Does Marner lose his 'A' with the leadership changes?

[QJo]

Always thought it was silly make everyone happy compromise stuff for them to split. Make a choice, be strong and decisive, like you want your leaders to be.
Marchand didn't even get an A for a long time and now he is Captain.
Now you're going to demote someone from an Assistant and then negotiate their next prime contract? Everything seems to be the past haunting this organization.

 

[notDatsyuk]

The discussion you entered was about secondary assists.


I have no clue why you started talking about goals.

You can't even keep track of what you are posting.

The topic was primary assists, and you were the one who brought up Nylander, and said Marner had more primary points than Nylander. I just pointed out that Nylander had fewer assists because he was scoring goals instead.

In fact, since you changed it from 'primary assists' to 'primary points', I should point out that (again, over the last five years) Nylander actually has more primary points (goals + primary assists) than Marner.

I can see why you don't want to admit that you know what I'm talking about, and why you edit out the parts you have no response to.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Since when?

Since always? I have never seen a goal recorded as "goal by Matthews, assists by Tavares and Matthews".

Bigger issue with Nylander was the goals against more so than the goals for.
Hopefully he’ll be a plus player going forward.

Getting him away from Tavares will help a lot.

 

[Hellcat]

Since always? I have never seen a goal recorded as "goal by Matthews, assists by Tavares and Matthews".


Getting him away from Tavares will help a lot.

Well you have not been watching the game long enough then, happens all the time (I was joking by the way )

 

[notDatsyuk]

We don't have to pay more than another team, infact we can more than likely pay 1/2 million less. 11 max.

Certainly Tre isn't as likely to overpay him as Dubas did.

But with Nylander getting $11.5, he probably uses that as a comparable here, whereas out in the real world his comps are making less.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

I've yet to see a realistic way to prevent it.

I'm sure the Isles thought the same thing when they lost Tavarshit for nothing and ended up winning more rounds in one year than we have in his entire time here.

But you go ahead and keep being scared of change.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Well you have not been watching the game long enough then, happens all the time (I was joking by the way )

I wasn't sure. The helps.

Wait a minute - 65 years isn't long enough?

 

[Antropovsky]

Certainly Tre isn't as likely to overpay him as Dubas did.

But with Nylander getting $11.5, he probably uses that as a comparable here, whereas out in the real world his comps are making less.

If the argument was made that they deserved more because rookie bonuses werent given and Marner wanted to be paid like his comparables...than Marner should take a significant discount because he didnt live up to his huge contract, therefore he should give money back. Or does it only work one way?

Nylander far exceeded his pay and was justified a big raise, considering how much more Marner got then him on the first one.

Marner wanted fairness before... well time for him to be fair now.

Looking back in hindsight at his demands, it just shows how out to lunch he was. He wanted to be paid like Tavares and Matthews...well tavares was a two time hart nominee, former captain, first overall, and number one center by the time he was 27.

What Tavares achieved by the time he was 27 is far more than what Marner has achieved at 27. And if course. Tavares contract was a ufa. He also sacrificed year 8 and took less to play in Toronto.

Matthews is light years ahead of Marner and has a full trophy case. If Matthews wanted, he couldve put himaelf on the market and certainly had max contracts offersheets...but he didnt.

Marner.... fought tooth and nail to squeeze every penny extra.

Also, remember Paul went to the media because he was pissed that Marner wasnt it the conversation about being captain. Well now we can see that the guy isnt even Assistant captain material.

 

[BobClarkesfrontteeth]

Refuses to accept personal accountability.

Points the fingers at his teammates. Instead of demanding more from the man in the mirror. This is on top of waging his own personal war with anyone not in his inner circle.

Does this sound like leadership material to you?

Stripping Marner of his "A" should be the very next step. Make it clear to this loser he's not wanted here anymore. He can be a crybaby about it and try to hold the team hostage by refusing to waive



He won't be getting another contract from the Toronto Maple Leafs.

The only thing Marner led was the charge to the bank anyway. His guerilla negotiation tactics made clear he worships at the altar of mammon. Now he can lead the charge out the door.

Take Tavares, Treliving, and Shanahan with him too.

