and composite sticks give an average player a bazooka of a shot compared to an old Sherwood.

 

[Nervousbreakdown]

I feel like if Dubas didn't gift-wrap that NMC into the last bungled contract negotiations, Marner would be gone already.

Any player who put up those numbers was getting at the very least an M-NTC. But if rumours are true Dubas was considering moving him last summer before he got canned lol.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Oof that’s a bad take, thinking goalies today are better,
must joking though, I hope.
I’ve seen all those goalies play you mentioned, and some live.

Goalies got too effective when the 6’6 Michelin men rolled around in the late 00s to 2010s, teams stopped taking as many shots from distance and started playing specifically to counter goalies, every top forward is an elite hand eye deflection wizard when that used to be a relatively niche skillset to the point that a Holmstrom or JVR could make a living off just that one ability. 4 forward PPs and the death of the slapshot trimmed down a lot of the easier to save stat padding shots, dropping save%.

 

[FinlandPanther]

This loser is perfect for Toronto.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

Ovechkin had that same history until he finally won, and technically so did Yzerman...
it took him Yzerman 11 years to win his first cup, and those Red Wings teams were more like all star teams. OV took even longer, and he did have a very good supporting cast.

Yzerman had a .94 ppg vs Marners .88 ppg in the playoffs and it still took him 11 years, with far less teams in the league, and far less competition than we have now, and the quality of the goalies was also far worse

IMO, you have some confirmation bias of the teams that took a long time to figure it out. How about the teams like the Sharks or Sens who were good and never did?

It's possible the Leafs do figure it out, but they aren't a player or two away. I think they hired the right kind of coach, but it's really risky to run it back again. That said, you cab build a case for the Leafs to triple down because it's so hard to find difference makers and with JT's money they can upgrade the blueline. Just have to hope that AM and MM can figure it out.

 

[Dan Kelly]

On the June 2nd 32 thoughts podcast Friedman said don't be surprised if the Marner situation plays out over the season, he said that the Leafs don't want to make another deal based on emotion like they did with Kadri.

He said that as of June 2nd he wasn't sure Marner was getting traded.

I'm good with him coming back if that's how it works out.

I'm not against a core change like I have been in the past, but at the same time, I'm not looking to push him out the lineup either, you only move him if it makes sense, and it only makes sense if you can get REAL assets back and no I'm not talking about picks, and prospects and futures, those aren't real assets, those are magic beans, I'm not interested in magic beans.

If Marner is traded you need players, and they need to be good players, Marner is a 90+ point player, you can't trade him for magic beans that you HOPE grow into somebody as good or better than Marner

^^^this is exactly the BS I have posted about before....lots of tough talk about Marner being moved and yet I'm willing to bet the Leafs are too chicken to actually trade him ! "He gets 90 points, bla bla bla...." and disappears in the playoffs. But go ahead and keep basically the same team as every year, only make sure you book tee times early for next spring too!

 

[Calderon]

Does a team have the obligation to keep a player under contract in the active lineup for a minimum number of games? What I'm getting at is if the situation in Toronto gets really dirty, can the team just sit Marner indefinitely (same as telling an employee to stay home while still getting paid)? Might not be a great look for the franchise, sure, but as things stand Marner has them in handcuffs.

 

[Nogatco Rd]

Does a team have the obligation to keep a player under contract in the active lineup for a minimum number of games? What I'm getting at is if the situation in Toronto gets really dirty, can the team just sit Marner indefinitely (same as telling an employee to stay home while still getting paid)? Might not be a great look for the franchise, sure, but as things stand Marner has them in handcuffs.

why would they do that?

 

[Calderon]

why would they do that?

To convince him to waive the NMC.

 

[Strangle]

I get that’s it’s fun to shit on the leafs - but you can’t actually believe that he should be played on D.

That’s got to be one of the dumbest things I’ve read on this board, and there’s been some doozies.

If they keep him, that’s where they need the cap. The reason they shouldn’t keep him is because they need some of that $11m on RD

The isles got better because the team was sold to owners that had a clue and they hired Lamorillo and he hired Trotz. If you add Tavares to the teams that went to the ECF there is a damn good chance they walk away with a cup.

IMO Losing Marner for nothing would be worst case scenario.

It wouldn’t be ideal, but the team could also be better if they do lose home for nothing.

Like the isles

 

[Bust]

If they keep him, that’s where they need the cap. The reason they shouldn’t keep him is because they need some of that $11m on RD

Of course they do.

That doesn’t change the fact that playing Marner on D would be worse for the team and player than sitting him in the press box. Horrible suggestion and not something actually based in reality.

 

[Strangle]

Of course they do.

That doesn’t change the fact that playing Marner on D would be worse for the team and player than sitting him in the press box. Horrible suggestion and not something actually based in reality.

Then they’re better off letting him walk later or trading him now

That’s what I’m saying

 

[Based Anime Fan]

In other words Leafs management went to Marner and asked if he’d waive and Marner said no.


How exactly would the Leafs be able to move Marner if he says no?

I'm sure if the fanbase shits on him enough at games, he'll want to leave.

 

[hullsy47]

I'm sure if the fanbase shits on him enough at games, he'll want to leave.

if they dont free up money they are not doing anything anyway.the blame is on shanahan ,for letting kraft dinner dubas run this team like he was playing with tinker toys

Then they’re better off letting him walk later or trading him now

That’s what I’m saying

if he isnt a distraction .this coach doesnt coddle players .mich is a whiner