Management Don Sweeney V

[DKH]

Are/Were those guys you build around at that point or support players?

The franchise C turns 32y this offseason and Backes 33y.
While you say the plan is to have a top pairing of Lauzon- McAvoy who have 0 NHL game experience compined. That sounds great.

Maybe after they fire Sweeney and Neely they can clean house get rid of all the old guys and suck for 8 years like Toronto Columbus Buffalo Edmonton Winnipeg Florida and can get multi singe digit picks

Pasta and Carlo will be around 27/28 and ready to lead this group to a cup

 

[BB88]

Maybe after they fire Sweeney and Neely they can clean house get rid of all the old guys and suck for 8 years like Toronto Columbus Buffalo Edmonton Winnipeg Florida and can get multi singe digit picks

Pasta and Carlo will be around 27/28 and ready to lead this group to a cup

You can't really defend your view and then go all sarcastic.

You have to admit that plan has issues/questions and it's certainly not quaranteed to work.

 

[DominicT]

You had that and the hall for Larsson. I'm sure you could do Carlo plus a little something for Landeskog if you wanted. Sounds like he will be a King eventually though. There is nothing that has happened at all this season. Zero trades missed out on.

I'm feeling sort of lucky because there are some posts I can't see. But you I see Lou, so here are the in-season trades that "Sweeney missed on" (if you want to call it that)

These are the minor deals to date:

Panthers trade Connor Brickley to Canes for Brody Sutter
Pens trade Mike Condon to Sens for 5th round pick
Panthers trade Steve Kampfer + pick to Rangers for Dylan McIlrath
Devils trade a pick to Flyers for Petr Straka
Panthers trade Michael Sgarbossa to Ducks for Logan Shaw
CBJ trades Cody Goloubef to Avs for Ryan Stanton
Leafs trade Peter Holland to Yotes for a pick.

These are the blockbusters to date:

Did you look?

 

[LSCII]

I'm feeling sort of lucky because there are some posts I can't see. But you I see Lou, so here are the in-season trades that "Sweeney missed on" (if you want to call it that)

These are the minor deals to date:

Panthers trade Connor Brickley to Canes for Brody Sutter
Pens trade Mike Condon to Sens for 5th round pick
Panthers trade Steve Kampfer + pick to Rangers for Dylan McIlrath
Devils trade a pick to Flyers for Petr Straka
Panthers trade Michael Sgarbossa to Ducks for Logan Shaw
CBJ trades Cody Goloubef to Avs for Ryan Stanton
Leafs trade Peter Holland to Yotes for a pick.

These are the blockbusters to date:

Did you look?

To be fair, I have it on good authority that "trades are hard"...

 

[DKH]

You can't really defend your view and then go all sarcastic.

You have to admit that plan has issues/questions and it's certainly not quaranteed to work.

The plan is really elementary

1. Draft and develop to sustain a good team long term

Hire new and good scouts and they have and put more emphasis on college players

2. Compete while doing it

Sign a David Backes and vets like Moore

Integrate youth like Carlo Chiller Vatrano Pastrnak

Have the Bergeron Charas Backes etc teach the kids

That's really all it is

 

[DKH]

I'm feeling sort of lucky because there are some posts I can't see. But you I see Lou, so here are the in-season trades that "Sweeney missed on" (if you want to call it that)

These are the minor deals to date:

Panthers trade Connor Brickley to Canes for Brody Sutter
Pens trade Mike Condon to Sens for 5th round pick
Panthers trade Steve Kampfer + pick to Rangers for Dylan McIlrath
Devils trade a pick to Flyers for Petr Straka
Panthers trade Michael Sgarbossa to Ducks for Logan Shaw
CBJ trades Cody Goloubef to Avs for Ryan Stanton
Leafs trade Peter Holland to Yotes for a pick.

These are the blockbusters to date:

Did you look?

You told me Sweeney hired really good scouts this summer

And Pierre McGuire said the other day Boston guys like DS and John ferguson jr are doing a great job and the Bruins are building something special

So you posters want to fire a group that is building something special or do you really believe you know more than Bob McKenzie, Elliot Freidman, and McGuire who are 180 degrees from many of you

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I'm feeling sort of lucky because there are some posts I can't see. But you I see Lou, so here are the in-season trades that "Sweeney missed on" (if you want to call it that)

These are the minor deals to date:

Panthers trade Connor Brickley to Canes for Brody Sutter
Pens trade Mike Condon to Sens for 5th round pick
Panthers trade Steve Kampfer + pick to Rangers for Dylan McIlrath
Devils trade a pick to Flyers for Petr Straka
Panthers trade Michael Sgarbossa to Ducks for Logan Shaw
CBJ trades Cody Goloubef to Avs for Ryan Stanton
Leafs trade Peter Holland to Yotes for a pick.

