Does dubas remain GM if the leafs get bounced by Florida?

[3blizzard4]

The fact that they let him run out his contract and no resign him during the season or during the playoffs says a lot.

Maybe he chose not to resign?

But all this is very telling and it all points to Dubas not coming back.

Why resign him now and not before? What has he shown you that makes you say “wow we need this guy moving forward” that you didn’t see during the season, trade deadline, win over TB series?

 

[notbias]

In my opinion, here is the problem with Kyle Dubas:

1. he is too attached to players that he either personally signed or traded for

2. he doesn't seem to admit or correct his past mistakes quickly enough or in a cost-efficient manner

3. he sometimes makes the same mistakes all over again

4. he only recently decided to stray away from his own preferred team building strategy which is solely based upon speed, skill, and hockey analytics

5. for some unknown reason, he extremely loyal to former hockey players with whom he has worked with in the past as a former certified NHLPA player agent and/or former GM of the OHL’s Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds

In my opinion, the Toronto Maple Leafs really need a new GM right now who is not bias and is willing to do whatever it takes to progress the hockey club forward in a new and much more successful direction.

The Sandin trade basically refutes half your points...

Sandin was his first draft pick and he was from the Soo... he also quickly fixes mistakes unlike other GMs, it is probably his best trait.

The fact that they let him run out his contract and no resign him during the season or during the playoffs says a lot.

Maybe he chose not to resign?

But all this is very telling and it all points to Dubas not coming back.

Why resign him now and not before? What has he shown you that makes you say “wow we need this guy moving forward” that you didn’t see during the season, trade deadline, win over TB series?

Pretty sure he chose not to resign, I remember an insider saying it was his choice, he wanted to be judged on his full contract or something.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Dubas not having a contract when the draft is less than 2 months away speaks volumes.

There is so much work to do before July 1, I think the Leafs are forced to extend Dubas.

Extending Dubas before the playoffs this year would have looked bad if they bounced to Tampa.

 

[LeafEgo]

Did you ever feel like Tampa or Florida was outmatched by the Leafs? That's the important part of this. Tampa is slowing down as each yearly version of their team gets weaker and weaker due to having to jettison more depth and with their core aging and putting on hard miles.....like going to 3 straight SC Finals while winning 2 of them.

Florida, simply isn't that good of a team. They play hard and they are good enough to not beat themselves and make their opponent beat them. There was nothing impressive about how Florida looked and played against the Leafs....and they wrapped the series in 5 games.

We were outclassed badly by the Bolts, 9 out of 10 we lose that series.

Cats were pretty even. Both teams had trouble connecting and converting. Cats won the puck battles, forecheck, and physical game, and that was enough to keep them slightly ahead with consistency.

Ultimately we won 5 games this post season, 4 in OT and a few of those were bad. Can't imagine anyone who was watching games across the league was making any wagers on the Leafs.

 

[Trapper]

We were outclassed badly by the Bolts, 9 out of 10 we lose that series.

Cats were pretty even. Both teams had trouble connecting and converting. Cats won the puck battles, forecheck, and physical game, and that was enough to keep them slightly ahead with consistency.

Ultimately we won 5 games this post season, 4 in OT and a few of those were bad. Can't imagine anyone who was watching games across the league was making any wagers on the Leafs.

The fact that Tampa was better than us most of the time and we were basically there only to see what the 2nd round looked like, leaves the team still needed to prove the can go through a season and win a round again.
And I’d rather not run it back.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Maple Leafs Fans May Finally Get Kyle Dubas' Head on a Platter - The Hockey Writers Latest News, Analysis & More

The Toronto Maple Leafs fans have wanted Kyle Dubas fired for a long time. If that happens, where might he go? Would that be positive?

thehockeywriters.com

Here is a top 10 list of criticisms that I’ve heard Dubas face:

1. Dubas has focused too much on analytics and not enough on traditional scouting methods.

2. Dubas has signed players to questionable contracts. Specifically, he’s signed stars to expensive contracts and let go of other valuable players. The result is that the roster is too top-heavy. He overpaid star players Auston Matthews, Mitch Marner, and John Tavares, which has limited the team’s ability to build a deep roster.

3. Despite changes to the team each offseason, the Maple Leafs have failed to win in the playoffs. That has led to disappointment for fans. Specifically, their defense is weak and Dubas has not done enough to address this issue.

4. The Maple Leafs’ lack of success in the playoffs is a reflection of Dubas’ inability to build a team that can win in the postseason. Specifically, his teams have failed to win a single playoff series, despite having talented players.

5. Dubas has not done enough to address the team’s lack of toughness and physicality. He avoids signing physical players, resulting in a team that is weak and soft in the playoffs.

6. The team’s salary cap situation is a mess. That’s due to Dubas’ bad decisions.

7. Dubas has not done enough to address the team’s goaltending issues. Signing Matt Murray and Ilya Samsonov was a huge mistake.

8. Dubas has made a series of bad trades. He’s brought in underperforming players and has let good ones walk for nothing.

9. Dubas hasn’t helped the organization improve its minor league system. He doesn’t show enough patience in developing young players; and, he’s traded away too many prospects and draft picks.

