Does dubas remain GM if the leafs get bounced by Florida?

[justashadowof]

If Dubas is getting bounced, it has to happen decisively. A new boss even if interim needs to be in place fast. There are critical decisions to be made in the next month and a half. There are 3 trade restrictions kicking in on the 3 young stars this summer.

Is there someone in the Leafs' front office who isn't a Dubas acolyte who can break free from Dubas' tunnel vision for this team's composition? Dubas seemed to have driven most of those sorts out of the front office.

What a happy coincidence for Dubas to have his own expiring contract leveraged against the looming changes to the young stars' contracts.

 

[I am Canadian]

Yes. You'd need a crystal ball to know this collection of players wouldn't work together when drafted and signed . He's not responsible for their in-ability to deliver in big moments. You didn't see people call this out against Washington or Boston the first time etc

He's more than made up for that in his quality in drafting and roster acquisition [Bunting for free, Samsonov for free, Gio on 900k deal, McCabe for 2M in cap for the next two years etc.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

And the infuriating thing is we had a bunch of fans here in HF that could see that 3 years ago. They could see the philosophy was deeply flawed. They could see that useful players were being let go.

Shame we had people here that could've saved ua

I agree, but that's the deeper issue: there are paid professionals in and around Dubas to advise him. Heck his own boss let him run with his flawed philosophy. I have no idea how Shanny can look himself in the mirror. He was part of winning teams. He knew what it takes to win in the playoffs. Why in the world did he sit back?

Yes. You'd need a crystal ball to know this collection of players wouldn't work together when drafted. He's not responsible for their unability to deliver in big moments.

He's more than made up for that in his quality in drafting and roster acquisition [Bunting for free, Samsonov for free, Gio on 900k deal, McCabe for 2M in cap for the next two years etc.

What are you talking about? "More than made up"? Every single thing is up in the air now:

Shanny, Dubas, Keefe, and the core. How do you see Dubas as a success story? Or even without any blame?

 

[I am Canadian]

I agree, but that's the deeper issue: there are paid professionals in and around Dubas to advise him. Heck his own boss let him run with his flawed philosophy. I have no idea how Shanny can look himself in the mirror. He was part of winning teams. He knew what it takes to win in the playoffs. Why in the world did he sit back?


What are you talking about? "More than made up"? Every single thing is up in the air now:

Shanny, Dubas, Keefe, and the core. How do you see Dubas as a success story? Or even without any blame?

This is the most successful Leafs team in the last twenty years. He can take some criticism for sure, but there's a reason that he would be in another GM job within weeks in the NHL. He's a great asset to have managing this team.

 

[GQS]

Marner's nmc is in 6 weeks as well.

Kyle Dubas is the worst thing to happen to Toronto in the entire history of the city.

LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!! I hope you're just joking.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

He may fix mistakes but let's not forget he wanted Foligno back. He signed Murray, he signed Simmonds for 2 years like he was some prize out there. The whole Holl thing. Mrazek - I think everyone knew Muzzin was on a huge decline.
To be fair he's done a lot of good things but it's just the wrong mix of core players and he doesn't seem willing to adjust

I think the whole organization reeks of "Niceness"....they want to win with mostly skill and added grit in the bottom 6...the problem is at the top of the lineup when they get bullied around and Management is so proud that we don't retaliate in scrums. It was obvious that FLA and TB knew that they could intimidate them with rough play and they did.

I am not saying fighting should be at the top of the list...but having some real pricks out there that are able to have mean streaks is extremely important. It just looks like they don't care because they are not able to play the style that needs to be played. The only 2 guys that were not afraid were Mo and Willy...

 

[Ianturnedbull]

This is the most successful Leafs team in the last twenty years. He can take some criticism for sure, but there's a reason that he would be in another GM job within weeks in the NHL. He's a great asset to have managing this team.

What's the reason? NHL teams want playoff futility?

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

I see the reality much different, but I respect your opinion.

I see an inexperienced GM think he can re-invent managing an NHL team, and think that there's a new way to do things. He signed 4 forwards and allocated 50% of the cap to them. He thought opposing teams would be spending time in the penalty box while his team scored at will in the playoffs. He thought that skill and soft stick checking would be the way of the future in the playoffs. He felt he didn't need any toughness. He and Lou signed off on having 2 terrible mentors (Thornton and Marleu) for TOR's young talent. Finally when it was all not working so great he changed last deadline: Acciari, McCabe, Schenn, etc.

I did like a couple of things he did: Giordano, ROR, Schenn, Acciari, and Samsonov. Sadly none of these character players are our core. Who knows whether Dubas will be around to see what might become of keeping ROR, etc.

You can't blame Dubas for not trying, but his philosophy was completely off the mark.

That's why people are pissed...the reinventing of the game angle. He also told people that the new group of RFA's are going to get paid from now on and that was just the reality of it. Uh..no...literally every team that had RFA's in those seasons signed much more reasonable deals. We were told a lot of stuff was changing as far as the playing style..the salaries...etc. The traditional team building route for playoff success was dead were told. The new way was going to work. It didn't and I don't think I want a guy who is that stubborn to rebuild the core. They are too loyal to guys who will jump ship at the first chance.