These are the blockbusters to date:

Did you look?

Looks like a lot of GMs are just not getting it done.

 

[whatsbruin]

The plan is really elementary

1. Draft and develop to sustain a good team long term

Hire new and good scouts and they have and put more emphasis on college players

2. Compete while doing it

Sign a David Backes and vets like Moore

Integrate youth like Carlo Chiller Vatrano Pastrnak

Have the Bergeron Charas Backes etc teach the kids

That's really all it is

This is a great plan. would like to see mgmt identify the secondary prospects and trade them for young good nhl talent, help the nhl team a bit faster.

 

[4ORRBRUIN]

You told me Sweeney hired really good scouts this summer

And Pierre McGuire said the other day Boston guys like DS and John ferguson jr are doing a great job and the Bruins are building something special

So you posters want to fire a group that is building something special or do you really believe you know more than Bob McKenzie, Elliot Freidman, and McGuire who are 180 degrees from many of you

How boring would it be if every poster thought everything thing is great and believed we are building a juggernaut?

Not everyone has insider stuff or know someone who knows someone , Me? I'm on a game by game basis and know I **** people off You should try watching a game with me

 

[DominicT]

You told me Sweeney hired really good scouts this summer

And Pierre McGuire said the other day Boston guys like DS and John ferguson jr are doing a great job and the Bruins are building something special

So you posters want to fire a group that is building something special or do you really believe you know more than Bob McKenzie, Elliot Freidman, and McGuire who are 180 degrees from many of you

Dan:

I'm not sure if you quoted me by mistake or this is a shot at me, but if it's the latter:

When have I ever said anything about wanting Don Sweeney fired? I've been clear since day one (and I told you this over the phone just the other day) I don't think Chiarelli should have been fired and given a chance to fix his own undoing. But I was more than fine with Sweeney as his replacement.

And JFJ? When this board was in an uproar over his hiring, I was the first (and for a long time - only) person here defending the hiring. And if you remember correctly, it was I that talked you off the bridge and convinced you as to why he was a good hire.

I'm not in competition with Bob McKenzie, Elliotte Friedman or Pierre McGuire. But what I am is smart enough to use the abilities God gave me and that is to make decisions on my own and not have to rely on those three guys to affirm what I believe. I'll make my own case without having to turn to them to support my argument.

There isn't a single GM in the history of the National Hockey League that isn't deserving of some criticism at some point. Even the great Sam Pollock, probably the best GM ever took criticism.

Not a single GM is perfect and I'm sorry to tell you, neither is Don Sweeney. Is he deserving of all the criticism he gets here? No! But he is deserving of a little.

How about just letting people who provide criticism do just that? It makes for a much better board.

In the end, time will tell how his performances should be graded. And most people here will remember who was on which side of the argument.

 

[DKH]

Dan:

I'm not sure if you quoted me by mistake or this is a shot at me, but if it's the latter:

When have I ever said anything about wanting Don Sweeney fired? I've been clear since day one (and I told you this over the phone just the other day) I don't think Chiarelli should have been fired and given a chance to fix his own undoing. But I was more than fine with Sweeney as his replacement.

And JFJ? When this board was in an uproar over his hiring, I was the first (and for a long time - only) person here defending the hiring. And if you remember correctly, it was I that talked you off the bridge and convinced you as to why he was a good hire.

I'm not in competition with Bob McKenzie, Elliotte Friedman or Pierre McGuire. But what I am is smart enough to use the abilities God gave me and that is to make decisions on my own and not have to rely on those three guys to affirm what I believe. I'll make my own case without having to turn to them to support my argument.

There isn't a single GM in the history of the National Hockey League that isn't deserving of some criticism at some point. Even the great Sam Pollock, probably the best GM ever took criticism.

Not a single GM is perfect and I'm sorry to tell you, neither is Don Sweeney. Is he deserving of all the criticism he gets here? No! But he is deserving of a little.

How about just letting people who provide criticism do just that? It makes for a much better board.

In the end, time will tell how his performances should be graded. And most people here will remember who was on which side of the argument.

I said you told me they hired good scouts and McGuire backed it up saying they had a great org

Giving you props for a great call

Bang on assessment

 

[b in vancouver]

I think Sweeney waited too long last year to bring in reinforcements on defence and it cost them the playoffs. Morrow and C. Miller didn't do much of anything to help the team win and cost them more than a few games despite playing sheltered minutes. Trotman was slightly more reliable but - never brought enough to the table.