10. The Maple Leafs’ lack of success in recent years is a reflection of a deeper organizational issue; however, because Dubas is the general manager, it’s his fault. He has done a poor job and hasn’t taken enough accountability for his team’s failures.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Here is more from James Mirtle of The Athletic:

Is there even time to clean house at the very top, with only six weeks until the draft and free agency period begins?

If not, if you’re going with Shanahan into the next phase of major decisions, then the question becomes: Do you commit to Dubas on a new long-term deal, given there are potentially other organizations interested and driving up the price?

And, even if you do want to commit, does Dubas still want to stay?

It’s not exactly the league’s best-kept secret that Shanahan and Dubas have been somewhat at odds this season, something evident in the fact they haven’t watched many games together, a change from years past.

Is that schism deep enough to mean a GM change is coming for certain? I don’t believe so, no. This isn’t going to be about personality conflicts. But it’s also clear that keeping this front office together will be far more complicated than simply coming up with a modest extension offer for the incumbent.

Dubas, those close to him say, will want to be paid handsomely, especially if there are other offers from the likes of Pittsburgh, Calgary or even division rival Ottawa. And he will want greater job security and autonomy within whatever structure Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment settles on.

Getting the GM situation set quickly will be step one for the franchise. And it’s a huge one because all the other pieces are going to be connected to it.

 

[socko]

The fact that Tampa was better than us most of the time and we were basically there only to see what the 2nd round looked like, leaves the team still needed to prove the can go through a season and win a round again.
And I’d rather not run it back.

It took a goalie with a 0.875 save percentage for the Leafs to finally get through to the 2nd round, only for them to get trounced in the 2nd round. They are far from contending for the Cup. The $11 million dollar club was a total joke against Florida. What once was a fast skill team is now a really slow team. The defense is really bad, you basically have 1 solid pairing and the rest is crap. I was starting to believe a little in Liljegren, but he was horrendous all playoffs long.

 

[yubbers]

In any other "Competent" and "profession/team with accountability" this wouldn't be a debate

Time to see how 'competent' and 'accountable' MLSE is

So help me god if this clown survives more failure.

 

[capfit9]

Here is more from James Mirtle of The Athletic:

Is there even time to clean house at the very top, with only six weeks until the draft and free agency period begins?

If not, if you’re going with Shanahan into the next phase of major decisions, then the question becomes: Do you commit to Dubas on a new long-term deal, given there are potentially other organizations interested and driving up the price?

And, even if you do want to commit, does Dubas still want to stay?

It’s not exactly the league’s best-kept secret that Shanahan and Dubas have been somewhat at odds this season, something evident in the fact they haven’t watched many games together, a change from years past.

Is that schism deep enough to mean a GM change is coming for certain? I don’t believe so, no. This isn’t going to be about personality conflicts. But it’s also clear that keeping this front office together will be far more complicated than simply coming up with a modest extension offer for the incumbent.

Dubas, those close to him say, will want to be paid handsomely, especially if there are other offers from the likes of Pittsburgh, Calgary or even division rival Ottawa. And he will want greater job security and autonomy within whatever structure Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment settles on.

Getting the GM situation set quickly will be step one for the franchise. And it’s a huge one because all the other pieces are going to be connected to it.

Problem for Dubas is that his contract runs till June 30th, so the Leafs can easily wait those teams out since i'm sure Calgary & Pitt will want someone to be in place before the draft.

 

[GoonieFace]

Does Keefe really seem like a leader of men? Look at some of the great coaches thatve seen success. Brind'amour, Cooper, Gallant, Johnston, Berube, Sutter. Players should be ready to run through a wall for their coach, and also be somewhat scared shitless of him. Keefe brings neither to the table

Keefe brings nothing to the table, he more just eats everything that’s on it

 

[Gabriel426]

I have a feeling Spezza does become AGM I told my wife this morning. You don’t put Spezza beside Dubas without trusting his ability to scout players and his knowledge of the game.

Only thing is Dubas is fired. New GM promote Spezza as AGM

I agree too. Pretty sure Spezza is advising decisions on what type of players are needed in the locker room.

 

[Apex Predator]

I agree too. Pretty sure Spezza is advising decisions on what type of players are needed in the locker room.

We’ve spent the last 3 seasons bringing in leadership players to the Locker room. That says enough that there is concerns with the core in the locker room and that this experiment should end.

 

[Gabriel426]

In my opinion, here is the problem with Kyle Dubas:

1. he is too attached to players that he either personally signed or traded for

2. he doesn't seem to admit or correct his past mistakes quickly enough or in a cost-efficient manner

3. he sometimes makes the same mistakes all over again

4. he only recently decided to stray away from his own preferred team building strategy which is solely based upon speed, skill, and hockey analytics

5. for some unknown reason, he extremely loyal to former hockey players with whom he has worked with in the past as a former certified NHLPA player agent and/or former GM of the OHL’s Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds

In my opinion, the Toronto Maple Leafs really need a new GM right now who is not bias and is willing to do whatever it takes to progress the hockey club forward in a new and much more successful direction.