Take it easy there Francis.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

You can't even keep track of what you are posting.

The topic was primary assists, and you were the one who brought up Nylander, and said Marner had more primary points than Nylander. I just pointed out that Nylander had fewer assists because he was scoring goals instead.

In fact, since you changed it from 'primary assists' to 'primary points', I should point out that (again, over the last five years) Nylander actually has more primary points (goals + primary assists) than Marner.

I can see why you don't want to admit that you know what I'm talking about, and why you edit out the parts you have no response to.

Holy shit , Dekes taking an L in a semantics debate. It truly is a new era.

 

[Dekes For Days]

The topic was primary assists, and you were the one who brought up Nylander, and said Marner had more primary points than Nylander.

The topic was not primary assists. Primary assists were in fact never once mentioned until you just now.
As I showed you, the topic was secondary assists, spawned from this comment:

The overwhelming majority of his playoff points have been empty calorie secondary assists

I also never said that "Marner had more primary points than Nylander" (even though he does). I said that Marner had a higher primary point percentage (the percentage of a player's total points that are primary). My response outlined that the secondary assist claim was wrong:

The overwhelming majority of his playoff points have been primary points. He actually has a higher primary point percentage than Nylander.

The overwhelming majority of his points were not secondary assists. The majority of his points were primary points (goals + primary assists).
To emphasize the point, I noted that Marner wasn't even the core 4 member that had the lowest primary point percentage. That was Nylander.

I have no clue what you're talking about, or why, but you seem more interested in misrepresenting me and my posts anyway.

 

[Hellcat]

I wasn't sure. The helps.

Wait a minute - 65 years isn't long enough?

Uh you got to add at least 50 on there...

Certainly Tre isn't as likely to overpay him as Dubas did.

But with Nylander getting $11.5, he probably uses that as a comparable here, whereas out in the real world his comps are making less.

Overpay is a relative term.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I'm sure the Isles thought the same thing when they lost Tavarshit for nothing and ended up winning more rounds in one year than we have in his entire time here.
But you go ahead and keep being scared of change.

I'm not scared of change. I just recognize when proposed change is bad. The Islanders winning some rounds had nothing to do Tavares leaving.
If Tavares was there, maybe they actually win something meaningful.

 

[LeafSteel]

Holy shit , Dekes taking an L in a semantics debate. It truly is a new era.

It’s what it always comes down to when he’s called out.

When h e gets his bs called he always resorts to “you are misrepresenting wut I’m sayyyyyying” and turning things into semantics.

Don’t know why anyone bothers with him. Life is too short for it.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

I especially admired when he tried to get in her car. Omg guys it's not that bad to try and get into a woman's car at night with your buddies and then try and hide it so you can still be named captain. Stop being negative guys. I hope to buy a Carter Hart and Dillon Dube jersey at Real Sports in the near future.

That's not what actually happened a friend of his approached her to see if she was interested in talking to a multi million dollar famous athlete in his hometown.

Please stop your social justice nonsense, you're making me unlike your username.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

I'm sure the Isles thought the same thing when they lost Tavarshit for nothing and ended up winning more rounds in one year than we have in his entire time here.

But you go ahead and keep being scared of change.

I honestly don't understand these people that are so afraid of change. They would rather be: "We can't trade X player because we might end up losing ....so we will just continue to lose instead to prevent us from possibly losing in the future by making a trade"...what kind of mental pretzel do you have to get yourself into to think like that?

 

[HockeyVirus]

Every leader doesn't win doesn't make them less of a leader. Could give many examples. However I'll just give one Wendel Clark nobody can deny he was a leader heart and soul player your very own.

My point is that people use the lack of winning to say a guy like Matthews isn't a leader (check the main board thread). So I just dislike the double standard narrative.

I swear that 90% of things posters write in threads like these are based on stories that they've made up and told so many times that they now believe them to be true.

Yup. Just like all the folks claiming Matthews refused to play in the playoffs with a cold.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

I'm not scared of change. I just recognize when proposed change is bad. The Islanders winning some rounds had nothing to do Tavares leaving.
If Tavares was there, maybe they actually win something meaningful.