Not exactly what I think this year. I've expected the offence to sort itself out and over the past couple weeks it seems to be coming around. The defence has been surprisingly reliable. Rask has been solid.

There's a couple of 'ifs' that need to be sorted out. Can Vatrano cement himself as a scoring threat in the top 6? Can McIntyre give reliable back-up duties and actually win a couple games? Can the defence stay healthy enough and keep it together? Can the 3rd line be sorted out?

I much prefer the approach of icing the best team you can and aiming for the playoffs while slowly bringing along your prospects - allowing them to enter into the proper atmosphere. I think it's important for this team to make the playoffs this year - get some of these kids experience and see what the vets can do.

The biggest test Sweeney will face over the next year and a half is identifying which prospects will be core pieces going forward and which ones will be expendable to help the team or stock back up on futures, and not fall too in love with the players you've picked.

 

[b in vancouver]

It's not a matter of patience, the half-in/half-out approach is not a good one. It breeds frustration among the fans and makes the FO look incompetent. If they want to focus on drafting and development that's fine, I'm on board, but make that the priority and make it clear to the fans that's the priority. Being honest with the fan base makes us more understanding. Trying to bamboozle fans into thinking they're contenders with this half assed approach does not.

That's one way to look at it.

Not that I like everything Sweeney has or hasn't done (previous post - really wished he had gotten Chara a decent d-partner by this time last year) but I do appreciate what I perceive to be his philosophy to team building. Character core group of vets that know how to win. Get a few extra picks and target the kind of player you want (don't swing for the fences - value work ethic, leadership, character and players knowing their role) and try to get into the playoffs.

I'd argue that most of the successful franchises over the past 15 years have done both. San Jose, NYR, Boston, Detroit, St. Louis, L.A., New Jersey, Anaheim, Philadelphia, Montreal, might have a bad year or something, but simply transition and aren't scared of veteran players.
Teams that have focused too much on kids and drafting - like Atlanta/Winnipeg, Edmonton, NYI, Florida, Columbus, Arizona, Toronto, Colorado, Buffalo, are the opposite.

 

[Lord Ahriman]

Dan:

I'm not sure if you quoted me by mistake or this is a shot at me, but if it's the latter:

When have I ever said anything about wanting Don Sweeney fired? I've been clear since day one (and I told you this over the phone just the other day) I don't think Chiarelli should have been fired and given a chance to fix his own undoing. But I was more than fine with Sweeney as his replacement.

And JFJ? When this board was in an uproar over his hiring, I was the first (and for a long time - only) person here defending the hiring. And if you remember correctly, it was I that talked you off the bridge and convinced you as to why he was a good hire.

I'm not in competition with Bob McKenzie, Elliotte Friedman or Pierre McGuire. But what I am is smart enough to use the abilities God gave me and that is to make decisions on my own and not have to rely on those three guys to affirm what I believe. I'll make my own case without having to turn to them to support my argument.

There isn't a single GM in the history of the National Hockey League that isn't deserving of some criticism at some point. Even the great Sam Pollock, probably the best GM ever took criticism.

Not a single GM is perfect and I'm sorry to tell you, neither is Don Sweeney. Is he deserving of all the criticism he gets here? No! But he is deserving of a little.

How about just letting people who provide criticism do just that? It makes for a much better board.

In the end, time will tell how his performances should be graded. And most people here will remember who was on which side of the argument.

Well said, sir. DKH is a great poster, but lately he is just acting like Sweeney's lawyer. If he likes Sweeney and agree everything he has done, it's ok, but you can't say some of us are wrong just because we think he is not what we were expecting.

 

[JAD]

I think Sweeney waited too long last year to bring in reinforcements on defence and it cost them the playoffs. Morrow and C. Miller didn't do much of anything to help the team win and cost them more than a few games despite playing sheltered minutes. Trotman was slightly more reliable but - never brought enough to the table.

Not exactly what I think this year. I've expected the offence to sort itself out and over the past couple weeks it seems to be coming around. The defence has been surprisingly reliable. Rask has been solid.

There's a couple of 'ifs' that need to be sorted out. Can Vatrano cement himself as a scoring threat in the top 6? Can McIntyre give reliable back-up duties and actually win a couple games? Can the defence stay healthy enough and keep it together? Can the 3rd line be sorted out?