I have a feeling that MM is saying those asinine things because he secretly wants out of this media scrutiny...even though it was the same media that helped get him paid...funny how that works....

 

[Lemontree]

Yes. You'd need a crystal ball to know this collection of players wouldn't work together when drafted and signed . He's not responsible for their in-ability to deliver in big moments. You didn't see people call this out against Washington or Boston the first time etc

He's more than made up for that in his quality in drafting and roster acquisition [Bunting for free, Samsonov for free, Gio on 900k deal, McCabe for 2M in cap for the next two years etc.

WOW! His drafting? The team had 1 Dubas drafted player on the playoff roster. He more than made up for his many mistakes by getting a 3rd line winger, a solid starting goalie (on 1 year deal) 6/7th dman and a 5th dman for a combined cap hit of $5.6M.

I also encourage you to look at the draft capital that went out the door to acquire Gio and McCabe.

 

[justashadowof]

This is the most successful Leafs team in the last twenty years. He can take some criticism for sure, but there's a reason that he would be in another GM job within weeks in the NHL. He's a great asset to have managing this team.

This is called assuming the sale. There is zero evidence that Kyle Dubas is a high demand hockey executive other than the seemingly endless promotion of him in the mediasphere. I remember a time when (former failed Leafs' coach) Mike Murphy's name would always be promoted as a top candidate for an NHL GM job for a couple of decades. The dude never got a GM gig. His friends in the media couldn't make it happen. The rest of the NHL aren't blind. They see that Dubas inherited the elite talent here and built a soft as butter team. Why would he be in high demand? For drafting 1 player who made the playoff roster this year?

 

[Lemontree]

For the next 3 drafts (21 picks granted to each team) they currently hold the following picks:

2023 (3 total) - 1st round (Boston), 5th round (Leafs), 6th round (Leafs)

2024 (8 total) - 1st round (Leafs), 3rd round (Islanders), 4th round (Leafs), 5th round x2 (Leafs, Hawks), 6th round (Leafs), 7th round x2 (Leafs, Sens)

2025 (4 total) - 3rd round (Leafs), 5th round (Leafs), 6th round (Leafs), 7th round (Leafs)

We are slated to draft 4 times total in the first 3 round over the next 3 entry drafts. If the window was ever open it is surely closed now. Dubas completely failed in all aspects of this organization.

 

[hamzarocks]

I'd take a flyer on Chayka and a veteran Assistant.

Chayka is dubas if he was a 15 years old who just learned the sport of hockey when he got hired

He should have been beaten black and blue with how f***ing terrible he was for the coyotes

Absoule clown, terrible drsfting, cost them 1st and 2nd picks for draft breaches and poor trades

 

[Lemontree]

Chayka is dubas if he was a 15 years old who just learned the sport of hockey when he got hired

He should have been beaten black and blue with how f***ing terrible he was for the coyotes

Absoule clown, terrible drsfting, cost them 1st and 2nd picks for draft breaches and poor trades

Chayka and Dubas are both complete frauds that should never be in charge of any assets, sports related (draft picks) or real world assets (ie: money managers). Only reason why Chayka was exposed so much quicker than Dubas is because he didn't have a war chest like Dubas was handed (team full of young talent and money rich franchise).

Chayka and Dubas should pair up and run a crypto "company" that will go down in flames within a few years due to massive corruption and fraud.

 

[ToneDog]

If Dubas is getting bounced, it has to happen decisively. A new boss even if interim needs to be in place fast. There are critical decisions to be made in the next month and a half. There are 3 trade restrictions kicking in on the 3 young stars this summer.

Is there someone in the Leafs' front office who isn't a Dubas acolyte who can break free from Dubas' tunnel vision for this team's composition? Dubas seemed to have driven most of those sorts out of the front office.

What a happy coincidence for Dubas to have his own expiring contract leveraged against the looming changes to the young stars' contracts.

If they were smart and that is a big IF, they would have already started interviewing a successor in anticipation of moving on from Dubas. As such, I can see the firings start quickly.

 

[sunstersun]

I honestly think Dubas did an okay job this year.

The issue is hiring Keefe and not moving on sooner.

90% of leadership at the higher level is simply selecting the correct person. Select correct, life is easy, select incorrect, life is the Leafs the last 7 years.

 

[AllDay28]

Dubas wasnt acting like someone who was gonna be fired. He was acting like someone who is passionate about the Leafs. Showed more passion than half the roster.

 

[Mess]

The biggest mistake the Leafs made was replacing HHOF GM Lou Lam with a greenhorn GM with all the core 3 coming out of their ELC and needing new contracts.

Dubas got played and overpaid and his signings sent shock waves through the NHL and put the Leafs into Cap Hell and they've never recovered. NHL player agents poll voting Dubas the best GM to deal with is really good for players and agents, but really bad for team competitiveness.

The worst situation I can think of now that all these bloated contracts are finally running out, is having Dubas in charge of re-signing them to big raises and putting us right back into Cap Hell again.