He does correct his mistakes quick though.
I do think he is to attach to players he had personal relationship with which is normal as a human beings but not good in a professional setting.
I do think he will present the direction and if the direction is changes and look to trade JT, I don’t see why he should not be extended. I really see Dubas starting to look at building a roster to win the Cup. Before Dubas wants to outsmart people with his new ideas….but now, he is building the old fashion way and understand can’t be attach to players. Engvall and Sandin are examples and Keefe will be next.

 

[Gabriel426]

We’ve spent the last 3 seasons bringing in leadership players to the Locker room. That says enough that there is concerns with the core in the locker room and that this experiment should end.

I agree with you. But the experiment is not Dubas and more with the top guys.
Like I said in another thread, if the new GM is just coming in and getting a new coach with the same core, there will be no difference.
If Dubas hires a new coach and trade JT for Wilson and Mantha, why cut him.

Dubas is the chef and the winning the Cup is like thanksgiving dinner. Right now, none of our top guys is Turkey and that’s why we can’t have a great thanksgiving dinner. Changing the chef with the same ingredients(players) won’t change anything.

The key is to getting players more suited to compliment AM, MM and Willie by trading JT. If that’s doesn’t work, you look at trading AM, MM and Willie, whoever that’s still don’t have the right mindset.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Strange. The usual DDL suspects are conspicuously absent, but there are several accounts I've never seen here irrationally defending Dubas.

Fascinating.

 

[stats1]

I agree too. Pretty sure Spezza is advising decisions on what type of players are needed in the locker room.

If he’s not doing that at least then wtf is he doing. They pan the camera every 5 mins to Dubas reaction. And the way Dubas reacted tells me this is a guy under extreme circumstances. The people on here who think this guy is getting a new contract after he is shown flipping out on literally every call is bad. You can’t have a GM yelling at fans, you can’t have a GM screaming in the box. You can’t have a GM take 4 years to realize his philosophy was wrong. Dubas and Keefe are goners. Shanahan is on thin ice but he may have more support than we think

 

[stats1]

Also people who say well the draft the draft??? They will leave the draft up to the scouts and whoever is left over. The GM isn’t the one making the picks. It’s on recommendation from the scouts

You could fill in Spezza or whoever to make the picks while you’re searching for a new GM and then move on from there.

 

[thewave]

Here is more from James Mirtle of The Athletic:

Is there even time to clean house at the very top, with only six weeks until the draft and free agency period begins?

If not, if you’re going with Shanahan into the next phase of major decisions, then the question becomes: Do you commit to Dubas on a new long-term deal, given there are potentially other organizations interested and driving up the price?

And, even if you do want to commit, does Dubas still want to stay?

It’s not exactly the league’s best-kept secret that Shanahan and Dubas have been somewhat at odds this season, something evident in the fact they haven’t watched many games together, a change from years past.

Is that schism deep enough to mean a GM change is coming for certain? I don’t believe so, no. This isn’t going to be about personality conflicts. But it’s also clear that keeping this front office together will be far more complicated than simply coming up with a modest extension offer for the incumbent.

Dubas, those close to him say, will want to be paid handsomely, especially if there are other offers from the likes of Pittsburgh, Calgary or even division rival Ottawa. And he will want greater job security and autonomy within whatever structure Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment settles on.

Getting the GM situation set quickly will be step one for the franchise. And it’s a huge one because all the other pieces are going to be connected to it.

That's some hack level stuff right there.

As if Shanahan hasn't been talking to people and getting feedback on future directions for the organization if Dubas is let go. At the very least he should have had meetings with Asst GM's and different people around the Hockey World and pick there brains.

If Shanny has no contingencies in place he should be fired too because that's just some next level incompetence.

 

[Racer88]

Does anyone remember what Kyle Clifford had to say about his first experience with the team when they lost to the CBJ's? He said the young players cared more about video games than winning in the playoffs...maybe he was right.

He was rIght then and he is right now

 

[Gabriel426]

If he’s not doing that at least then wtf is he doing. They pan the camera every 5 mins to Dubas reaction. And the way Dubas reacted tells me this is a guy under extreme circumstances. The people on here who think this guy is getting a new contract after he is shown flipping out on literally every call is bad. You can’t have a GM yelling at fans, you can’t have a GM screaming in the box. You can’t have a GM take 4 years to realize his philosophy was wrong. Dubas and Keefe are goners. Shanahan is on thin ice but he may have more support than we think

He is showing emotions, all GMs and Presidents do that. I don’t see anything wrong with that.

 

[stats1]

That is some atrocious reporting from mirtle…. You could name his sources literally on 2 fingers. I can’t stand the media in this city. Like for a big market it is legit in the f***ing dumpster

 

[TheGreenTBer]

I think you can make an argument for Dubas staying though I don't agree with it.

Keefe, absolutely not. There's no logical argument to keep him anymore.

 

[stats1]

It’s like every single person in this city go to the same people for quotes. It’s literally a monopoly.

 

[HEAVY DUTY]

That is some atrocious reporting from mirtle…. You could name his sources literally on 2 fingers. I can’t stand the media in this city. Like for a big market it is legit in the f***ing dumpster

wait, who are the sources?