I much prefer the approach of icing the best team you can and aiming for the playoffs while slowly bringing along your prospects - allowing them to enter into the proper atmosphere. I think it's important for this team to make the playoffs this year - get some of these kids experience and see what the vets can do.

The biggest test Sweeney will face over the next year and a half is identifying which prospects will be core pieces going forward and which ones will be expendable to help the team or stock back up on futures, and not fall too in love with the players you've picked.

Here is the thing, and It's not just you but many posters, there is an assumption that Sweeney is not trying to do anything to improve the team via trades or that he is waiting too long (as you suggested he did last year) to pull the trigger.
Is it not equally possible that he is trying to make trades and that there simply isn't a trade that will improve the Bruins or possibly it is other GMs that are dragging their feet.
We have it on good authority that last year he tried to get shattenkirk, but parties couldn't agree. We hear this year he was in talks about landeskog and that situation is pending and ether stalled or on going ... parties can't agree.
To say he is not trying is an outright untruth.
Personally I believe he is trying to improve the team but just not at the cost of the future or the present. Trading Carlo now does not help now - the present day. The key is to build for today without damaging tomorrow.

Edit: wanted to add that outside of the first paragraph (which reminded me of so many others complaining) I agree with your assessment.

 

[b in vancouver]

Here is the thing, and It's not just you but many posters, there is an assumption that Sweeney is not trying to do anything to improve the team via trades or that he is waiting too long (as you suggested he did last year) to pull the trigger.
Is it not equally possible that he is trying to make trades and that there simply isn't a trade that will improve the Bruins or possibly it is other GMs that are dragging their feet.
We have it on good authority that last year he tried to get shattenkirk, but parties couldn't agree. We hear this year he was in talks about landeskog and that situation is pending and ether stalled or on going ... parties can't agree.
To say he is not trying is an outright untruth.
Personally I believe he is trying to improve the team but just not at the cost of the future or the present. Trading Carlo now does not help now - the present day. The key is to build for today without damaging tomorrow.

Edit: wanted to add that outside of the first paragraph (which reminded me of so many others complaining) I agree with your assessment.

Don't get me wrong.
ya, I get how tough it is to make trades in today's NHL.
Just don't want to be all glowing ... because they did miss and some of that has to fall on his shoulders.
I don't blame him, but just really wanted something done there and was disappointed he couldn't swing a deal (even for Liles earlier or a washed up Boyle or something) I was glad he held onto Eriksson. I'm glad he brought in Stempniak and Liles.

My complaint about last year - came from a lot of people and posters wanting to play the young d-men more as if C. Miller, Morrow, Trotman only needed a few more games or something. I would read posts and wonder if I just watched the same game. As if it's more important to develop a #4 or #5 d-man than making the playoffs.
And how Chara was done.
To my eyes, it was just such a glaring weakness - as it also took Chara out of the play on too many occassions. I just wanted them to go out and get anyone. Just a proper vet that could play decent, that you could trust out there and make a decent d to d pass and not panic under pressure.

But I also definitely know you need two to tango.

 

[Coach Parker]

Love this discussion.

It's a discussion worth having. Let's add fuel to the fire:

Don Sweeney will be considered a failure this year in all accounts if he doesn't add to this bubble team to make the playoffs while not sacrificing McAvoy or Carlo.

Missing the playoffs and developing all the prospects is a failure to the fans. The ones who pay over 100.00 / hour at home games to watch them play .500 hockey at home.

If he drafted so well and so many are ready to make the jump then others see that as well and they have ample amounts of assets. Or maybe he hasn't drafted a ton of NHL talent and his dimes aren't worth much on the market.

It's kind of hard to sell the fans that trades are hard, they are trying to add to make this a playoff team, their prospects are all developing well...and that the price is too high to make a trade.

The final one I love is going to other boards and a large amount of fans telling other fans that their GM needs another partner to make a trade...

 

[DominicT]

I said you told me they hired good scouts and McGuire backed it up saying they had a great org

Giving you props for a great call

Bang on assessment

Fair enough Dan. When you quote my post and say "you posters" it looks like a direct shot at me.

But as I said, I don't want to use McKenzie,Friedman or McGuire to back anything up I've said. I'd rather stand on my on two feet. It's gotten me this far and I'd like to continue that way.

In the end, everyone knows where you stand on Sweeney. Time tells everything. In two years we can come back to this thread and see what opinions were and hopefully not turn it into an "I told you so".

In the meantime, people should have a civil debate without either side "coming to the defense" of their thoughts.

I don't see that happening in this thread (and some others) which causes me to put more and more threads on ignore and more and more people on ignore. And I'm afraid that is where this thread has headed for me as well.