Leafs wasted all these years of Cup competitiveness with these players in their prime. They got paid 1st and then told to earn it while good and succssful teams reward playoff success with new player contracts.

 

[3blizzard4]

The biggest mistake the Leafs made was replacing HHOF GM Lou Lam with a greenhorn GM with all the core 3 coming out of their ELC and needing new contracts.

Dubas got played and overpaid and his signings sent shock waves through the NHL and put the Leafs into Cap Hell and they've never recovered. NHL player agents poll voting Dubas the best GM to deal with is really good for players and agents, but really bad for team competitiveness.

The worst situation I can think of now that all these bloated contracts are finally running out, is having Dubas in charge of re-signing them to big raises and putting us right back into Cap Hell again.

Leafs wasted all these years of Cup competitiveness with these players in their prime. They got paid 1st and then told to earn it while good and succssful teams reward playoff success with new player contracts.

The rebuild in hindsight was for nothing.

A stupid failed experiment at the expense of fans who love this team. All for the stubbornness of this management.

 

[Mess]

LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!! I hope you're just joking.

Sadly he is not !!! July 1st 2023 Marner has a full NMC in the last 2 years of his contract beginning in 6 weeks.

All 3 of Leafs $11 mil players as of July 1st this year will be in full control and prevent any of them from moving against their wishes.

That makes this next 6 weeks crucial decision making time up to and including the entry draft to make changes to the core.

 

[JKG33]

And the infuriating thing is we had a bunch of fans here in HF that could see that 3 years ago. They could see the philosophy was deeply flawed. They could see that useful players were being let go.

Shame we had people here that could've saved ua

Yup. But instead the geniuses of this fan base held a crow eating event after 1 pathetic round win.

For 4.5 years we were ridiculed for saying Dubas wasn't it. This core wasn't it. And turns out... we were right damn near every single time

Yes. You'd need a crystal ball to know this collection of players wouldn't work together when drafted and signed . He's not responsible for their in-ability to deliver in big moments. You didn't see people call this out against Washington or Boston the first time etc

He's more than made up for that in his quality in drafting and roster acquisition [Bunting for free, Samsonov for free, Gio on 900k deal, McCabe for 2M in cap for the next two years etc.

Hey. It's me, the dude with the crystal ball

 

[Lemontree]

Yup. But instead the geniuses of this fan base held a crow eating event after 1 pathetic round win.

For 4.5 years we were ridiculed for saying Dubas wasn't it. This core wasn't it. And turns out... we were right damn near every single time


Hey. It's me, the dude with the crystal ball

I hated the Mrazek signing and Murray trade the second they happened and was very vocal about it on here and with my buddies. Both played out exactly the way you would expect them to if you had any knowledge of the players. Why is that so easy for a someone who works his day job in asset management, has no professional hockey experience and is just an avid fan of the Leafs who also watches a decent amount of other NHL games. I sure as hell don't think I am some hockey "genius" but I have been right more often than Dubas over the past 5 years........and No, I not using the advantage of hindsight to base my player evaluations.

 

[Trapper]

Dubas wasnt acting like someone who was gonna be fired. He was acting like someone who is passionate about the Leafs. Showed more passion than half the roster.

Technically I don’t think he can be fired.
His contract is up. If they don’t renew him, we search for a new GM.

 

[ToneDog]

Technically I don’t think he can be fired.
His contract is up. If they don’t renew him, we search for a new GM.

You can say we are not renewing him or you can fire him so he can start looking for a new job. I pity the Pens if they fall for this snake oil salesman.

 

[myleafs]

Well Dubas went to war for Keefe. Keefe should have been fired after the Habs

You can do 100 things right in titanic, but if you get the wrong captain, does it really matter?

For all his good work, Dubas really fu-ed up with Keefe

Especially considering Cassidy, Gallant and few other coaches

He did what he did and made it pretty clear he was succeeding with his choices or failing but either way was sticking to his plan. He bet on his way and lost. No grudges against this type of thinking, however its now time to pay the piper.

 

[Azail]

Looking at the goal scoring #'s of the Core 4

View attachment 708065

Those results indicate you were fortunate to win 1 of the 5 games when the other team only has to focus on 4 forwards, and your team can only manufacture 2 GF a game.

Tooooo much Cap $$$ in tooooo few players the #1 reason for Leafs demise again.

"We can and we will" should now be changed to "We tried and we failed" and lets move on from cap heavy strategy and build a more balanced team.

Regardless of cap hits. If any teams top 4 players do what the Leafs top players did this series, they would lose.

Think Edm gets anywhere near where they have been the last 2 playoffs without Drai and McDavid playing to the absolute top of their ability? Colorado wins the cup if Mack, Rantanen and Makar aren't all world? Pitt wins without Malkin/Crosby being Conn Smythe winners?

I would say the ONLY player this playoffs that actually played ABOVE their ability was Rielly. I thought he was outstanding. He showed another gear, I cannot really say the same about the rest of the big boys.

I think it is just obvious these 4 core players aren't good enough. That is really what it comes down too.