Then he came here and also managed to win nothing meaningful.

Seems like there’s a pattern.

Anyway, you seem to be scared of change because we might lose a trade on paper.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

In a small group he might be a great guy, and relaxed, in his environment.

On display it might be where he is uncomfortable. There have been cringe worthy moments in public, but one reason is he might care deeply and never learned from Spock. No not the doctor ...

As far as the playoffs drop-off, not everyone can be Draisaitl where his PPG is higher in the playoffs.

Give him an 'A' if it is necessary for his mental health.

Don't give him an "A" so he understands they don't want him so he demands to be traded.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

I don't think he's been asked to waive yet, because there is no point in asking until there is a potential deal that he might agree to waive for.

The problem is more likely that they haven't received an offer that meets the two main criteria:

1 - a return that the Leafs feel is acceptable
2 - a team that they feel he might be willing to go to.

For example, if the only offer they got was from Boston for a 2nd round pick, Marner might be willing to go there, but the team would want more. Or if they were offered two 1sts by Montreal, the team might like it, but probably know that Mitch would refuse. In either scenario, why bother asking him to waive?

Did you know that at one time the flat earth society website bragged that they had members all around the world?


I'm pretty sure that he hasn't been asked, for the reasons stated above, but do we actually know for a fact that he hasn't been asked?

How about we add a 3- A team that will agree to his outrageous salary demands.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

I said Nylander got more goals, and you somehow read that as 'secondary assists'?

In case you don't know, if you score a goals you do not get an assist on it.

And your habit of making partial quotes to avoid the real point is as childishly annoying as usual, but that's probably why you do it, right?

Stop responding to trolls, and eventually, when they discover they have no "influence", they go away.

Always thought it was silly make everyone happy compromise stuff for them to split. Make a choice, be strong and decisive, like you want your leaders to be.
Marchand didn't even get an A for a long time and now he is Captain.
Now you're going to demote someone from an Assistant and then negotiate their next prime contract? Everything seems to be the past haunting this organization.

Or maybe if he doesn't get an "A" IT sends a signal to him and his tone deaf followers here his juice ain't worth the squeeze and he needs to GTFO.

 

[Killer Orcas]

My point is that people use the lack of winning to say a guy like Matthews isn't a leader (check the main board thread). So I just dislike the double standard narrative.

My bad I missed that.

 

[QJo]

Or maybe if he doesn't get an "A" IT sends a signal to him and his tone deaf followers here his juice ain't worth the squeeze and he needs to GTFO.

That just isn't the way professional sports teams send messages. It's unprofessional and bad asset management. If there are examples of it then they are just examples of how not to run an organization.
If he is to be dealt it will be through mature conversation between Marner, his agent and management. Not tough guy insult and value diminishing treatment. Since of course that would just lead to him walking for nothing out spite if nothing else.
Some believe he would be an addition by subtraction candidate but I doubt any would argue it's better to have him walk than be traded. So the goal should be either extend or trade and all treatment should lead towards one of those. Even if he walks he should be treated like an asset that could be traded or extended.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Then he came here and also managed to win nothing meaningful.
Seems like there’s a pattern.
Anyway, you seem to be scared of change because we might lose a trade on paper.

Not sure what pattern you're talking about, but not wanting to make the team worse and less likely to win a cup isn't a fear of change. It's just wanting what's best for my team. If there's any fear-based positions here, it would be advocating for destructive panic moves for the sake of "change".

 

[57 Years No Cup]

That just isn't the way professional sports teams send messages. It's unprofessional and bad asset management. If there are examples of it then they are just examples of how not to run an organization.
If he is to be dealt it will be through mature conversation between Marner, his agent and management. Not tough guy insult and value diminishing treatment. Since of course that would just lead to him walking for nothing out spite if nothing else.
Some believe he would be an addition by subtraction candidate but I doubt any would argue it's better to have him walk than be traded. So the goal should be either extend or trade and all treatment should lead towards one of those. Even if he walks he should be treated like an asset that could be traded or extended.

Maybe they already had the "mature conversation" and Marner won't accept reality. I don't know. All I know is the situation all of next season will be toxic to the team until it's dealt with.