 

[C77]

I have to say that overall I'm happy with Sweeney to this point.

That's not to say I agree with everything. I would have taken a different route, namely by cutting down on the veterans on the pro roster a little bit more around the time of the Lucic deal, and then signing some free agents to fill the gap, eventually moving them out to pick up more young pieces, but the GM, as Machiavelli said, has to deal with the matter at hand, no GM exists in a vacuum and part of his job is satisfying his bosses who want playoffs. It is what it is. Plus there is no guarantee that the Bruins would have had a successful rebuild if they had blown it up.

So the positive elements to me of Sweeney's approach are that the young players coming up aren't placed in a toxic environment, there are good veteran leaders around, the team wins its fair share, and the youngsters don't have the world on their shoulders to be saviors.

I realize part of the angst is that the Bruins are in the mediocrity zone which is what I would have hoped to avoid by cutting down faster and subsequently building up faster. It is understandably frustrating because you don't get the carrot of high draft pick nor the idea that they could soon be a contender.

That said, I do think that this team if it got hot at the right time, and if they added a Top 4 defenseman and another solid winger, could possibly win 2 playoff series. But I wouldn't consider them a true contender due to the higher ages of key players and inexperience in younger ones. Sooner or later they would get exposed, likely sooner, and consequently I am not in favor of rentals.

The good thing is that we're in the hunt for the playoffs and I'm choosing to put my attention on that. I'm excited to see if we can take the last division spot. I find the team likable because I think they generally give a pretty good effort.

I think the future of the defense is looking pretty good, but that is going to be at another 2-3 years to see the fruit of labor. My objective for Sweeney is to look toward picking up a young center with high upside. I don't mean guys that "could one day play in the NHL". I mean a young center that you can build around. Of course, #1 pick franchise centers don't grow on trees, but if Sweeney turns up a stud young center, via trade, draft, or development of the guys already in the org., then I think this team will be in good position

 

[RedeyeRocketeer]

gut feel, I suspect we're going to see a really boring trade deadline where the Bruins do almost nothing. And frankly that may indeed be better than the alternative. Obviously selling is going to be 100% out of the question.

 

[chizzler]

It seems to me Sweeney is waiting for his draftees to graduate. I hope he's around to see the fruits of his labor.

 

[ODAAT]

I'm feeling sort of lucky because there are some posts I can't see. But you I see Lou, so here are the in-season trades that "Sweeney missed on" (if you want to call it that)

These are the minor deals to date:

Panthers trade Connor Brickley to Canes for Brody Sutter
Pens trade Mike Condon to Sens for 5th round pick
Panthers trade Steve Kampfer + pick to Rangers for Dylan McIlrath
Devils trade a pick to Flyers for Petr Straka
Panthers trade Michael Sgarbossa to Ducks for Logan Shaw
CBJ trades Cody Goloubef to Avs for Ryan Stanton
Leafs trade Peter Holland to Yotes for a pick.

These are the blockbusters to date:

Did you look?

great, all those transactions and our GM sitting on his hands as usual

 

[Sharp Shooting Neely]

The formula to make it to the top of the heep often requires the combination of good drafting, free agent acquisitions and additions via trade. It's the timing for each that is also important. The first two appear to be in hand. The circumstances today do not lend themselves to acting on the third. It will present itself once the expansion draft, entry draft and cap situations are clearer for all teams, not just the Bruins.

No indication that Sweeny has not got the perspective and patience to act appropriately when the timing is right. Some may point to a couple of questionable moves from him initially. Always though of it more as being made to plug a few cracks in the dam at that time. They don't all work out as planned. The overall picture remains in focus for the medium and longer term.

 

[ODAAT]

The formula to make it to the top of the heep often requires the combination of good drafting, free agent acquisitions and additions via trade. It's the timing for each that is also important. The first two appear to be in hand. The circumstances today do not lend themselves to acting on the third. It will present itself once the expansion draft, entry draft and cap situations are clearer for all teams, not just the Bruins.

No indication that Sweeny has not got the perspective and patience to act appropriately when the timing is right. Some may point to a couple of questionable moves from him initially. Always though of it more as being made to plug a few cracks in the dam at that time. They don't all work out as planned. The overall picture remains in focus for the medium and longer term.

excellent post, the unfortunate thing is in this day and age, most fans want to hear nothing about medium and long term goals

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

excellent post, the unfortunate thing is in this day and age, most fans want to hear nothing about medium and long term goals

Don't think that is anything new for fans.